Military Service

[T41B]

Hi everyone I'm new to this site and I'm looking for some suggestions or advice on a current situation I'm in. I'm currently a member for the Canadian Army and one of my friends wants to join however because hes under 18 his parents have to sign his paperwork in order for him to get in. But they don't want to because there afraid it will affect him and the church so if anyone can offer me any suggestions or advice on what I can tell them or him about this situation would be great, Ive tried telling them my experience's but so far its had no affect and they still wont sign his papers and the Army is what hes looking to do for a career.

[pam]

How long before he turns 18?

[T41B]

Jan 20th 2013

[pam]

It's just over 6 months away. Then he could join without a parents permission right?

[T41B]

Yes but it takes 4-6 months for the papers to go through processing anyways and ive tried explaining that to his parents but they still refuse to sign them. And by them doing that he'll have to wait until after hes graduated to join which means hes gonna miss out on the opportunity to get work experiance from it and it also means he'll miss out on the training he could start right away after graduation

[pam]

It doesn't sound like he has much of a choice though.

[annewandering]

We gave in and signed the papers for our son. He is now a recovering alcoholic with severe PTSD. I say the parents have the right idea and should stick to their guns.

[applepansy]

Its important to honor our parents. Its even one of the ten commandments. He doesn't have long to wait. He should honor his parents, do what they ask. Then when he doesn't need their permission he can do what he wants. But I hope he will always honor his parents even while doing what he wants.

[applepansy]

Yes but it takes 4-6 months for the papers to go through processing anyways and ive tried explaining that to his parents but they still refuse to sign them. And by them doing that he'll have to wait until after hes graduated to join which means hes gonna miss out on the opportunity to get work experiance from it and it also means he'll miss out on the training he could start right away after graduation

In the Northern American continent we generally live well into our 80s. Your friend is 17. Even if he waits 6 months now, then another six months after he turns 18...a whole year. Lets even say he has to wait until he's 20 for the experience you're talking about. He will have at least 50-60 more years of life to get that experience.

Its also very likely that his parents know him better than you do. He should listen to them. Nobody in this world loves him as much as his parents do.

[rameumptom]

This is one of those times when a young person can learn two things: patience, and respect for his parents' wishes. One of the Ten Commandments tell us to "honor thy father and thy mother". To continually question and try them is not to honor them. Wait until he's eligible and then apply. That is what the vast majority of us who have or are serving had to do.

[annewandering]

It truly is a good thing to wait. The things that a soldier will see now are not for the young. Not anyone really but at least let them get as old as possible to give them more maturity to deal with bad stuff.

[ZionsRodeVos]

I was in the US Military. If the Canadian one is similar then there is plenty for a parent to worry about.

I was not very active in the church the first year or so of my time as active duty military and then I returned to the church and had to wait 2+ years to get out of the military so that I could go on a mission.

It seemed to me that there was a higher concentration of pornography, soldiers talking about sex, infidelity while forced to be separated from their wives, swearing, and other things with less chance of being able to avoid it than with other professions. Open squad bays where I had to keep my eyes down to avoid seeing things I didn't want to see. Cigarettes and alcohol easily available and shared on base.

By his parents not signing his papers they get just over 6 months to help him decide to serve a mission or at the very least to strengthen his testimony a bit more before he moves out. And since they know he is going into the military they can focus on preparing him spiritually for the temptations he will encounter there.

[Traveler]

I was in the US Military. If the Canadian one is similar then there is plenty for a parent to worry about.

I was not very active in the church the first year or so of my time as active duty military and then I returned to the church and had to wait 2+ years to get out of the military so that I could go on a mission.

It seemed to me that there was a higher concentration of pornography, soldiers talking about sex, infidelity while forced to be separated from their wives, swearing, and other things with less chance of being able to avoid it than with other professions. Open squad bays where I had to keep my eyes down to avoid seeing things I didn't want to see. Cigarettes and alcohol easily available and shared on base.

By his parents not signing his papers they get just over 6 months to help him decide to serve a mission or at the very least to strengthen his testimony a bit more before he moves out. And since they know he is going into the military they can focus on preparing him spiritually for the temptations he will encounter there.

I joined the US army just after my 17th birthday and completed my high school in the army. I did this in order to obtain special leave to serve a mission. With the draft and the Vietnam War this was the only way I could figure out to serve a mission when I was 19.

