Gadianton robbers and governments

[Dravin]

Understanding what power is, is critical to giving any meaningful answer. Romans 13:1 is very important.

I doubt anyone, excepting you, is using that definition of power in this thread. You're basically using a no true Scotsman fallacy with power, "Well, the ability to tax you, throw you in jail, or murder your family isn't true power, it is unrighteous dominion." While I can understand the philosophical underpinnings for claiming that 'power' extending from Satan is not 'true power' insisting that everyone who isn't using your specialized definition but a more general one has fallen prey to the deceptions of Satan is going a bit far. It strikes me as akin to someone saying, "That car has power!" and responding to them with, "That car does not have power, all power belongs to God. How deceived you are."

Edit: To be fair maybe I'm misreading the tenor of your posts. Maybe you mean to suggest that we ponder on this specialized vocabulary and it's implications. However, it's coming across, to me, as calling people who entered this conversation not hinging their discussion on the specialized vocabulary deceived, evidence of Satan's great plan to keep people from using your specialized vocabulary.

Edited May 28, 2013 by Dravin

[annewandering]

People do have power over us whether we call it power or not. Your employer tells you what to do and you do it or lose your job and paycheck. The government has power over you in that if you do not follow the laws you can end up in jail and/or lose your property. Corporations have power over you in that if you participate in commerce in anyway, they decide the circumstances and what you have to pay for the product or service.

The power is not imaginary. We can deny it, same as my brother did regarding taxes, and we WiLL pay the penalty.

Now if we have honest people in power then its not a problem. Gadiantons are far from honest. Can anyone honestly say that those in power over us today are honest and have our interests at heart?

Isnt that the definition of a gadianton?

[Letrell]

Well shoot. I had a nice reply...Has taken me half an hour to write it and because my keyboard on my laptop has that problem that so many have, the cursor bounces around and I lost the entire post.

Frustrating. I really don't have time to retype it or rethink it.

I do appreciate all the comments. I don't agree it was political in the War in Heaven, and my post said why. LOL, I understand why others may consider it so. I AM reading the responses and as I said, I appreciate them.

I just want all to know that.

[Finrock]

Good afternoon Letrell. I hope you are doing well! :)

Well shoot. I had a nice reply...Has taken me half an hour to write it and because my keyboard on my laptop has that problem that so many have, the cursor bounces around and I lost the entire post.

Frustrating. I really don't have time to retype it or rethink it.

Not on topic, but we've experienced this issue at work where I am in IT. At least with Dell laptops the issue was traced down to a glitch/flaw with the touchpad on the laptop. By disabling the touchpad, the cursor bouncing around or screen scrolling up and down goes away.

In the Dell laptops the ability to turn the touchpad off is easily down via software. In the Run command prompt type "Mouse" and it will take you to the mouse properties in Windows. Again, depending on your laptop, the option to disable touchpad, if it exist, would be found under the mouse properties.

Regards,

Finrock

[Traveler]

I keep trying to keep everyone on a specific warning concerning Satan’s efforts to destroy liberties through governmental intrusions. So here is another sign that I believe points to increasing influence of Gadianton style organizations (as warned in the Book of Mormon) in government. An increasing need for Lawyers in order to conduct normal business and keep one’s possessions (possessions becoming “slippery”).

And another one – the feeling that one must keep a weapon with them – including and especially while sleeping.

The Traveler

[annewandering]

Its politics but not partisan. We elect people we know are immoral and unethical.

We tolerate and defend everyone no matter how deep in sin they are. It is really hard anymore to call people evil instead of insane. Insanity mimics evil pretty well.

We are put in positions of defending fairness and be thought by both sides to be defending sin. It was a whole lot easier when we could just hate people without understanding how they got that way! Yes we hate pedophiles but then we discover they were abused the same way as children and got twisted. Where do we stop the hate but not cross over the line to enabling sin? It really was easier when it was all black or white. It sure isnt that way now. That is very good in one way and very bad in another. People are very confused about it all now, which is a very tricky maneuver for satan to pull. (satan is the overlord of the gadiantons after all.)

[NeuroTypical]

And another one – the feeling that one must keep a weapon with them – including and especially while sleeping.

Really? I'm as gun-nutty as the next guy, and I do know of a private citizen here and there who carries everywhere, and some who even keep it handy during sleep. But in the 7 years I've been associating with these folks, their numbers haven't really increased. And the words "feeling" "must" and "especially while sleeping" don't really apply to many of them.

I know plenty of people who stridently believe the end is near. The last time I was hearing strongly from them, was a few months ago when ammo was hard to find. The tornadoes have them sharing stories, but nobody is talking about the last stand of the Nephites.

I have noticed that a big stack of ladies in and out of my ward, have obtained their conceal-carry permits. But they're not talking end-times-sleep-on-your-swordery either.

