breastfeeding at Church.

[Vort]

Isn't that every guy?

Hmmm. Discretion is often the better part of valor, and sometimes saying too little is much preferable to saying too much. But I will offer this thought: As a boy and young man, I never really fully understood the breast infatuation many boys and men seemed to have. In fact, I often thought it was more social conditioning and something said for show than a true reflection of deep feeling. I always thought the really interesting parts lay a bit further south.

As a married man, I have found myself not immune to the mammary charms, so I sort of get it a little bit. But my basic feelings have not really changed. I imagine that those from cultures where women commonly and openly show their breasts must find it strange, and probably laughable, that Western men tend to get all excited over them.

I suppose if women never showed their knees and it were considered immodest to do so, that female knees might likewise become a source of titillation (a word I dare not apply directly to the previous conversation).

[Gwen]

There are reasons a woman shouldn't have to hide to nurse her baby beyond comfort for mother and baby. By making it taboo our society has robbed themselves of education. Nursing is a learned social behavior, not instinctual, it was never intended to be hidden away.

What Our Primate Cousins Can Teach Us About Breastfeeding Becoming Mamas

[applepansy]

I loved nursing. I had a hard time nursing my boys and I was very disappointed when it had to end because I couldn't make enough to satisfy those big boys. With my daughter (and last baby) I was much more successful, yet I had to quit before I was ready again. I had to go back to work and pumping didn't work out.

If I could have another baby, I'd most definitely nurse again.

From a women's perspective I think its beautiful.

Jag, nursing can be very stressful for some women so I'm not surprised it made the PPD worse. I'm sorry she had a hard time.

Women need to be discreet when nursing in public. Its not that hard to do. When my baby sister was nursing very often we didn't know when the baby was eating. :)

[NightSG]

I don't know if it's common, but it's certainly true with some people -- Sister Vort, for example. When she was nursing, she would outeat me, back at a time when I still ate quite a bit. And she got very, very skinny. She would complain that her pants were baggy and her dresses didn't fit right any more (though that latter complaint mostly had to do with the bust being too tight).

Reminds me of a girl I dated several years back; she would always complain about not being able to find swimsuits with a top big enough and a bottom small enough--even in the separates, since the bottom was a junior size and the top was...well...impressive.

[MorningStar]

I usually see the mothers' lounge as an independent classroom or a room attached to the Relief Society room. Even if it is attached to the bathroom, as long as it's a separate space (i.e., you don't have to sit in the stalls), it is probably in compliance. Also, I don't see a problem with the changing table being in the mothers' room (as long as stinky diapers are disposed of in scented bags or in the bathroom) at all. I don't change my baby's diaper in the bathroom at home -- why should I in public if I have a comfortable and reasonable alternative?

The problem is, you're trapped in a small room feeding your infant when a toddler with a poopy diaper comes in right on cue with his mother and makes you want to hurl. The smaller the room, the worse the smell. Might as well stick me in a closet with them.

[MorningStar]

Where's that guy that's obsessed with breastages? I can't believe he hasn't shown up yet.

Some guy talked about how he likes "boobies" but it looks like it was deleted.

[MarginOfError]

Regarding the "if it bothers you, don't look" - can't that also be used to justify all kinds of other behavior that society generally deems impolite? "If you don't like to see me scratch an itch/pick my nose/break wind/belch/perform a variety of other bodily functions that we all need to do but no one wants to see, just turn around!" Even for such a socially acceptable function as eating most of us accept that there's a polite way and an impolite way to go about it; and churlish behavior is not justifiable by a demand that the offended person merely avert the eyes.

I'm not one to jump onto the "you're creating pornography for the ward deacons!" bandwagon; but it strikes me that Mom's obligation to at least try to nurse "modestly" is about as important as my obligation to look elsewhere if/when the nursing shawl slips.

If you can create a persuasive case that scratching an itch/picking your nose/breaking wind/belching is good public health policy, then I will be happy to support a platform encouraging people to do this openly and unashamedly.

I don't think women should have to cover up in order to breast feed. Let them decide for themselves.

I will concede, however, that I would look down on a woman who goes out of her way to show off that she's breastfeeding. I think a sports principle applies here: act like you've been here before.

[pam]

Some guy talked about how he likes "boobies" but it looks like it was deleted.

I believe she's talking about dash77.

[Guest Doctrine]

sorry I was trying to be funny but then again i can see why it was not.

my story is my wife and i have a baby and our two close friends have new babies and all three breast feed and they all are very strong women in there ways so there going to do what their going to do, I have no choice in the matter, Plus why would I stop them from doing what is good for the babies,

I took the classes with my wife and i was amazed at how awsome mommys milk is made for the baby, example, when the baby gets sick the milk will help them get better and many more cool things.

so that is why I love what I love.

