another reason for not accepting the Gospel

[Bensalem]

Eleven asked me this same question not too long ago. See:

http://www.lds.net/forums/general-discussion/47629-prisionchaplin-may-i-ask.html

As for how my opinion has changed, it has improved. I am very impressed with the intelligence, openness, and kindness that gets expressed through these posts. Frankly, you have one of the best faith-based social sites going, in my not so humble opinion.

That is a great story. Did you live in a largely LDS school district or were the LDS just more active?

[prisonchaplain]

That is a great story. Did you live in a largely LDS school district or were the LDS just more active?

It was something of a fluke. The incident was nearly seven years ago. If I am not mistaken, only one of the five is LDS today. Fortunately, the gal who attempted to get elected based on a twisted view of diversity has long been off the political radar screen.

[bytebear]

I think a minister, paster or priest who converts to Mormonism loses more than just a salary. They also may lose quite a bit of control. Their charity work would likely be replaced with the churches welfare system, they would no longer be a full time preacher, and perhaps no preacher at all. They would not be the head of a congregation, and even if they were made bishop, it would only last a few years, and the bishop is more administrative, and you wouldn't be giving Sunday sermons. You enter a church with a strict hierarchy where you have little or no control over policy and programs. There are places for volunteerism, but generally you are called and do not get to choose your own place in the church. That may be difficult for pastors who are used to calling the shots.

[prisonchaplain]

I've heard rumors about churches where the pastors actually have some sense of control... :-)

[Guest]

The vast majority of "born again" "evangelical" "non-denominational" "independent" clergy do receive pay. Most denominational pastors do as well. A few groups have joined yours in relying on volunteer leadership.

If I am not mistaken two groups that pay some of the lowest supports are the Catholic church (which relies on celibate clergy) and the Salvation Army.

Pays can vary greatly, but most of our churches seem to pay pastors about the same salary as an experienced school teacher. Education requirements are similar, though pastors do not enjoy the same hours.

The tele-evangelists really distort the public's view of clergy. We work hard, and understand that most of our rewards will not be earthly. Nevertheless, compared to LDS bishops, we can certainly be thankful that we are supported in our callings, so that most of us are full-time.

If you ever want to ask an LDS "clergyperson" what they think of the benefits and drawbacks of being supported to do the ministry fulltime, you'll have to ask one of your military chaplains.

Technically, Catholic Priests don't receive pay - or what you would call a salary. They make a vow of poverty together with their vow of celibacy at ordination. They are sustained by the Vatican who gets their money from tithes and business dealings (just like the for-profit arm of the LDS organization). The Vatican supports the priests in a socialized form - to each according to their need.

There are parishes that have a more wealthy membership who voluntarily provide the rectory (where the parish priest lives) with direct material contributions that doesn't go to the Vatican usually in the form of furnishings for the rectory, food, clothing, and medicine for the rectory occupants and even social functions (like watching NBA games, etc.). But, priests don't choose where they get assigned to. They can make requests but ultimately, the Vatican tells them where they go - and yes, this is like the LDS Missionary too. So, all in all, the tidbit about Priests may hesitate to convert to LDS because they can lose their livelihood - I just can't see that happening in the Catholic Church. If anything, once they gain a testimony of the restored gospel, they would gladly jump at the chance of leaving the Catholic Holy Order so they can live a less restrictive life and still be able to serve in the same capacity that they desired when joining the Holy Order.

[skoshmom]

bytebear,

The office of bishop is not an administrative one mostly. Although yes, he probably does go through lots of paperwork, etc., his role is very spiritual indeed. Just about anyone could deal with the administrative aspect of it, but not just anybody could be called to the office of the bishop. In the years I have been a member of the church, it seems that just the right person was called to be bishop at that particular time (I know that there are some who have had different experiences probably). When I've needed spiritual advice, it was the bishop whom I sought out.

I believe that you could ask just about anyone who has been a bishop and they probably wouldn't remember the administrative aspect of it as much as the spiritual aspect of the things they've experienced durign their time as bishop.

[prisonchaplain]

On Catholic priests, I found this: Roman Catholic Priests

Looks like 15 years ago they made $12-30K per year, in the U.S., depending on which area they were in. Order priests (such as Jesuits, Franscicans, etc.) take a vow of poverty, and are provided a stipend. They also live in community housing with other brothers.

The above seems to confirm my basic idea that they receive some of the lowest pay of all full-time clergy.

Looks like the Salvation Army is very similar: Salvation Army Officer Salary & Benefits | eHow.com

Edited July 23, 2012 by prisonchaplain

[Guest]

On Catholic priests, I found this: Roman Catholic Priests

Looks like 15 years ago they made $12-30K per year, in the U.S., depending on which area they were in. Order priests (such as Jesuits, Franscicans, etc.) take a vow of poverty, and are provided a stipend. They also live in community housing with other brothers.

The above seems to confirm my basic idea that they receive some of the lowest pay of all full-time clergy.

Looks like the Salvation Army is very similar: Salvation Army Officer Salary & Benefits | eHow.com

This still doesn't address the TECHNICALLY. If you call the money you give your child a salary instead of an allowance, then okay, it's a salary.

[prisonchaplain]

Anatess...you have firsthand knowledge, and mine is 2nd-hand. I think we both agree that priests aren't in it for the money.

[Traveler]

Anatess...you have firsthand knowledge, and mine is 2nd-hand. I think we both agree that priests aren't in it for the money.

I think we can say some priests or many priests are not into such positions for taxable income. However, history has demonstrated on many occasions that many priests have abused their unique "status" and position - such that many well studied thinkers feel that "organized religion" has been more hurtful than helpful.

