Step family/ sealing question

[MichelleHubbart]

So I am currently re-married and was never sealed to my first husband. My current husband and I are ready to be sealed. I have 3 children from a previous marriage. Myself and my ex are in good standing with each other. I would like for my 3 children to be sealed to myself and their step dad. My ex will most likely give verbal or written permission if requested. I have been told by my bishop that their step dad will have to adopt them which would mean their real dad would have to sign over his rights. I don't see how that could be the Lord's will. Especially if our religion revolves so much around the family. Also an adoption would take a financial toll on us right now which I can't see that as being the Lord's will either.

I could really use some detailed information here. If it is possible for us to be sealed together what steps do I need to take EXACTLY so that I can make this happen. Who do I talk to if not my bishop. Stake president? Temple president? What are the key words I need to use?

I realize that what is most important is for the children to be sealed to their spouse when they are ready but in the mean time it has been my dream forever to find a worthy man who is willing to be sealed to us all and now I've got one <3

Please advise...

[Bini]

My husband and his brothers' biological father signed over his rights so that their step-father could adopt them and be sealed to them. My husband is estranged from his biological father but a couple of his brothers have remained in touch with him. I hadn't thought of this situation in the light that you are doing so. I am interested in knowing, too, regarding one father giving up his parental rights (one which might be a good father) so that another may resume parental responsibility.

[Anddenex]

If I am understanding the instructions correctly also, your Bishop is right. Their step dad will have to adopt them, and their real dad would need to sign over rights.

If you have been looking this whole time, then you will need to take the steps the Lord requires, which have been given by your Bishop.

[MichelleHubbart]

Can you please tell me where this information comes from. And if what you are saying is the case I am wondering why a church (or the Lord) would request that a father sign over his rights to his children. Taking into consideration all of the legalities of the situation including child support and health insurance and the fact that he does not want to give up his children. And am I mistaken or have I heard that mother's can give permission for their children to be sealed to their step-mothers? I suppose this is one more way that a man and a woman are different in our faith?

Also just because a bishop says something is so does not necessarily make it what the Lord requires. A bishop once told my sister that she had to sit in the front row of the chapel for sacrament meeting because "that's where all the sinners sit." LOL

BTW my intention is not to sound bitter toward you, Anddenex, this is just supper frustrating for me and I have been told to continue to have faith and put my faith in the Lord, yet feeling like I am not getting anywhere. But I will give the temple president a call and see what he says. Today was Monday and the temple is closed Of course, I fasted a prayed before I called, forgetting that it is Monday LOL well the Lord knows my heart and my sacrifice at least.

I will follow up on this thread and let everyone know what my temple pres says for those who may be having the same issues I am. Surely all is not lost. I will go to the first presidency if I must.

[Vort]

Also just because a bishop says something is so does not necessarily make it what the Lord requires. A bishop once told my sister that she had to sit in the front row of the chapel for sacrament meeting because "that's where all the sinners sit." LOL

I take it your chapel has an exceptionally large front row.

[classylady]

Unless the policy has changed, I was under the impression that adoption is not necessary. This is what I heard was necessary, assuming the children are minors: The biological parent will need to write a letter of consent. The letter will need to state the children's full names, the name of the step-parent and parent the children are to be sealed to, and the name of the parent giving consent with the signature of the consenting parent.

You can call the temple, and they should be able to advise you.

Edit: My thought is: a parent doesn't need to give up their parental rights in order for children to be sealed to the other parent and step parent. But, they do need to give permission in order for it to happen.

Edited November 13, 2012 by classylady

[classylady]

If I am understanding the instructions correctly also, your Bishop is right. Their step dad will have to adopt them, and their real dad would need to sign over rights.

If you have been looking this whole time, then you will need to take the steps the Lord requires, which have been given by your Bishop.

Anddenex, unless the policy has changed, stepchildren do not need to be adopted by the stepparent. The biological parent will need to give permission (a letter of consent). In the letter the full names of the children will need to be listed, the names of the parent and stepparent the children are to be sealed to, and the name of the biological parent giving consent with their signature.

