Do you agree with these statements?

[Maureen]

I came across this article and two statements in it got my curiosity. Please tell me if you agree with these statements. Do you believe these statement are true personally for you and do you believe your church (LDS) teaches this? Please elaborate if you can.

Christianity: Following Jesus in Word and Deed - LDS Newsroom

1) Jesus Christ — not Moses, Paul or Joseph Smith — is the object of Mormons’ devotion and worship.

2) For Latter-day Saints, being a Christian means being a disciple of Jesus Christ, loving and worshiping Him above all.

(The bold emphasis is mine.)

M.

[Vort]

1) Jesus Christ — not Moses, Paul or Joseph Smith — is the object of Mormons’ devotion and worship.

In the way it is presented, this is true. We most certainly do not worship prophets or apostles, past or present. We may praise and even revere them, but we worship the true and living God.

Some (e.g. Elder McConkie) have drawn a line of division between a more casual and inclusive definition of "worship" and what McConkie called "true and saving worship", the latter being reserved exclusively for the Father. For example, we do not pray to the Son, ever, unless he is physically and visibly standing before us. That method of worship is reserved for the Father alone.

2) For Latter-day Saints, being a Christian means being a disciple of Jesus Christ, loving and worshiping Him above all.

With the same caveat as given above, I would say this is also a true statement.

Some may suppose that the phrase "worshiping [Jesus] above all" suggests that we might indeed worship other things, just not as much as Jesus. This is word-play, though. "Worship" and "adore" mean to venerate, respect, feel affection for, hold in high esteem, treat as sacred, etc. We can apply those same words to spouses, children, friends, philosophical ideals, pets, and foreign food, but that does not suggest that we therefore worship them as we worship God, only a little bit less.

[LittleWyvern]

1) Jesus Christ — not Moses, Paul or Joseph Smith — is the object of Mormons’ devotion and worship.

Absolutely yes. I'm not sure how to elaborate on this too much other than this is, to me, a core part of Christianity in general. Here's a couple Book of Mormon verses that I think encapsulates what I'm trying to say better than I can:

And moreover, I say unto you, that there shall be no other name given nor any other way nor means whereby salvation can come unto the children of men, only in and through the name of Christ, the Lord Omnipotent.

And we talk of Christ, we rejoice in Christ, we preach of Christ, we prophesy of Christ, and we write according to our prophecies, that our children may know to what source they may look for a remission of their sins.

Worshiping something else that doesn't have the power to save us and forgive us for our sins makes no sense to me.

2) For Latter-day Saints, being a Christian means being a disciple of Jesus Christ, loving and worshiping Him above all.

I think I may have answered this question with the answer to the first question: it's part of believing that Christ is the only way we can receive salvation. And, yes, this is what I believe and this is what (according to my knowledge) the Church teaches.

[SanctitasDeo]

1) Jesus Christ — not Moses, Paul or Joseph Smith — is the object of Mormons’ devotion and worship.

2) For Latter-day Saints, being a Christian means being a disciple of Jesus Christ, loving and worshiping Him above all.

I do agree with the above statements. They are what I have always been taught by my parents and at church, and that is what I taught on my mission. Without Christ, there is no LDS Church. Thinking about the church without Christ makes no sense to me whatsoever.

Now, if you wanted to be picky, what Vort said about worshiping the Father is true. However, since the sentences there are trying differentiate between worshiping Christ and worshiping men or other things, they are entirely true.

[annewandering]

hmmm but since God and Christ are different people I would say we worship God, the Father above all others. He is the head of all.

[Maureen]

hmmm but since God and Christ are different people I would say we worship God, the Father above all others. He is the head of all.

The LDS church teaches that Jesus and Heavenly Father (God) are two separate beings. Therefore annewandering, does this mean that you do not agree with the two statements in the OP?

M.

[annewandering]

I do not agree that I dont worship anyone over Christ. I worship the Father over the Son. Prophets are not for worship. They are mortal men just like we are. Why would we worship them?

Being Christian does mean being a disciple of Christ.

