Another Tithing Question

[Guest ArchangelKid]

Hello, so here is another tithing question. It was my mom's birthday about a month ago. I did what I usually do. I got my paycheck and gave it to her to deposit to her account, that was my gift to her. Do I have to pay tithing on that money even though I didn't use it? I'm a recent convert so I'm using that as an excuse for the dumb question.

[Vort]

I would.

[BadWolf]

I would, as well.

I buy lots of presents with my money.

I don't deduct them from tithing. Even if their total meets or exceeds a paycheck (thinking of Xmas).

[mnn727]

To me that's a tough one since you gave the entire check away, had you just bought a present with part of it and kept the rest the answer would be yes, but this one to me at least is borderline, the only benefit you gained was a (hopefully) grateful Mom -- So to me the question is a 2 parter: have you prayed about it? and what do you think?

[Guest ArchangelKid]

I've only paid tithing once so far, the last time was in March. I decided to pay my tithing every fast Sunday. I keep really good track of the money I get and spend (there's an app for that). Last week, Fast Sunday was canceled because of Conference, so we'll be doing Fast Sunday tomorrow. I started doing my calculations and remembered about that check. It was a really big amount, well for a 20 year old living at home. I had a big bonus on that check, that check was about a whole 2 month's pay. If I pay tithing on that money, I would actually have to take money out of my possible mission savings to pay tithing tomorrow. So I hope you guys can understand why I want to ignore the fact that I got that check. But, I will pray about it. Thank you for your input.

[pam]

I would. It was still an increase to you. Whether you kept it or not it was still an increase.

[mnn727]

No offence but I believe it was not an increase to him, he got nothing out of it except hopefully a Thank You.

If he said he got a tangible benefit from it (made a car payment, house payment, etc) then yes. In this case he got nothing from it.

[Guest]

He got the benefit of having something to give his mom. He couldn't have without that increase.

[Leah]

No offence but I believe it was not an increase to him, he got nothing out of it except hopefully a Thank You.

If he said he got a tangible benefit from it (made a car payment, house payment, etc) then yes. In this case he got nothing from it.

A paycheck is a paycheck. What is done with it is irrelevant. Whatever one's increase is spent on - or not spent on - doesn't change the fact that it's an increase.

[pam]

No offence but I believe it was not an increase to him, he got nothing out of it except hopefully a Thank You.

If he said he got a tangible benefit from it (made a car payment, house payment, etc) then yes. In this case he got nothing from it.

The point is..it was HIS money to start with. It was still an increase. What he chooses to do with the money after the increase is up to him.

[viannqueen3]

Ultimately it really is your decision and I agree with praying about it. For next time though I'd suggest pulling tithing and savings first from your paycheck and then making gifting decisions from what is left. If you are having to pull monies from your saving account you've probably gifted too much, even though I'm sure it's appreciated.

[BadWolf]

No offence but I believe it was not an increase to him, he got nothing out of it except hopefully a Thank You.

If he said he got a tangible benefit from it (made a car payment, house payment, etc) then yes. In this case he got nothing from it.

Bold's mine!

To be clear, Im NOT saying what SHOULD be done.

He got to give it away.

No job, no paycheck... Could he still give his paycheck away?

Lets lowball a round number (math me bestest):

If he makes 1,200 dollars a month, and wants to give his mum $600... He can

- Sign over the entire check

- Pull out $50 a month

- Pull out $25 per paycheck

- Pull it out of savings

- Cash in stocks/bonds

- Borrow it

- Sell something

- etc.

Its still the same gift.

Some of those sources (like savings) will already have had tithing paid. We don't tithe on the gift. We tithe on the increase.

______

Or, as a thought exercise,

- I have a distant cousin who makes apx 250k a year. They don't need the money, and donate their entire salary, every year. Should they pay $0 in tithing each year because they choose to give away their paycheck?

((For the record, they pay 25k, plus 10% of the tax break they get from donating the money, plus 10% of all other increase per year. ))

I would love to be able to give to

- family

- charity

- organizations

- individuals

As my I have done in the past, as many do, as I shall again.

But I literally don't have it (at present, no paycheck). Not having anything, at present, to give may make this more keenly felt:

BELIEVE me, one has to first have, in order to give.

I'm not telling the OP to tithe on his increase. I would, but that's me. That's between them & their bishop. And, quite frankly, its none of my business what he spends his money on or how. HOWEVER, just because one isn't "getting anything from it" doesn't mean it wasnt spent. Gifts, bad investments, interest rates, donations, and others... All require having it to spend in the first place. Know what I mean?

[Guest ArchangelKid]

A friend told me yesterday to pretend I got paid in actual cash, and if I gave my mom the cash in her hand, I spent it on her...It made sense yesterday. I did pay tithe on it. Thank you for your input, sorry if it sounded like I was trying to not pay tithe on it.

[Guest]

Please let us not forget what tithing is. Tithing is not CHARITY. No. Tithing is obedience to a covenant. Fast offering is Charity - a completely different ball of wax.

The amount you tithe has nothing to do with where that money goes. Tithing has EVERYTHING to do with consecrating 10% of what you make to give to God. Not your mother. Hence, the advice to "ask God where He wants that money to go". Usually, we hand over that money to God's representatives on earth for them to figure out where God wants that money to go. If God tells the Prophet that money needs to be spent to build a mall, not to give to your ailing mother, that's where it needs to go. Yes, it requires a lot of faith to sustain a prophet that speaks for God.

Edited April 15, 2013 by anatess

[Maureen]

...If God tells the Prophet that money needs to be spent to build a mall, not to give to your ailing mother, that's where it needs to go. Yes, it requires a lot of faith to sustain a prophet that speaks for God.