Edit: I'm assuming the children are minors.

Edited November 12, 2012 by classylady

[MichelleHubbart]

Bini, I will keep you posted. I will be calling my temple president tomorrow. Pray for good news :)

[Anddenex]

Anddenex, unless the policy has changed, stepchildren do not need to be adopted by the stepparent. The biological parent will need to give permission (a letter of consent). In the letter the full names of the children will need to be listed, the names of the parent and stepparent the children are to be sealed to, and the name of the biological parent giving consent with their signature.

Edit: I'm assuming the children are minors.

Correct. However, I assume it would depend also on the meaning of "legal custody". Does a stepparent need to adopt a child to have "legal custody"? If so, then yes, the stepparent would need to adopt the child before they could proceed with a sealing.

Thus, it would vary from couple to couple. For example, if a stepparent has legal custody, but the child is not with them the majority of the time, then they are not able to be sealed. I know of a couple who currently switches off with their children every other week. In this situation if she were to remarry, her children could not be sealed to her new spouse.

If the condition above is met, then they also would need written consent as you have suggested.

Both conditions must be met in order for the stepparent to be sealed to the children.

Also, if any of your children are over 12 years old, male, then they must hold the Aaronic Priesthood to be sealed.

EDIT: I am not familiar with all legal terms, however for those who are in law, does "Joint Custody" also define that one spouse has legal custody?

Edited November 13, 2012 by Anddenex

[MarginOfError]

Anddenex, unless the policy has changed, stepchildren do not need to be adopted by the stepparent. The biological parent will need to give permission (a letter of consent). In the letter the full names of the children will need to be listed, the names of the parent and stepparent the children are to be sealed to, and the name of the biological parent giving consent with their signature.

Edit: I'm assuming the children are minors.

It's been over a year since I've had access to the proper handbook for this question, so I'm going off of memory. What I recall is that children may only be sealed to either the biological or adoptive parents. I do not believe that your children will be able to sealed to you and your husband unless your husband adopts them.

There is no doctrinal reason for this policy. It is purely legal. The Church does not allow itself to become entangled in family affairs that can go sour (imagine a parent filing in court over his spouse imposing religious values on his children that he did not support--I've seen it personally before). The safest legal position for the temporal organization of the Church is to just stay out of it.

Also, this discussion is only relevant to minor children; adult children are not sealed to parents unless one of the parties is being sealed by proxy

Edited November 13, 2012 by MarginOfError

[Anddenex]

It's been over a year since I've had access to the proper handbook for this question, so I'm going off of memory. What I recall is that children may only be sealed to either the biological or adoptive parents. I do not believe that your children will be able to sealed to you and your husband unless your husband adopts them.

There is no doctrinal reason for this policy. It is purely legal. The Church does not allow itself to become entangled in family affairs that can go sour (imagine a parent filing in court over his spouse imposing religious values on his children that he did not support--I've seen it personally before). The safest legal position for the temporal organization of the Church is to just stay out of it.

Also, this discussion is only relevant to minor children; adult children are not sealed to parents unless one of the parties is being sealed by proxy

My last comment is a paraphrase from Handbook 1.

[jayanna]

Michelle, you will have to let us know what the temple says about it. I did have this sort of situation myself. I had two children with my first husband and was divorced about the same time I joined the church. Later I met my second husband. We did get sealed to each other because I felt we would need the blessings from the sealing in order to overcome the huge obstacles in the way of getting the children sealed to us.

After much much much prayer and about 5 years of waiting my first husband did sign papers disolving his parental rights, and my second husband adopted them. Since the adoption was uncontested, it cost only $2000. (We had actually saved up more than that while waiting.) We were immediately sealed. I had more than the sealing (though it is the most important thing really) that I was worried about. I was also preparing to have my second heart surgery, so I did not consider any other method of ensuring our eternal family. I was sure that their biological father would use them to collect social security benefits if I passed away during the procedure. Adoption was the only avenue that I was willing to consider for them. I don't know if there is another way.

