ACLU sueing Utah school for restricting access to a book

[RMGuy]

Utah school district sued over restricted access to lesbian family book - Yahoo! News

This one is kind of interesting, in that I am a little torn on which side of this I find myself. On one hand, I understand parents not wishing their elementary school children having access to the material, on the other hand, I'm a little concerned when any group attempts to restrict availability to information that others can read. Hmmm

-RM

[Vort]

Utah school district sued over restricted access to lesbian family book - Yahoo! News

This one is kind of interesting, in that I am a little torn on which side of this I find myself. On one hand, I understand parents not wishing their elementary school children having access to the material, on the other hand, I'm a little concerned when any group attempts to restrict availability to information that others can read. Hmmm

How you or any other leftist can be upset to any degree about this escapes me, except for being upset that some nutcase is suing the school district. Shall we make sure that Playboy and Mein Kampf are available on the elementary school shelves, too?

[RMGuy]

Leftist? Moi? You REALLY don't know me...lol.

Doubt I would go with playboy, but Mein Kampf should be on the selves of a library if we really believe it is a place of education...and the Communist Manifesto, and The Prince, and lots of other books as well.

-RM

[pam]

In an elementary school?

[Vort]

Leftist? Moi? You REALLY don't know me...lol.

Doubt I would go with playboy, but Mein Kampf should be on the selves of a library if we really believe it is a place of education...and the Communist Manifesto, and The Prince, and lots of other books as well.

We're not talking about "a library", RM. We are talking about an ELEMENTARY SCHOOL library.

This whole situation is utterly predictable. Forty years ago, Democrats vociferously insisted that they had no intention of establishing or normalizing homosexuality -- just another lie from those darn Republicans. Twenty years ago, the homosexual community, now openly supported by that same Democrat party, insisted that they had no intention of recruiting children or normalizing their "lifestyle", and that all they wanted was for the law to leave them alone and let them live in peace. How many people believed these lies? Sadly, a great many, some of whom appear to be posting to this list.

[jerome1232]

I don't see what's wrong with *behind the counter with parent approval* only in elementary school.

[pam]

I don't see what's wrong with *behind the counter with parent approval* only in elementary school.

How many parents do you know that are always there at the school when their children's classes have library time? Uhhhh probably zero.

[Backroads]

I'm kind of torn on this to... after pondering it for a bit, I'm on the side of the school as I think it and the community it supports have a right to make decisions on its library books. Is this just one mother making an outcry? She'd have to get more people behind her for me to consider a different opinion.

Though, for the record, Patricia Polacco is one of my favorite children's book authors.

[jerome1232]

How many parents do you know that are always there at the school when their children's classes have library time? Uhhhh probably zero.

What information do you have that says they must be physically present to give approval?

[jerome1232]

Ah, here it is, permission slip.

Parents were informed by letter of the restricted access after a district panel voted 6-1 in favor of requiring permission slips to check out the book

[Guest]

Yeah, a public library and an elementary school library need to be treated completely differently. I go to the public library with my kids, partly to watch and monitor what they're taking out (since they could easily and unintentionally grab something I wouldn't approve of). At the school library, I'm at the mercy of the teacher and librarian, both of whom may or may not share my values.

This shouldn't even be an issue. To me it seems like a gay-agenda-drama-pushing-made-up issue.

[Guest]

Take the book out of Elementary School and put it in the County/City Library.

[Anddenex]

I personally feel this is an easy decision. If it comes from the ACLU, a person 99% of the time with any morals should take the opposite view.

[Vort]

I personally feel this is an easy decision. If it comes from the ACLU, a person 99% of the time with any morals should take the opposite view.

Reactionary though this may appear, it is unfortunately true.

[RMGuy]

Would you fee the same way if the book behind the counter was a Book of Mormon Stories (The illustrated Children's reader) in a public elementary school?

I wasn't being snarky in my original post it is one that I am struggling with a bit since I can see both sides.

-RM

[Guest]

I would be fine with parental permission being required for a grade-schooler to read the Book of Mormon stories, or the Qaran, or the Bible, even. In elementary school, parents ought to have the right to know and have some control over what their kids are taking in.

There was a Wiccan bible in my high school's library, in a very conservative area. But that's high school.

[MarginOfError]

I think the stipulation of parental permission is a good compromise. Not that it will help much. Now any kid that has parents willing to sign the permission slip will become suddenly popular as all the kids in his or her class will want to see what all the fuss is about. That book will be passed around at recess for sure.

[RMGuy]

Well that's one way to get kids to read........

[jerome1232]

I think the stipulation of parental permission is a good compromise. Not that it will help much. Now any kid that has parents willing to sign the permission slip will become suddenly popular as all the kids in his or her class will want to see what all the fuss is about. That book will be passed around at recess for sure.

I think you are out of. touch with what elementary aged kids do at recess

[Traveler]

I cannot believe that we have become so upside down with rights that we will not let communities have input into their local schools. Heaven forbid that public schools reflect the morals of that community. Woops, I am sorry "heaven" is a religious term - I must be censured!

We do realize that religion is censured in public schools? As a side note - can anyone explain to me how a student can have a realistic grasp of history without basic understanding of religion or the opposition to certain religious doctrines?

No wonder that the USA has the worst public schools of any industrialized nation of our age.

The Traveler

[Vort]

Home schooling. It's the way of the future. (Unless you're German.)

[Anddenex]

Home schooling. It's the way of the future. (Unless you're German.)

I have been trying to invite my wife to Home School since my first born was 3. I have been unsuccessful thus far.

Sometimes I really hate moral agency ... it is no good when it doesn't follow my supreme intelligence ... and she doesn't want to listen.

P.S. For my stickler readers, the last statement... yes it was a joke, meant to be taken as such. Feel free to click the laugh button.

[Guest]

It's not for everyone. It's never felt right for us. I'm sure you've heard this argument, but if all of the good influences are removed from schools, what happens to the rest of the kids?

If we lived in a more liberal area, we might get a different answer. Around here, though, the biggest problem in our schools is lack of funding.

[Vort]

It's not for everyone. It's never felt right for us. I'm sure you've heard this argument, but if all of the good influences are removed from schools, what happens to the rest of the kids?

If it's not right for you, then don't do it. But I reject the argument you mention. I don't send my children to school for the benefit of other people's children. The school exists for MY CHILDREN'S benefit, not vice versa. If it doesn't benefit my children, I won't sent them. There is simply no other reasonable course of action.

[Sister_N]

I believe that in order for children to be encouraged to make their own righteous decisions (with parental guidance and support) that they need to be allowed to have some access to materials that contradict how they and their families may live.

If a child grows up knowing only one way of living (be that 'traditional family values, abstaining from alcohol or swearing) how can they decide for themselves whether that is the right way to live. Furthermore how can they reach out to people to help them 'see the light' if they do not even know what they believe or why the live/act in the ways they do.

I believe such books should be available to children (with correct supervision and explanations) the same way as books on other cultures and religions should be. So that other peoples life choices can be explained to children. I understand we are talking about elementary school children here, but young minds are the most open and willing to accept differences.