Do you actually believe that it could be possible for God to instruct one of his prophets with instructions to ignore the sick and give money to a for-profit organization? Jesus was and is an advocate for the poor and sick. I doubt very much that this would happen but if it did, I would hope that members would be smart enough to see a problem with this.

M.

[Guest]

Do you actually believe that it could be possible for God to instruct one of his prophets with instructions to ignore the sick and give money to a for-profit organization? Jesus was and is an advocate for the poor and sick. I doubt very much that this would happen but if it did, I would hope that members would be smart enough to see a problem with this.

M.

Maureen, a Prophet who does not speak for God would manifest itself before he is handed those keys. I have complete faith that Prophet Thomas S. Monson speaks for God. And I have complete faith that his 2 counsellors as well as the 12 Apostles that lead the Church speaks for God. They wouldn't collectively do something contrary to God's will without something fraying at the ends showing before I raise my hand every year to sustain them. Therefore, when I hold my hand up to sustain them, my faith is secure in the knowledge that they speak for God. So that, when they do something that may seem contrary to what I believe is right, my first thought would not be, oh gee, the Prophet does not speak for God anymore because he built a mall instead of care for the poor. My first thought would be, what does God want with a mall? I would see this as an application of a lesson I learned on Martha's complaint to Jesus about her sister Mary. Martha simply did not understand how Mary served the Lord just like I simply may not have understood how the mall served the Lord.

The time for questioning the authority of the Prophet to hold those keys is done every year when we are asked to raise our hand to sustain the prophets. If something is not right with any of the Prophets, this is when you hold your hand up to oppose.

In any case, the failure of a Church authority to hold his stewardship over the Church's finances does not excuse me from my tithing covenant. It just means I need to figure out who the proper authority is to give my tithing to.

Edited April 15, 2013 by anatess

[Smeagums]

I would. It was still an increase to you. Whether you kept it or not it was still an increase.

You mean interest right? "Interest annually".

[Smeagums]

Please let us not forget what tithing is. Tithing is not CHARITY. No. Tithing is obedience to a covenant. Fast offering is Charity - a completely different ball of wax.

The amount you tithe has nothing to do with where that money goes. Tithing has EVERYTHING to do with consecrating 10% of what you make to give to God. Not your mother. Hence, the advice to "ask God where He wants that money to go". Usually, we hand over that money to God's representatives on earth for them to figure out where God wants that money to go. If God tells the Prophet that money needs to be spent to build a mall, not to give to your ailing mother, that's where it needs to go. Yes, it requires a lot of faith to sustain a prophet that speaks for God.

I don't believe God told President Monson to build a mall personally. Seems contrary to the Book of Mormon.

[Guest]

I don't believe God told President Monson to build a mall personally. Seems contrary to the Book of Mormon.

Smeagums... it was a hypothetical. Obviously. Or I thought it was pretty obvious... but what do I know, English is not my first language.

[Vort]

I don't believe God told President Monson to build a mall personally. Seems contrary to the Book of Mormon.

Huh. Who knew that putting thousands of individuals to work, rejuvenating a city center, and creating a beautiful space that directly and indirectly benefits literally hundreds of thousands of people is contrary to the Book of Mormon?

President Monson should put you on speed-dial so he can vet all these ideas through you before he approves them. Your utterly invaluable advice is sadly going to waste.

[Guest]

Huh. Who knew that putting thousands of individuals to work, rejuvenating a city center, and creating a beautiful space that directly and indirectly benefits literally hundreds of thousands of people is contrary to the Book of Mormon?

President Monson should put you on speed-dial so he can vet all these ideas through you before he approves them. Your utterly invaluable advice is sadly going to waste.

And you know... Jesus did relate a parable about the Master who rewarded good investments.

[Smeagums]

Huh. Who knew that putting thousands of individuals to work, rejuvenating a city center, and creating a beautiful space that directly and indirectly benefits literally hundreds of thousands of people is contrary to the Book of Mormon?

President Monson should put you on speed-dial so he can vet all these ideas through you before he approves them. Your utterly invaluable advice is sadly going to waste.

Ahhh Vort. I didn't know high end retail was a Godly pursuit.

[estradling75]

You mean interest right? "Interest annually".

Pretty sure she meant increase as in income

In modern times the Prophet Joseph Smith prayed, “O Lord, show unto thy servants how much thou requirest of the properties of thy people for a tithing” (D&C 119, section introduction). The Lord answered: “This shall be the beginning of the tithing of my people. And after that, those who have thus been tithed shall pay one-tenth of all their interest annually; and this shall be a standing law unto them forever” (D&C 119:3–4). The First Presidency has explained that “one-tenth of all their interest annually” refers to our income (see First Presidency letter, Mar. 19, 1970).

Or this if you like

“The law is simply stated as ‘one-tenth of all their interest.’ Interest means profit, compensation, increase. It is the wage of one employed, the profit from the operation of a business, the increase of one who grows or produces, or the income to a person from any other source.

[mordorbund]

Do you actually believe that it could be possible for God to instruct one of his prophets with instructions to ignore the sick and give money to a for-profit organization? Jesus was and is an advocate for the poor and sick. I doubt very much that this would happen but if it did, I would hope that members would be smart enough to see a problem with this.

M.

I believe that the Son of God Himself would opt to use 300 precious pence to improve the way His feet smell rather than give it to the poor.

I would hope that should this happen again, covenant members will be smart enough to side with their Lord.

[applepansy]

I would pay tithing.