George Zimmerman Case winding down

[Just_A_Guy]

So . . . the jury has the case now. Any predictions?

I think the evidence favors Zimmerman; but prosecutor John Guy is a brilliant orator and I think he did well at exploiting the issues that Zimmerman's counsel O'Mara failed to bring up at closing argument. IMHO outright acquittal is the legally correct result; but if I had to put money into it I'd put my money on a hung jury or a manslaughter conviction.

[Windseeker]

I think he will be aquitted. How long do you think the deliberation will take?

[prisonchaplain]

You're right. Would you suggest we all watch MSNBC to get unbiased opinions. EVERYONE pushes their own opinion. She is no more one sided than many liberals. Watch big mouth Chris Matthews sometime

I don't watch much news-entertainment. George Will and Charles Krauthammer offer conservatism that is sharp but reasoned. Realclearpolitics.com is good at offering both sides. The Week is moderate, but offers both sides. In general, reading gets us more information than cable TV.

[bytor2112]

So . . . the jury has the case now. Any predictions?

I think the evidence favors Zimmerman; but prosecutor John Guy is a brilliant orator and I think he did well at exploiting the issues that Zimmerman's counsel O'Mara failed to bring up at closing argument. IMHO outright acquittal is the legally correct result; but if I had to put money into it I'd put my money on a hung jury or a manslaughter conviction.

I am guessing he will be acquitted. JAG...I have heard of facebook posters arrested for making threats....even jokingly about school violence etc. What about the tweeters who are calling for riots and violence against Zimmerman...legal? Can they be arrested as well? Just curious...

[Suzie]

He will be acquitted. Heck, if someone like Casey Anthony can walk out free why not Zimmerman?

[Just_A_Guy]

I am guessing he will be acquitted. JAG...I have heard of facebook posters arrested for making threats....even jokingly about school violence etc. What about the tweeters who are calling for riots and violence against Zimmerman...legal? Can they be arrested as well? Just curious...

Bytor, I'm rusty on my first amendment case law, but I think the legal analysis hinges on the totality of the circumstances and whether the words are in fact likely to incite illegal behavior. These imbeciles on Twitter are small fish, and someone like Sharpton or Jackson are too smart (or, at least, their lawyers are) to come out and cross the line outright. So I don't think you'll see many prosecutions based on inciting whatever riots happen to come up in the wake of the Zimmerman verdict; but I could easily be wrong.

[Just_A_Guy]

He will be acquitted. Heck, if someone like Casey Anthony can walk out free why not Zimmerman?

Casey Anthony didn't have the President of the United States and his attorney general publicly jonesing for her conviction.

[bytor2112]

Bytor, I'm rusty on my first amendment case law, but I think the legal analysis hinges on the totality of the circumstances and whether the words are in fact likely to incite illegal behavior. These imbeciles on Twitter are small fish, and someone like Sharpton or Jackson are too smart (or, at least, their lawyers are) to come out and cross the line outright. So I don't think you'll see many prosecutions based on inciting whatever riots happen to come up in the wake of the Zimmerman verdict; but I could easily be wrong.

Scary to think how quickly someone's life can be ruined. Zimmerman needs to re-locate quickly after MSNBC shells out some large green to him.

What is most sickening is the fact that President Obama , his DOJ, Governor Scott and other very influential people used this event for political gain. In the aftermath.... a wayward kid is dead, an innocent man's life in shambles and race tension is still used for gain in 2013.

[NeuroTypical]

She is a fool, regardless of where I stand on the political spectrum

My question is are you equally critical of the plethora of shrill, venomous voices that are adored by the left?

I thought bytor had a good question, and I'd like to urge Praetorian_Brow to answer.

[Saldrin]

I think they find him guilty of being white,(even though he is not) this trial makes me ill, its a disgrace.

[bytebear]

Left-Wing Hate Speech -- Michelle Malkin

Chris Mathews calls Mormons Cultists (commenting on how he sees how Conservatives see Mormons..he does this kind of 2nd hand hate speech allot)

Don't forget MSNBC'S Lawrence O'Donnell who called Joseph Smith a rapist. And I'd like to know if liberals consider MSNBC "Faux" as well.

Edited July 13, 2013 by bytebear

[bytebear]

Remember the riots after OJ was acquitted? Neither do I.

[prisonchaplain]

If the jurors play it safe Zimmerman will get manslaughter. Part of me thinks it was. However, the state didn't prove it, and Zimmerman should be acquitted. Silly defense did not prove innocence though--and asking the jury to "write in" innocent may backfire. "Wait. The defense didn't prove innocence? Let's charge him with manslaughter."

This from the LA Times:

Describing a hypothetical verdict form, O’Mara said it should have “guilty, not guilty and completely innocent.”

“You’d have to check that one,” O’Mara said of the last option.