Not only did I experience all the difficult spiritual challenges of which you speak - I also encountered a lot of religious prejudice. Not just against a spiritual life style but very specifically intolerance of “Mormonism”. There were, however, two things helped me. 1. I was an excellent marksman. And 2. I tested off their charts and was offered the opportunity to attend West Point Academy.

T41B: If your friend intends to make a career of the Army – he should consider very strongly joining the army to become a commissioned officer. In the USA many colleges offer an ROTC program. Have your friend talk to the recruiters about starting college in a ROTC type of program. A quick Google indicates that Canada is working towards improving military relationships with civilian universities. This could give him a chance to work towards a commission as well as help him (and his parents) understand the honor and commitment of military service.

The Traveler

Edited July 5, 2012 by Traveler

[TStevieRob]

So I feel a few comments here might be a little misleading. Not to say they aren't true, but they do not tell the whole story, and so I feel compelled to give my experience.

Serving in the military is an honorable endeavor should you choose to do it.

First, there was a comment earlier about a parent that signed the papers when their son was 17, and now he has PTSD and suffers from alcoholism. Well, to that, I offer you this: I was 17 when my parents signed the papers, and I suffer from neither. And thats not to say I didn't see my share of combat, because I did, as an infantryman in one of the worst areas of Afghanistan. I keep in touch with most of my buddies, who are non-mormons, and do I know guy whose have those? Yes. But most do not. And most guys join under the same circumstances- 17 and straight out of high school. So that goes to show that serving doesn't necessarily mean you will turn into an alcoholic with psychiatric issues. It's about how you deal with those issues and experiences.

Second, serving as an officer is honorable, but so is enlisted. I am a mormon, and I managed to find other mormons in my area. I also knew plenty of other Christians (Baptists) who held pretty much the same morals (no drinking, no sex), so shame on previous posters for making it seem like everyone in the military is hard drinking, cigarette smoking sex maniacs, because they aren't. Their are men from all walks of life. Will you be exposed to those temptations? Sure. But, I can honestly say that when they came my way and I said why I couldn't partake, I NEVER got grief over it. They asked me questions (missionary opportunities anyone?) but treated me straight because I was their brother-in-arms. I love my "hard-drinking, cigarette smoking, sex maniac" Army buddies JUST AS MUCH as my Mormon brothers, because I know my Army buddies would be there to have my back before the dime hit the ground. No matter the toil or situation, they will be there. And thats honestly something I can't say about any other group of men I've met in my life- including Mormons.

So is serving in the military necessary for honor? No, absolutely not. But, there is a lot of honor in doing it.

It is my firm opinion you will meet some of the finest men and women you can think of. You will find men/women to spend time with that are just like you, whether other Mormons in your duty station area, or other servicemen with just the same morals- THEY EXISTS. I also pose this: we live in uncertain times, just getting out of one war but still with one raging. Men and women are dying every single day for an honorable cause. Is it right for Mormons to sit out a war that is being waged on their behalf (as all Americans) while people of other faiths or no faith die, just because their social habits are not the same? Is it right for Mormons to pursue their own religious interest while other put the interest of all above their own, and give their lives in the process?

[Irishcolleen]

TStevieRob,

I can't thank you enough for your service. My oldest daughter is planning on serving in the Navy after college. She's an Aeronautical Science major. Sometimes I worry about her future, but I know she will be surrounded by people who will have her back. Your words provided much needed assurance!

[mirkwood]

We gave in and signed the papers for our son. He is now a recovering alcoholic with severe PTSD. I say the parents have the right idea and should stick to their guns.

Has he sought help/counseling for his PTSD? That in all liklihood is the root of his alcoholism. The worst experience of my life was my time spent on the path of PTSD. I understand now why many use drugs and/or alcohol to kill off the PTSD, even if temporarily. Fortunately I never had a use for either and though I suffered for a great length of time, I was able to overcome it and am a better person for that experience. As odd as it may sound, I would not trade away that experience (PTSD) and the person I have become from that trial.

I hope he finds relief. It is a living/waking nightmare.

As a side note I was going to join the army at 17, do boot in the summer between Jr. and Sr. years of High School, reserves during my Sr. year and then go full time after graduation. Left to my own devices it is a decision I passed on and regret. The Lord had a different path for me which nearly 30 years later I can see quite clearly now.