[Bini]

I'm extremely extremely liberal when it comes to bodies, being naked and breastfeeding in public but I realise that not everyone shares my comfort zone. Absolutely, women should be free to breastfeed whenever and wherever and however they choose to. I can't understand why people get riled up over it, especially, when the mother takes precautions such as using a blanket or cover while nursing. You don't see anything. I can understand people feeling awkward if the mother whipped out a bare naked breast from under her top without a blanket or cover - I believe MOST people would feel it inappropriate, regardless, if it's a natural act or not. Again, I'm not one of those people, and I breastfed everywhere, and because I am not large chested, I was able to nurse without a blanket or cover and still remain modest. I don't recall any weird stares or anything. My experience was stress-free.

[Leah]

Here's the thing that has always confused me....

In the church, we are taught modesty. And for the most part, even people outside of the church don't generally run around flashing certain parts of their bodies to random strangers. I am not going to show my naked chest to my bishop or the RS president or even my best friends when I am NOT breastfeeding, so why do the standards change simply because one is breast-feeding?

I am NOT saying women should hide away in some awful bathroom or breastfeeding in public should be made illegal or anything remotely resembling that. I am just perplexed by the women (and I have known more than a few) who make no attempt whatsoever to be discreet and are almost (or truly are) defiant about their "right". Which right? The right to breastfeed or the "right" to bare their breasts in public? Why do the standards of modesty change simply because you are breastfeeding?

[Wingnut]

Leah, it sounds like you define modesty as a measure of how much skin is showing (and many people agree with that definition). I define modesty as an attitude. If my intent in breastfeeding in public is to make a show of it, or to deliberately bare my breast for all around me to see, then I'm being immodest. If I'm just trying to feed my baby, and that's all there is to it, how is that immodest?

[Vort]

Here's the thing that has always confused me....

In the church, we are taught modesty. And for the most part, even people outside of the church don't generally run around flashing certain parts of their bodies to random strangers. I am not going to show my naked chest to my bishop or the RS president or even my best friends when I am NOT breastfeeding, so why do the standards change simply because one is breast-feeding?

Because breastfeeding is not a prurient activity. It is what breasts were made for. That said, I think it's simple politeness in our culture for a nursing mother to put a small blanket over her shoulder and her baby.

But let's be clear that the root problem is that we have a voyeuristic culture that has hypersexualized the breast and looks for any reason to leer and drool. Nursing mothers must contend with modesty issues, not because there is anything inherently immodest about nursing a baby (there is not), but because our culture is warped.

[Guest]

Lessons I learrned in breastfeeding:

A loose t-shirt does the job. All I need to do is pull the shirt from the bottom just enough to get the baby to position. The shirt covers the breast that is not covered by the baby. The baby covers the midriff. If the baby doesn't make slurpy noises, it all looks like you're just putting the baby down for a nap.

No extra money or effort spent on nursing shirts, covers, etc. It's one of those things that is very convenient on the go with a baby tied to your hip. I literally went halfway around the world with just a backpack baby carrier that has a small pocket that held everything I needed for the baby in that 20-hour trip.

[Dravin]

I realize other's experiences might be different but I've never noticed anyone trying to flaunt their breast while breast feeding. Of course I suppose that means it's possible they were trying but they weren't very good at it. More often than not I hear breast feeding, not see it. It always seems that given enough time the topic tends to veer towards an excluded middle.

[applepansy]

Leah, it sounds like you define modesty as a measure of how much skin is showing (and many people agree with that definition). I define modesty as an attitude. If my intent in breastfeeding in public is to make a show of it, or to deliberately bare my breast for all around me to see, then I'm being immodest. If I'm just trying to feed my baby, and that's all there is to it, how is that immodest?

I agree with you to a point. Modesty is both. Its not just covering up and its not just at attitude. Its both.

So in the case of breastfeeding its modest to cover your breast while feeding your baby in public.

I have a problem with women who plop their breast out and pull a toddler on their lap with no attempt at covering. That's the attitude issue.

I also have a problem with people who get upset with a mother breastfeeding, discreetly covered, in public. That is another attitude issue.

Both are related to modesty. An uncharitable attitude is just as immodest as showing your breast unnecessarily.