Because of liberties misused in the religious community with malicious intent towards the scientific community there exists a rift that many religious priests believes to be the sole responsibility of the scientific community - therefore all Scientific truths are rejected unless there is some way it can be exploited for a predefined religious purpose.

From your tag line - power and even perhaps influence over others can be as captivating and problematic - or even more so - than just money itself.

The Traveler

[Guest]

Anatess...you have firsthand knowledge, and mine is 2nd-hand. I think we both agree that priests aren't in it for the money.

If they are... what were they thinking??? A lemonade stand is more promising.

PC, do you get a salary? Or do you get a portion of tithes from your congregation?

[prisonchaplain]

I work for you Anatess. Like the military, federal chaplains are government workers.

[Guest]

I work for you Anatess. Like the military, federal chaplains are government workers.

OOOHHH!!! So, I can boss you around!

Wait... there are Catholic prison chaplains too, aren't there? I didn't know they get paid by the government. I thought they get paid by their own denomination to volunteer at prisons... goes to show how ignorant I am of US prisons and the work of chaplains. I am super glad to know you, PC!

[prisonchaplain]

OOOHHH!!! So, I can boss you around!

Wait... there are Catholic prison chaplains too, aren't there? I didn't know they get paid by the government. I thought they get paid by their own denomination to volunteer at prisons... goes to show how ignorant I am of US prisons and the work of chaplains. I am super glad to know you, PC!

Why do I think you'd be quite excellent at bossing chaplains around???

You are actually half right. Many federal chaplains are religious priests (or order priests). Their salaries go to the order, and they live on a stipend. Priests who are under the authority of a diocese do receive their salaries, and give a portion to the church.

[mordorbund]

Eleven asked me this same question not too long ago. See:

http://www.lds.net/forums/general-discussion/47629-prisionchaplin-may-i-ask.html

As for how my opinion has changed, it has improved. I am very impressed with the intelligence, openness, and kindness that gets expressed through these posts. Frankly, you have one of the best faith-based social sites going, in my not so humble opinion.

Huh, I thought you wanted to know more about this mormon "spirit prison" thing to ensure job security. Surely if there's mormon missionaries on the other side, there can also be AofG clergy at work as well (and knowing human nature, it's almost a never-ending cash cow).

[AnthonyB]

Are there LDS prison chaplains in the US?

[Suzie]

Are there LDS prison chaplains in the US?

Yes.

[Traveler]

Are there LDS prison chaplains in the US?

yes and they get paid the same as other prison chaplains.

The Traveler

[circusboy01]

bytebear,

The office of bishop is not an administrative one mostly. Although yes, he probably does go through lots of paperwork, etc., his role is very spiritual indeed. Just about anyone could deal with the administrative aspect of it, but not just anybody could be called to the office of the bishop. In the years I have been a member of the church, it seems that just the right person was called to be bishop at that particular time (I know that there are some who have had different experiences probably). When I've needed spiritual advice, it was the bishop whom I sought out.

I believe that you could ask just about anyone who has been a bishop and they probably wouldn't remember the administrative aspect of it as much as the spiritual aspect of the things they've experienced durign their time as bishop.

One of the reasons most Bishops do such a good job is When they have hands laid on them to ordain them to the office of Bishop, they are also given the power of discernment.( the ability to judge well.) Brother Ray

[prisonchaplain]

Huh, I thought you wanted to know more about this mormon "spirit prison" thing to ensure job security. Surely if there's mormon missionaries on the other side, there can also be AofG clergy at work as well (and knowing human nature, it's almost a never-ending cash cow).

Nah...I figured if y'all were actually right, then in the afterlife I'd have three or four choices of CK-likely posters, and I'd grab their coat tails, just as they were heading in. In the spirit of maintaining good friendships, I will not disclose who those 3-4 are.

[prisonchaplain]

Are there LDS prison chaplains in the US?

I know that you were told the answer is yes--and that they get the same pay as any other chaplain. However, I'm guessing that there are very few LDS prison chaplains. My internet search found only this article:

Mormonism-Unveiled: Fact Vs. Fancy: Catholic And LDS Prison Chaplains Hold Forth On Utah's Upcoming Execution Of Ronnie Gardner; LDS Doctrine On The Fate Of Murderers (note that while the name may sound like it could be an "anti" site, it self-describes as a "Pro-LDS" site, run by a single person, who is careful to say he speaks for himself).

Military chaplaincy is far more common. Also, I believe more LDS members are entering hospital chaplaincy. However, I have yet to meet an LDS correctional chaplain.

[beefche]

I think that there are people called to serve as advisors to LDS members in prison. My best friend's parents were called in Colorado to serve those members in prison.

[prisonchaplain]

Our LDS volunteers are called by the stake.

It could be that there just are not very many active LDS serving time, so the need for LDS prison chaplains is not evident. Our volunteers probably have more curious non-members attending their studies than they do active members.

[beefche]

Yes, I do believe it was a stake calling for them. I imagine it depends on the state. I'm going to guess that Utah has more LDS prisoners than Washington.

And my friend's mom told me that they had a few non-members attend the meetings.

[bytebear]

I think that there are people called to serve as advisors to LDS members in prison. My best friend's parents were called in Colorado to serve those members in prison.

This was a program that the church started in the late 60s, early 70s. The First Presidency wanted a program where they could reach out to members who might otherwise not be able to have regular Home Teachers, or who just fell through the cracks for various reasons. My mother was one of two women on the General Board who created the program.