[annewandering]

Really? I'm as gun-nutty as the next guy, and I do know of a private citizen here and there who carries everywhere, and some who even keep it handy during sleep. But in the 7 years I've been associating with these folks, their numbers haven't really increased. And the words "feeling" "must" and "especially while sleeping" don't really apply to many of them.

I know plenty of people who stridently believe the end is near. The last time I was hearing strongly from them, was a few months ago when ammo was hard to find. The tornadoes have them sharing stories, but nobody is talking about the last stand of the Nephites.

I have noticed that a big stack of ladies in and out of my ward, have obtained their conceal-carry permits. But they're not talking end-times-sleep-on-your-swordery either.

The gun people are much more vocal and paranoid than ever in my life time. Even my family is and my dad was a gunsmith so they have always had guns. Its the paranoia that is different. And frightening. You are younger so maybe that is why you dont see the difference? It is very much in evidence even on here.

I saw the oddest insult today. 'He would walk the Jersey shore with Jesus Christ". No one commented on how odd an insult that was. It is a perfect example of how satan/gadiantons are making big inroads.

Edited May 28, 2013 by annewandering

[carlimac]

Well shoot. I had a nice reply...Has taken me half an hour to write it and because my keyboard on my laptop has that problem that so many have, the cursor bounces around and I lost the entire post.

Frustrating. I really don't have time to retype it or rethink it.

I do appreciate all the comments. I don't agree it was political in the War in Heaven, and my post said why. LOL, I understand why others may consider it so. I AM reading the responses and as I said, I appreciate them.

I just want all to know that.

Mine does that, too. Arg!! Does anyone know if that's a sign of a Gadianton Robber in my computer (or a virus)? Just trying to stay on topic.

[carlimac]

I really can't say I know without a doubt and have evidence there are Gadiantons in the govt. The IRS thing comes pretty close in my mind. But I do know there is selfishness, efforts to cover tracks and corruption by certain individuals and like someone said before me, just plain stupidity.

I think I'll go plant more flowers instead of trying to understand this thread. I like attempting to at least beautify my own little corner of the world. Now if someone makes off with my pots of geraniums, there will be **** to pay.

[Windseeker]

I saw the oddest insult today. 'He would walk the Jersey shore with Jesus Christ". No one commented on how odd an insult that was. It is a perfect example of how satan/gadiantons are making big inroads.

I don't get this at all. First I don't get the insult. Is it that Obama is so full of himself that he would feel comfortable walking and bragging about all the good he's done to Jesus Christ??

Regardless what does insulting the sitting President have to do with satan/gadiantons?

Edit:

Maybe I'm way off on this I thought this might of been regarding the Presidents visit to NJ, is walking the Jersey Shore just a general insult? Is it an insult to Jesus Christ? I don't get it at all. What context was it used in.

Edited May 28, 2013 by Windseeker
afterthought

[Dravin]

Edit:

Maybe I'm way off on this I thought this might of been regarding the Presidents visit to NJ, is walking the Jersey Shore just a general insult? Is it an insult to Jesus Christ? I don't get it at all. What context was it used in.

Well, Christie is a slur, a typo, or a mishearing, away from Christ. It may have just been a current events reference rather than some obscure insult. Though I suppose if they said "Jesus Christ" it wasn't just a corruption of Christie.

Edited May 28, 2013 by Dravin

[Windseeker]

Well Christie is a slur, a typo, or a mishearing, away from Christ. It may have just been a current events reference then some sly insult. Though I suppose if they said "Jesus Christ" it wasn't just a corruption of Christie.

Yeah that's what I thought at first but not I'm not sure. I guess it depends on who "he" is.

[Dravin]

Yeah that's what I thought at first but not I'm not sure. I guess it depends on who "he" is.

If Jesus Christ was actually intended, it was aimed at Barack, and it was intended as an insult I suspect it was your standard Obama as Savior/Messiah reference.

Edited May 28, 2013 by Dravin

[Windseeker]

If Jesus Christ was actually intended, it was aimed at Barack, and it was intended as an insult I suspect it was your standard Obama as Savior/Messiah reference.

Then that leads me to my original question on what that has to do with gadiations.

[annewandering]

lol and I thought it meant that he was so low he would even walk with Jesus Christ. I was thinking he was atheist. Ok I dont really get it at all but it seemed like an insult to Jesus to me. That was the gadianton reference Maybe it was an insult to them all! And yes it was the Obama Christie walk that I was referring to.

[NeuroTypical]

The gun people are much more vocal and paranoid than ever in my life time. Even my family is and my dad was a gunsmith so they have always had guns. Its the paranoia that is different. And frightening.

Huh. I am certainly seeing gun enthusaists in greater numbers. And there's quite a bit of anger, especially here in Colorado, at recent legislation. I'm mad too a little, as the law was so poorly written that it might turn me into a criminal and I haven't done anything wrong. I know Glenn Beck is more and more fringey every time I hear him, and he keeps being proven correct enough to hold his more skeptical audience. But the only time I've ever heard of people "needing" to sleep with their guns, is in this thread.

