Priesthood for sisters?

[Hyena]

I was just wanting to get some broader perspectives or thoughts on a question I had posed to me earlier this week. On a visit to an investigator with the missionaries, the investigator asked during a discussion of the various priesthoods and their levels (aaronic, teacher, apostles, etc) and she asked what do women have. The missionaries explained something of how the sisters have relief society and how women or daughters are exalted above others on his shoulders or something and that men are more prone to carnality or temptations of the flesh than women are and that's why we need the priesthood and they don't.

Can anyone share some thoughts to help me understand in case I'm ever approached with this again?

Thanks

[applepansy]

Pam, posted this on the lds.net facebook page.

"The priesthood duty of sisters is to create life, to nurture it, to prepare it for covenants of the Lord. Don’t confuse the power with the keys and the offices of the priesthood. God’s power is limitless and it is shared with those who make and keep covenants. Too much is said and misunderstood about what the brothers have and the sisters don’t have. This is Satan’s way of confusing both men and women so neither understands what they really have."

Julie B. Beck

[Hyena]

Thanks for that! I guess it's a question that comes up a bit. I think it is because we hear so much about the various types of priesthood authority that men have.

[dahlia]

Someone at church gave me this: 'I am a Mormon because I am a Feminist.' Mormon Scholars Testify » Blog Archive » Valerie Hudson Cassler

I thought it was a good presentation of the role of women in the Church and that women just because women don't hold the priesthood, it doesn't mean they are 2nd class. The writer is a Roman Catholic who converted.

As someone who left the Catholic Church partly over the role of women, I have to say that I love having the priesthood, especially being a single woman. This is the first time in 20+ years, since my husband died, that I have someone else to turn to if I need something. My HT is the same age as my son : ) so I don't do a lot of deep talking with him, but if I need something, including information about the Church, I can go to him. I don't think I'm any less of a superwoman because I go to my priesthood holder. It is a blessing. I don't want his role; I have my own.

[Wingnut]

The missionaries explained something...how women or daughters are exalted above others on his shoulders or something and that men are more prone to carnality or temptations of the flesh than women are and that's why we need the priesthood and they don't.

Mine is an unpopular opinion, but I think this is a load of bull.

(I'm a woman, btw.)

[Hyena]

Mine is an unpopular opinion, but I think this is a load of bull.

(I'm a woman, btw.)

Wingnut, would you kindly please tell me your opinion? I'm very interested in hearing all perspectives as I acknowledge I'm still very very ignorant in the ways of our Church.

Thank you!

[Jenamarie]

Wingnut, would you kindly please tell me your opinion? I'm very interested in hearing all perspectives as I acknowledge I'm still very very ignorant in the ways of our Church.

Thank you!

I'm not Wingnut, but I think it does a disservice to BOTH genders to say that men have the priesthood because they would otherwise be "lacking", and women don't just cuz they're so naturally awesome don't-cha-know. We don't need to build up our own roll by tearing down another's, or saying they only have that roll because they need extra goading in order to be "good enough" or "as good" as the other.

[Hyena]

That's a good thought mrs. Jenamarie. In truth that did bother me as well because it kinda made me feel like "well you're a MAN so you're more prone to sinning cause you're less perfect."

I certainly don't feel like I'm an inherently deviant person. I'm 30 and still have remained abstinent, I don't have an affinity towards porn or the desire to use women as sexual objects.

But I'm still curious as to why there aren't like nuns or a similar structure for women.

Is it just due to the time frame the church was founded?

[pam]

Personally I don't believe it has anything to do with men or women being the better gender. It has to do with the roles that Heavenly Father has set for us. As the quote I posted on lds.net facebook states...many are confused or don't have an understanding of what the brothers have and the women don't.

[estradling75]

Missionaries are at their best when focusing on the basics of the gospel. That is what they live and breathe that is what they are called to do and they do it very very well. However when they get into more nuanced aspects of the gospel they don't really have that same kind of experience. Barring inspiration they are going to answer the best that they know how.

There is and has been a certain amount of backlash against men in society and the members of the church are not immune. What the missionary told you I have heard being taught and shared on the local and personal levels. Not from any general authorities mind you, but people who I think really should have pondered and prayed about it a bit more before sharing.

We are all (Male and Female) equal in the eyes of God. We are all also very much different. It is a very human tendency to tried to judge these differences as either superior or inferior to another. And that is really just our pride speaking when we do so.

[Wingnut]

Wingnut, would you kindly please tell me your opinion? I'm very interested in hearing all perspectives as I acknowledge I'm still very very ignorant in the ways of our Church.

Thank you!

I don't know why men have the priesthood and women don't. I don't even really have a theory about it. But I absolutely do not subscribe to the idea that men have it because they need it to be as great as women are. Men and women are equal in the eyes of God.

Besides, if men had a handicap in the righteousness department, wouldn't all the prophets and apostles have to be women because they're naturally better, without any help?