Edited April 6, 2012 by annewandering

[Guest]

These kinds of things leave me wondering where the bear trap under the brush is. I think I'll just walk around the whole darn thing.

[Maureen]

...Now, if you wanted to be picky, what Vort said about worshiping the Father is true. However, since the sentences there are trying differentiate between worshiping Christ and worshiping men or other things, they are entirely true.

But do you think that the statements are also differentiating between Christ and Heavenly Father?

M.

[annewandering]

These kinds of things leave me wondering where the bear trap under the brush is. I think I'll just walk around the whole darn thing.

lol I see that same thing. Ok, Maureen, what is it you are trying to get at? :)

[Maureen]

These kinds of things leave me wondering where the bear trap under the brush is. I think I'll just walk around the whole darn thing.

My reason for asking is because I have had many discussions on this forum about how LDS view worshiping God and Jesus, and I have read many posts with LDS testifying on what they believe about worship and what the LDS church has taught about worship. So when I read the article from the LDS Newsroom, I was curious on how LDS members on this forum would read those statements - would you agree or disagree?

M.

[annewandering]

Interesting. I do not know why it was phrased like that but it was unfortunate phrasing. I worship God first, Jesus second. No one else third. :) Other than that I agree.

I admittedly am a nitpicker about words.

[Guest]

I worship God, the Eternal Father, and His Son, Jesus Christ. No one else.

[annewandering]

I worship God, the Eternal Father, and His Son, Jesus Christ. No one else.

Exactly!

[Traveler]

Are there "word" games being played? Jesus said that to know him is the know the Father. In fact we cannot respect one without the other - in truth one cannot be worshiped without the other. Trinitarians play this same game with different rules but in essence with the same result.

I have wondered about worship and asked what we do the constitutes worship. Again the covenant of the priesthood would indicate that part of our worship also means to accept those who are sent or that come to us in the name of the Father and/or the name of the Son.

If part of our worship is recognition of his "name" - would also play in others that have in truth taken upon them his name.

The Traveler

[Maureen]

Are there "word" games being played? Jesus said that to know him is the know the Father. In fact we cannot respect one without the other - in truth one cannot be worshiped without the other. Trinitarians play this same game with different rules but in essence with the same result.

What game are you referring to? What rules and what results are you referring to? Could you elaborate?

If part of our worship is recognition of his "name" - would also play in others that have in truth taken upon them his name.

Traveler, I'm lost here; what do you mean by this?

M.

[Blackmarch]

I came across this article and two statements in it got my curiosity. Please tell me if you agree with these statements. Do you believe these statement are true personally for you and do you believe your church (LDS) teaches this? Please elaborate if you can.

Christianity: Following Jesus in Word and Deed - LDS Newsroom

1) Jesus Christ — not Moses, Paul or Joseph Smith — is the object of Mormons’ devotion and worship.

2) For Latter-day Saints, being a Christian means being a disciple of Jesus Christ, loving and worshiping Him above all.

(The bold emphasis is mine.)

M.

Yes. The book of mormon, bible, doctrine and covenants, pearl of great price, and the leaders of the church have taught me this. I understand very well that everything we gain that is favorable to god is by his grace, as well as everthing that keeps us existing from second to second .and that it is only by christs sufferance that we can be given time and allowed to repent.

God calls individuals to assist in his work, and that is where the prophets come in, they and many more i highly revere, but to none of them i pray to nor believe tahat tney can save me in any way in themselves.

[pam]

I admittedly am a nitpicker about words.

Yes you are.

[HEthePrimate]

Do you believe these statement are true personally for you and do you believe your church (LDS) teaches this? Please elaborate if you can...

1) Jesus Christ — not Moses, Paul or Joseph Smith — is the object of Mormons’ devotion and worship.

2) For Latter-day Saints, being a Christian means being a disciple of Jesus Christ, loving and worshiping Him above all.

Well, yes, the Church certainly teaches us to worship God the Father and Jesus, and to be disciples if Jesus Christ and follow his example, at least in theory. That's the official teaching, but if you pay close attention in sacrament meeting and actually count how many times people mention Jesus in their talks, as opposed to, say, Joseph Smith or Thomas Monson, J.S. and T.S.M. might actually get more mentions.