Edited October 10, 2012 by mirkwood

[BadWolf]

His parents are looking at their last 6 months with their son

He is looking at his first 6 months of the rest of his life.

Few parents are very keen to lose their last few months with their children, whether its service, mission, or college. This is the time most parents set aside to really help their sons and daughters to transition, say goodbyes, bonding, planning, reminiscing. There's years and years of looking forward to & dreading this time. Very few parents will happily say 'See ya!' and sign.

Even with it MAYBE taking a few months to process, once you've signed, the call CAN come in a week. A day. A month. It puts everything into the chaos of waiting-not-knowing.

To give up the last few months as a family... I think you may not realize the gravity of your request, nor the longterm ramifications even if NOTHING snafus. (And in the military. That's situation normal for a reason.)

I joined the USMC @ 17.

My dad joined the USN @ 17.

My dad with his mum's blessing. Myself without my parents' blessing (I strong armed them in a really vile and regrettable way.) I would enlist again in a heartbeat. But I would go ABOUT enlisting honorably, instead of forcing their hand. That was a very low point in my history, what I did to my parents back then. I CANNOT underscore how much I regret the way I treated them, in order to get what I wanted.

Everyone's military exp is different. While you may have had an outstanding time, to date... Their fears are justifiable. And reasonable. It's an entirely different culture. Sexual culture -just as an example-, couldn't be more night and day, and is sooooo different even from sex-outside-of-marriage=okay/normal, that its out and out studied by scientists all over the world (The norm, for unmarried single people to often have hundreds of partners, sex as a sport, etc.). We had virgins in my unit (2), and 1 Mormon (one of my besties, who was not one of the virgins, btw., though he did start abstaining later... Oh. Everyone knowing your intimate things? Also standard. Privacy is almost nil.). I'm curious how he and our pal M's 2 year long running joke between them of "Whose is better? Magic hat (M was jewish) or magic underwear?' (Drove us all nuts) Would fly here on this forum? So, too, that those practicing abstinence often woke up with naked girls (do note the plural) in bed with them? Those who didn't drink given spiked drinks? Cigarettes. (Heck, if anywhere around bodies, sometimes the only way not to throw up is covering the smell with smoke).

And these were things done in 'fun'. By their friend who DID respect them, but were trying to 'help'. For those without friends, things actually CAN get ugly.

But they don't, always.

Because everyone has VERY different experiences.

I LOVED my time spent active duty. But his parents fears, and concerns are real and valid. (Along with a lot of others, beyond WoW.

You and he may never end up with 'helpful' friends. May never end up in a 'bad command', may never have to sacrifice your morals. Or you may. Or, worse, may CHOOSE to (totally different things). But these things are real and valid.

((While exUSMC, I've served with Canadians & Brits (& others). :) Good guys. And. Just. Not. That. Different. From. Down. Here!))

As I said, Id enlist again. I'd be thrilled for my son to enlist (and nervous!). But I would ALSO want those last few months!

[Blackmarch]

Hi everyone I'm new to this site and I'm looking for some suggestions or advice on a current situation I'm in. I'm currently a member for the Canadian Army and one of my friends wants to join however because hes under 18 his parents have to sign his paperwork in order for him to get in. But they don't want to because there afraid it will affect him and the church so if anyone can offer me any suggestions or advice on what I can tell them or him about this situation would be great, Ive tried telling them my experience's but so far its had no affect and they still wont sign his papers and the Army is what hes looking to do for a career.

He may have to wait till then. Pray about it, have him pray about it... if he really really wants to join, pray and fast.

In things like this the Lord should always come first.

I tried joining the army when i got out of highschool, ended up being 5 pounds underweight and a couple other minor... and they said come back in a year. Not too long after things started going down in the mid-east and soon military forces were being shipped out... at about the time I was leaving for a mission.

not saying it's wrong or right to join the forces at that age for LDS members, but it's something you certainly want to be careful, prayerful, and thoughtful about, and not rush into. What happened to me was in the end a blessing I believe- I was. not meant to be in the armed forces at that time. It may be different for others; my coiusin was pretty much the opposite of me he ended up in the military and it was the right thing for him, and he still got to do his mission.