Edited May 6, 2013 by Wingnut
I'm an idiot

[Anddenex]

I don't know why women have the priesthood and men don't.

Hahem... "I don't know why [men] have the priesthood and [women] don't." What Church do you belong to Wingnut?

[Wingnut]

Hahem... "I don't know why [men] have the priesthood and [women] don't." What Church do you belong to Wingnut?

Wow. I'm an idiot.

Fixed.

[Guest]

I love the First Tree and the Second Tree. Love it. Women have the responsibility to bring mankind through the First Tree - from Heaven to Earth. Men have the responsibility to bring mankind through the Second Tree - from Earth back to Heaven. Equal yokes, same priesthood, different keys.

[Finrock]

The sisters of the Church exercise power in the priesthood. They do not have the authority and keys of the priesthood. All things done in the Church are done through the authority of the priesthood. Hence, any sister who magnifies her calling, under the proper direction of priesthood authority, will be doing so with priesthood power.

Consider this scripture for a moment from D&C 84:19-20:

"19 And this greater priesthood administereth the gospel and holdeth the key of the mysteries of the kingdom, even the key of the knowledge of God.

"20 Therefore, in the ordinances thereof, the power of godliness is manifest."

Sisters do not have priesthood keys or authority. Sisters, however, are authorized to administer in the gospel through the priesthood keys that men hold. And, more importantly, I believe, it is through the ordinances of the priesthood that the power of the priesthood (or godliness) is made bare.

What are ordinances?

Obviously we have the ordinances of baptism, giving the gift of the Holy Ghost, Sacrament, etc. Women do not have authority to perform these particular ordinances. But, these are not all of the ordinances of the gospel.

According to the Guide to the Scriptures ordinances are, "acred rites and ceremonies. Ordinances consist of acts that have spiritual meanings. Ordinances can also mean God’s laws and statutes."

I submit that through the priesthood authority of men, women are able to perform ordinances of the gospel and thus they are able to exercise priesthood power. Further, I submit that just as there are ordinances that only men can perform, there are also some ordinances that only a woman can perform. A prime example of a priesthood ordinance that can be performed by women but not by men is to bear children.

Another example of priesthood ordinance: The righteous acts of a mother, acting within her calling as a mother, constitutes a priesthood ordinance and thus a manifestation of priesthood power.

So, in my view, the real big difference is that women do not have priesthood authority but they do have priesthood power. When authorized and righteous, women can act within the priesthood, this action constituting an ordinance of the priesthood, hence women will be acting with priesthood power. Further, there are priesthood ordinances that women can perform (bearing children) that men cannot, and vice versa.

Regards,

Finrock

Edited May 6, 2013 by Finrock
some spelling, some clarity, some grammar fixes

[Drpepper]

Regarding keys of the priesthood. Most men don't hold keys either. If you are in a ward of 500 members you will find that only 4 brethren in that ward actually hold priesthood keys.

Bishop, EQP, Teachers President, Deacons President.

Under the new and everlasting covenant woman's share the priesthood with their spouses as equals. Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord. That power encircles both of them and each has different roles within that circle.

[Just_A_Guy]

Finrock, how do you define "ordinance"?

[skippy740]

What are ordinances?

Obviously we have the ordinances of baptism, giving the gift of the Holy Ghost, Sacrament, etc. Women do not have authority to perform these particular ordinances. But, these are not all of the ordinances of the gospel.

According to the Guide to the Scriptures ordinances are, "acred rites and ceremonies. Ordinances consist of acts that have spiritual meanings. Ordinances can also mean God’s laws and statutes."

I submit that through the priesthood authority of men, women are able to perform ordinances of the gospel and thus they are able to exercise priesthood power. Further, I submit that just as there are ordinances that only men can perform, there are also some ordinances that only a woman can perform. A prime example of a priesthood ordinance that can be performed by women but not by men is to bear children.

Another example of priesthood ordinance: The righteous acts of a mother, acting within her calling as a mother, constitutes a priesthood ordinance and thus a manifestation of priesthood power.

So, in my view, the real big difference is that women do not have priesthood authority but they do have priesthood power. When authorized and righteous, women can act within the priesthood, this action constituting an ordinance of the priesthood, hence women will be acting with priesthood power. Further, there are priesthood ordinances that women can perform (bearing children) that men cannot, and vice versa.

Regards,

Finrock

Finrock, I like your post. I just disagree with it.

Women can bear children and be a good mother without the priesthood, nor without being married to a priesthood holder.

I believe that these are the ways, means and methods to carrying out God's plan for us (multiply and replenish the earth and raising kids)... but it does not require priesthood authority to do so.

***

There are roles, rules and responsibilities within God's plan that are unique to men and women. Just as there are roles, rules and responsibilities within the Church that are unique to men and women.

We should celebrate our unique attributes, and not necessarily find ways to make everyone the same.