I have a friend who was called to be a bishop a couple of years ago, and that's something he's tried to change in his ward. He's made a concerted effort to make sure that sacrament meeting focuses on Jesus Christ EVERY week, not just for special occasions. He instructs people called to give talks to talk about Jesus, and has introduced more scripture readings and music, as well.

In theory, Mormons have always worshipped Jesus and the Father, but in practice, you wouldn't always be able to tell from the emphasis in our meetings. But I do think things are getting better.

Peace,

HEP

[Backroads]

We indeed are a Church who loves its mortal participants. Which I think in many ways is good. I personally love connecting with prophets and general authorities who tend to be so human and accessible. That does not change the fact that we don't worship them.

Yes, a conscious effort to emphasize Heavenly Father and Christ might be a good idea.

[Traveler]

What game are you referring to? What rules and what results are you referring to? Could you elaborate?

Traveler, I'm lost here; what do you mean by this?

M.

The word game has to do with the words - "have no other G-ds before me" and “one G-d”. Anciently G-d was considered the Suzerain of the kingdom of heaven. A kingdom can have only one suzerain but like the power of attorney can be exercised by individuals with that authority – individuals acting in proxy for the Suzerain were also considered to be the suzerain.

We see this rather difficult for some to understand scenario playing out in scriptures – for example at the trial of Jesus over the question of Jesus being the king of the Jews; the response was that “we have no king but Cesar”. But was not Herod appointed King of the Jews by Rome? How then could Herod not be recognized as king since that was the title appointed by Cesar? Therefore in technical terms the Jews under the law of Rome had a king other than Cesar.

Trinitarians in essence play word games in claiming that there is only one king that is expressed as two (or more) persons that manifest themselves as either Herod or Cesar as circumstance requires. In essence LDS – play the one G-d word game based on authoritative representation. Technically there is more than one G-d but only one Suzerain (The Father).

The Traveler

[applepansy]

i worship god, the eternal father, and his son, jesus christ. No one else.

ditto!

[Traveler]

I worship God, the Eternal Father, and His Son, Jesus Christ. No one else.

What is worship? Is giving honor a form a worship? Do you honor your father and mother? If honor is not a from or worship - then how do you worship without giving honor to G-d the Father, The Son or Holy Ghost?

It seems to me that I worship many other than the Father, Son and Holy Ghost but that all my worship encompasses and includes the Father, Son and Holy Ghost such that what I worship is most embodied in and first as the Father, Son and Holy Ghost.

If someone wants to make an issue of me worshiping Joseph Smith then I believe they need to recognize what they also likewise worship others with no less infinity than I worship Joseph Smith and realize that for me the Father is foremost and first.

The Traveler

[LeKook]

Is it just me or is this just an issue of defining what each of us means by "worship"? For example, if I say I worship Heavenly Father, Christ, the Holy Ghost, or Joseph Smith, I mean:

I worship (honor, give homage to, revere, obey, give my life to) Heavenly Father;

I worship (honor, revere, obey, give my life to, emulate) Christ;

I worship (honor, obey) the Holy Ghost;

I worship (honor, respect, emulate) Joseph Smith

In other words maybe there's an apples and oranges thing going on here, LOL!!!

[Maureen]

...Trinitarians in essence play word games in claiming that there is only one king that is expressed as two (or more) persons that manifest themselves as either Herod or Cesar as circumstance requires.

Traveler, I'm not sure if I understand this statement in the way you are explaining it but in the way I'm reading it, I do not agree with this description. For one thing Trinitarians believe in one God and any one of the persons of the Trinity can be called God. The three persons of the Trinity have an equal relationship with each other. If I were to compare the relationship between Tiberius Caesar and Herod Antipas (rulers during Christ's crucifixion) I would say that Caesar was greater than Herod because he was Emperor of the Roman Empire while Herod was a Tetrarch of Galilee. This governing relationship cannot be compared to the Trinity relationship because God is God, he cannot be a lesser God and greater God at the same time, because he is the one and only God.

M.