You are younger so maybe that is why you dont see the difference?

It's possible, I guess. But I remember the first ammo shortage paranoia of 2008 - worse than the 2012 cycle. And I vaguely remember the original fed gun and magazine ban from 1994-2004, the apocalyptic screaming and fretting was much more melodramatic than it is today in my circles.

I do think the Relief Society may have passed my Elder's Quorum in number of people with conceal carry permits in my ward, but it's going by without the end-of-times nuttiness.

[mrmarklin]

I think we need to be careful not to be political in this question but what do members of the forum believe to be evidences that a Gadianton inspired secret society has taken control or power over a government?

The Traveler

Certainly the drug cartels have heavily infiltrated the government of Mexico.

[mrmarklin]

In other words, judging by the posts in this thread (and every other gadianton thread I've seen in the last decade), satan is, to a certain extent, winning.

Read about real power - especially Romans 13:1. Then talk to me about government offices and the ability to command armies and make people afraid and tax and stuff.

Based on past history, Satan is losing!! Compare world governments prior to the American Revolution.

See? There has been a great increase in freedom and a general decrease in "gadiantons".

Of course the fight goes on, and it's easy to get discouraged. We didn't get where we are today compared to over 200 years ago without a lot of anguish and bloodshed. But the prophecies all predict the winning side. So if your believe in the Bible, stay on the winning team.

[Finrock]

Good afternoon mrmarklin. I hope you are well. :)

Based on past history, Satan is losing!! Compare world governments prior to the American Revolution.

See? There has been a great increase in freedom and a general decrease in "gadiantons".

Of course the fight goes on, and it's easy to get discouraged. We didn't get where we are today compared to over 200 years ago without a lot of anguish and bloodshed. But the prophecies all predict the winning side. So if your believe in the Bible, stay on the winning team.

Within your context I can see your point. However, consider the question from the perspective of the United States as a country. Within the history of our country what is the trend? The BoM was written specifically for our time and it is clear to me that the patterns and trends we see in the Nephite civilization is a foreshadow of our civilization.

In my opinion we are quickly heralding in both an era of wickedness and righteousness. I'd compare it to 3 Nephi to the time before Christ appeared to the Nephites. There were many powerful signs and acts of faith by a righteous minority, and although many converted, most of the population and the government were spiraling out of control because of wickedness and the pervasiveness of Gadiaton principles amongst the general population, including those who proclaimed to be members of the Church of Jesus Christ.

Regards,

Finrock

Edited May 29, 2013 by Finrock
Didn't want to exclude our own

[skalenfehl]

First there was Cain, then Akish, then Kishkumen, then Gadianton. Evidence of "Gadiantons" is secret combinations. Have people today in seats of power been "combining" behind closed doors to usurp power to overthrow liberty? Yes!

In the BoM, Lehi teaches that this (American continent) is a holy land, a land of freedom and liberty, dedicated to those who worship the only true King. And only iniquity will bring the downfall of any who choose iniquity. The Jaredites chose iniquity, the Spirit of the Lord ceased striving with them and Coriantumr was the last to witness their fall.

Mormon and Moroni teach us that the Nephites suffered the exact fate resulting from secret combinations. The Lamanites were spared only because of covenants made between the Lord and Lehi (read 2 Nephi, Jacob 5 and Enos).

Today, we are on the same path (Gentile nation) to losing our liberty to the same dark forces combining to overthrow liberty in the promised land. The Lord suffered the US Constitution to be given to us to preserve life, liberty, property and worship (D&C) and it has been under attack since its ratification. The OP asked for evidences. Laws being passed without reading them/slipping small bills into larger bills to be passed. You also have such acts as NDAA, Patriot Act, etc. The Federal Reserve and bailouts of banks and other organizations that are "too large to fail." I am not going to list any specific people, but again, to the OP, I'd be willing to PM you with more info and sources.

Our government is corrupt. Politicians are either in bed with those combining or just turn the other way to keep their seats of power. Only a few truly care about liberty anymore. The govt is a reflection of an apathetic society, which has allowed itself to be continually divided by superficial issues designed to keep it distracted by the actions of those in power.

Edited May 29, 2013 by skalenfehl

[Letrell]

Good afternoon Letrell. I hope you are doing well! :)

Not on topic, but we've experienced this issue at work where I am in IT. At least with Dell laptops the issue was traced down to a glitch/flaw with the touchpad on the laptop. By disabling the touchpad, the cursor bouncing around or screen scrolling up and down goes away.

In the Dell laptops the ability to turn the touchpad off is easily down via software. In the Run command prompt type "Mouse" and it will take you to the mouse properties in Windows. Again, depending on your laptop, the option to disable touchpad, if it exist, would be found under the mouse properties.

Regards,

Finrock

Thank you so much. I will try that!!!