We should be like a "Chef's Salad" - ingredients that are great together and great separately.

We shouldn't be trying to take that same Chef's salad and put it into a blender. It just doesn't work very well that way.

If everyone was exactly the same... then how unique would each of us feel within the Lord's Kingdom?

[Drpepper]

Women can bear children and be a good mother without the priesthood, nor without being married to a priesthood holder.

Love the salad example and thanks for making me hungry:lol:

Just a comment on the above sentence. This is true but its only through the priesthood that the husband and wife jointly share that those children are born under the covenant and sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise theirs for time and eternity.

[selek]

Love the salad example and thanks for making me hungry:lol:

So....this would be a bad time to mention the fried chicken, oven-roasted potatoes, and salad I had for dinner?

What about the strawberries and cream I'm having for dessert?

[THIRDpersonviewer]

I dont have a definitive view on what finrock said, but as to what skippy was saying about children being born and that there are babies born outside the church. A possible suggestion is that being born in the covenant requires that the mother and father have been sealed in the temple. Priesthood is required to enter into covenants, right? I wouldnt define any act of righteousness a performance of an ordinance. I would more consider that just us fulfilling the covenants.

Ordinances are the means of entering or renewing covenants. The way we live enhances the power and effect of these covenants, and thus also makes the ordinances many times more meaningful. Then it becomes very evident that the power of Godliness is indeed manifest in the ordinances.

[Guest Steph1ani1e]

Thanks for that! I guess it's a question that comes up a bit.

[Drpepper]

So....this would be a bad time to mention the fried chicken, oven-roasted potatoes, and salad I had for dinner?

What about the strawberries and cream I'm having for dessert?

Ohhhh that's just cruel .....

[Finrock]

Good afternoon skippy740. I hope you are having a good day! :)

Finrock, I like your post. I just disagree with it.

Women can bear children and be a good mother without the priesthood, nor without being married to a priesthood holder.

I believe that these are the ways, means and methods to carrying out God's plan for us (multiply and replenish the earth and raising kids)... but it does not require priesthood authority to do so.

Don't get too hung up on the bearing children example of exercising power in the priesthood. Remember, there is priesthood authority and priesthood power. Women do not have priesthood authority or keys, but they certainly exercise priesthood power. Further, women are authorized to administer in the gospel through the priesthood authority and keys that men have. It is through and by priesthood authority that a woman is called as a Relief Society president, for instance. Therefore, when a women is authorized to be a Relief Society president (her authority coming from the authority and keys of the Bishop) and she magnifies her calling in righteousness, she will be exercising priesthood power.

What is priesthood?

Guide to the Scriptures states priesthood is "the authority and power that God gives to man to act in all things for the salvation of man".

We could say that the priesthood is really God's power to bless others.

In that sense, we don't need special permission to bless (When I say "bless" here I do not mean to say "hands on head" blessing, but helping, assisting, bringing about good in other people's lives) others, generally speaking. It is also true that God has designated that certain ordinances be done under the direction of priesthood authority and keys, such as baptism. However, anyone can exercise power in the priesthood by serving and loving others, for instance.

Now, in regards to bearing children. Consider this: If every woman was to be obedient to God's commandments, then every woman would be authorized through the priesthood (being sealed) to bear children before they exercised this power. Whether a woman is a member of the Church or not and she is a good mother, she is exercising priesthood power (or God's power) when she is acting in righteousness to bless the lives of her children.

The key is to recognize the difference between authority and power. We need priesthood authority to perform certain gospel ordinances but we do not need priesthood authority to exercise priesthood power. Further, just because we may have authority, it does not necessarily mean we are exercising priesthood power, because power in the priesthood is inseparably connected with the principles of righteousness and can only be exercised in righteousness.

There are roles, rules and responsibilities within God's plan that are unique to men and women. Just as there are roles, rules and responsibilities within the Church that are unique to men and women.

We should celebrate our unique attributes, and not necessarily find ways to make everyone the same.

We should be like a "Chef's Salad" - ingredients that are great together and great separately.

We shouldn't be trying to take that same Chef's salad and put it into a blender. It just doesn't work very well that way.

If everyone was exactly the same... then how unique would each of us feel within the Lord's Kingdom?

What I am saying is not an attempt to make men and women the same.

Regards,

Finrock

Edited May 7, 2013 by Finrock
Spelling, clarification.

[Finrock]

Good morning Just_A_Guy. I hope you are having a wonderful day! :)

Finrock, how do you define "ordinance"?

I define an ordinance as any act done for the salvation of a person.

Or, from the Guide to the Scriptures: "Sacred rites and ceremonies. Ordinances consist of acts that have spiritual meanings. Ordinances can also mean God’s laws and statutes."

Some ordinances require special authorization and keys (ex., Baptism) while other ordinances do not.

Regards,

Finrock

Edited May 7, 2013 by Finrock
Clarified