While my situation was very different considering the motivations of my first husband (he was eager to avoid paying $17,000 in back child support), I do know that whatever qualifications the Lord has set before you, they can be overcome and you can be sealed. He would not ask of you any thing that you could not do with His help.

I do know that if you have any children over the age of 8 they will need their baptism certificate. You will also likely need their birth certificates.

[classylady]

adult children are not sealed to parents unless one of the parties is being sealed by proxy

Adult children may be sealed to a parent and a step parent. It does not need to be done by proxy. My DIL did this. She is sealed to her mother and her stepfather. She was already an endowed adult when her mother was sealed to her stepfather. She chose to be sealed to them at the time they got sealed.

I was able to attend. Very special occasion.

Edited November 13, 2012 by classylady

[georgia2]

I've never heard this either. The only thing necessary is for the parent to give permission for the sealing. (Most wont). If the adoption thing is right, it sure is different than I was told!

[nbigler4]

Sorry to bring up a dead thread...

MichelleHubbart -  what ever came of this? 

I am exactly in this same position, but reversed. My ex is getting sealed in the temple and wants the kids sealed to him. He is the custodial parent. I had the bishop come over tonight and explain some things to me, he did read exactly what MarginOfError said-

On 11/12/2012 at 3:30 AM, MarginOfError said:

 

But what I'm not understanding is that if the kids are sealed to their father and then to her, their step mom, do I for sure need to give up my parental rights legally in order for this to happen?? Or does it just mean that my kids cannot then later be sealed to me in the future?

[pam]

59 minutes ago, nbigler4 said:

Sorry to bring up a dead thread...

MichelleHubbart -  what ever came of this? 

I am exactly in this same position, but reversed. My ex is getting sealed in the temple and wants the kids sealed to him. He is the custodial parent. I had the bishop come over tonight and explain some things to me, he did read exactly what MarginOfError said-

But what I'm not understanding is that if the kids are sealed to their father and then to her, their step mom, do I for sure need to give up my parental rights legally in order for this to happen?? Or does it just mean that my kids cannot then later be sealed to me in the future?

You probably won't get an answer.  She hasn't been to this site since November 2012.

[nbigler4]

Right. I guess I was just hoping someone else had some insight on the topic.

[Just_A_Guy]

The way I read it is that it would *not* terminate your parental rights, legally speaking.  But theologically, the clear meaning is that "in the eternal scheme of things stepparent, not natural parent, is the child's true parent".  And there may be psychological repercussions for the way the child views the natural parent thereafter; which repercussions/attachment issues might be considered probative if a court thereafter is considering a parent's petition to involuntarily terminate the other parents' rights.

I know it's poor form to rip on a poster who is no longer participating; but I don't understand why the OP is so outraged about the concept of the church asking her to terminate her ex's parental rights legally when that's exactly what she's trying to do spiritually.  Perhaps I'm jaded for professional reasons, but it strikes me that the OP may be trying to get what she wants without interrupting the golden flow of child support dollars (stipulated stepparent adoptions aren't THAT expensive, and speaking as a lawyer, they are pretty easy).  To that, I would reply that part of what creates the qualitative aspect of the parent-child relationship is the material sacrifice that the parent has made in actually supporting the child rather than shunting that burden off onto a third party.  IMHO her new hubby needs to either man up and provide for the kid he claims to want, or else raise his own eternal offspring and quit trying to poach someone else's.

Sealing, in my understanding, is a lot more nuanced and involves a whole lot more than who will "be with" whom in the eternities; but even so, if someone came asking my permission to seal my kids to someone else my immediate answer would be "aw, HECK no!!!!!"

Edited July 25, 2016 by Just_A_Guy

[pam]

I've deleted the posts that were direct quoting from Handbook I.  They aren't allowed on this site.