[bluedreams]

I am NOT saying women should hide away in some awful bathroom or breastfeeding in public should be made illegal or anything remotely resembling that. I am just perplexed by the women (and I have known more than a few) who make no attempt whatsoever to be discreet and are almost (or truly are) defiant about their "right". Which right? The right to breastfeed or the "right" to bare their breasts in public? Why do the standards of modesty change simply because you are breastfeeding?

Because they're breastfeeding. Context is key. Honestly I don't know how people can find women with a baby breastfeeding as somehow sexually appealing or vain. Maybe if I were a man I'd get this better...who knows. And where modesty is described as prorpriety or properness, nothing seems more proper than feeding a child when they need sustenance. If your bearing your breasts in public to fit into a western standard of sexuality and to show yourself off....yeah, that's immodest. If your doing it to breastfeed a child, that's just simple sense.

I personally don't have a problem if women cover up or not while feeding. Though in church all the women I've seen in the US have covered unless in the nursing room (and sometimes even then). So it seems like pretty much a non-issue within that context. No woman I've seen have ever done it to flaunt themselves. Just sayin'.

With luv,

BD

[Just_A_Guy]

Because breastfeeding is not a prurient activity. It is what breasts were made for. That said, I think it's simple politeness in our culture for a nursing mother to put a small blanket over her shoulder and her baby.

But let's be clear that the root problem is that we have a voyeuristic culture that has hypersexualized the breast and looks for any reason to leer and drool. Nursing mothers must contend with modesty issues, not because there is anything inherently immodest about nursing a baby (there is not), but because our culture is warped.

But--forgive the scatalogical discussion--how about urination and defecation? These are also natural bodily functions (and it's certainly unhealthful to suppress them!) in which our otherwise "private parts" are doing what they were made to do. It's understandable, given the appurtenant unpleasant odors, that we would relegate such activities to a specific room in a structure. But then, why do we have individual stalls even within bathrooms?

Can our culture be said to be "warped" in this regard, since other cultures--the Romans, for example--had no qualms about using communal toilets?

We've more or less agreed that "sex appeal" is, to some extent, a social construct rather than a hard-wired, genetic reaction. Could the same be true with attitudes towards "grossness"?

Edited July 3, 2012 by Just_A_Guy

[Bini]

Our culture isn't necessarily warped. We grossly lack consideration for others. I think there's a simple compromise that both parties can meet. People should be more supportive of mother's breastfeeding, and mother's should acknowledge that while breastfeeding is a natural act, there may be some venues where it would be considerate to use a blanket or cover while nursing. Taaa-daaa!

[Just_A_Guy]

Pshaw. That's too logical, Bini!

[Vort]

No woman I've seen have ever done it to flaunt themselves.

I saw one recently on the cover of Time magazine.

[applepansy]

I saw one recently on the cover of Time magazine.

I agree Vort. She was most definitely did the photo shoot to flaunt.

[Hala401]

sorry if this topic has been done to death, but I dont come on here very often.

What is the norm and what is ok.

I heard a High Priest today in his 30's moaning about a mother breastfeeding her baby in the church foyer.

I had a lighthearted discussion with him and he said he also feels it inappropriate for mothers to breastfeed during sacrament, infact he was convinced that it would be in the Church handbook somewhere

I'm a bit shocked as the man has a wife and children.

So who's the norm here, me or him???

I have seen it done during sacrement meeting in the chapel, or in the foyer. It doesn't bother me at all. Heavenly Father sees it all. Wish I'd had the chance, but I was not Mormon.

[annewandering]

Coverings can be a problem. I had a couple of babies that would throw a hissy fit if anything went over their heads. Most didnt mind it for quite awhile but even they started to not like it. They wanted to look around not stare at material and they could be pretty stubborn about it.

I discovered the same thing Anatess was talking about. Tshirts, or any stretchy material was pretty easy to fit around things without actually covering the babies face. If gaps then discreetly placed fingers took care of that.

At least one of my kids would not stand for any of that though. She was my wolf cub baby. She rotated, particularly liking upside down. Yep her rear in my face. Anyway she was a challenge to be modest while nursing. lol. Ahh the good times. :)

[Leah]

Leah, it sounds like you define modesty as a measure of how much skin is showing (and many people agree with that definition). I define modesty as an attitude. If my intent in breastfeeding in public is to make a show of it, or to deliberately bare my breast for all around me to see, then I'm being immodest. If I'm just trying to feed my baby, and that's all there is to it, how is that immodest?

You're reading YOUR point of view into my words, and choosing to change them into something they are not. Your response represents your already chosen mindset, rather than attempting to understand what I said.

I could respond in kind and say...so....we can show as much skin as we like under whatever circumstances we like....as long as we do it with the appropriate "attitude"?