Fox's Greta Van Susteran had a panel of lawyers analyze the close, and all but one agreed the defense played a dangerous game by saying it would take on "the burden of proof" to show Martin's innocence. The tact seems to be that if they could even come close to doing so then "reasonable doubt" was a certainty. One lawyer found this clever, the other 3 and the host (a former attorney herself) were appalled. They said the jury could easily be confused into thinking that the defense had taken on that burden, and if they did not succeed, then manslaughter would be reasonable. Edited July 13, 2013 by prisonchaplain

[Dravin]

Silly defense did not prove innocence though--and asking the jury to "write in" innocent may backfire. "Wait. The defense didn't prove innocence? Let's charge him with manslaughter."

The defense doesn't need to prove innocence, all they need to do is demonstrate reasonable doubt in the prosecution's case. Though to be fair it isn't a given that the jury will appreciate the distinction.

[Just_A_Guy]

O'Mara, at closing, had a chart illustrating the different levels of proof, culminating in "beyond a reasonable doubt". I heard him several times saying something along the lines of "we could prove this, if we had to, but we don't have to . . ."

The prosecutor's rhetoric was pretty strong at rebuttal, but the memory of it fades with every passing minute, leaving only the evidence. I think time's probably on Zimmerman's side.

[MorningStar]

I won't be surprised if they come back with a hung jury considering some jurors might be too scared to find him not guilty.

Makes me sick how the MSM has portrayed this story - an innocent black "child" shot by a racial profiling "white man", now called a "white Hispanic" after they figured out the name "Zimmerman" didn't automatically mean he's white.

Still, rioters will go after white people even though we had nothing to do with what Zimmerman did or the jurors' decision (whatever it will be).

[LittleWyvern]

Makes me sick how the MSM has portrayed this story - an innocent black "child" shot by a racial profiling "white man", now called a "white Hispanic" after they figured out the name "Zimmerman" didn't automatically mean he's white.

To be fair, calling Zimmerman white and calling Zimmerman Hispanic are both correct. Hispanic refers to a socio-cultural group, not a race: it's kinda like saying "this guy's ancestors had something to do with Spain." The exact definition is... well, complicated.

[Just_A_Guy]

If "hispanic" isn't truly a race because it actually comprises an amalgam of nationalities that, at some point, relate back to Spain; then how can "white" be a race when it, too, comprises an amalgam of nationalities that actually doesn't necessarily relate back to any particular nation (not even England)?

Think all those white folks are the same? I know a few million European Jews and Slavs that would beg to differ. Even when they got to America, some groups (i.e. Irish, Italians, and, in some places, Scandinavians) took a very, very long time to assimilate fully into "white" culture--if they did at all. And of course, the group we call "black" consists of people descended from innumerable separate tribes spread out across Africa, which in our day is divided into fifty-something separate nation-states. At its core, I don't see how "hispanic" is really that different from those other two groups.

This insistence that Zimmerman is "white" (or "self-identified" hispanic, if "hispanic" at all) because he had a European-American dad and a Peruvian mom; but that President Obama is undeniably "black" because he had a European-American mom and a Kenyan dad, comes off Clintonesque at best, and a cynical attempt to divide the American citizenry for political gain at worst.

Edited July 13, 2013 by Just_A_Guy

[LittleWyvern]

If "Hispanic" isn't truly a race because it actually comprises an amalgam of nationalities that, at some point, relate back to Spain; then how can "white" be a race when it, too, comprises an amalgam of nationalities that actually doesn't necessarily relate back to any particular nation (not even England)?

Think all those white folks are the same?

Of course not, don't assume things. I agree with you more than you think: Hispanic is a mess of a ethnonym and doesn't really say anything particularly useful here. I was just trying to explain its common usage.

[Just_A_Guy]

Of course not, don't assume things. I agree with you more than you think: Hispanic is a mess of a ethnonym . . .

Agreed. But why did you put up a Wikipedia article primarily occupied with explaining why Brazilians don't consider themselves Hispanic, when Zimmerman doesn't claim Brazilian ancestry? And no one seems to be conceding Zimmerman to be "latino", either.

. . . and doesn't really say anything particularly useful here.

Whereas describing Zimmerman as "white" is very useful. To some people, anyways.

Edited July 13, 2013 by Just_A_Guy

[Suzie]

Hispanic is a ethnicity not a race. There are white, black, Asian, mixed people in this group. When people think about Hispanics, they think about someone who look like Jennifer Lopez or Eva Longoria. But you have people like Cameron Diaz or Celia Cruz. This ethnic group is VERY broad.

I rather the term Latino/a when I talk about Central or South American people or their descendants. And let's face it, in the US people categorize others based on phenotypes. Basically, if you look Asian, then you are Asian, etc. Mr. President is considered Black but anywhere else with a large black population, he would be considered "mixed".

Now with Zimmerman, when his name was released CNN and the rest automatically assumed he was "Caucasian" because of his last name. They got a surprise afterwards.

[Just_A_Guy]

Verdict is in. Will be read shortly. Livestream at Zimmerman Trial Livestream | www.wftv.com.

[Just_A_Guy]

Not Guilty

[LittleWyvern]

You mean I can stop hearing about this trial on the news/facebook/work/etc.? I don't care what the verdict was, I'm happy just for that.

[Just_A_Guy]

The defense still has a pending motion for sanctions against the prosecution, I think; so we'll probably see some fallout from that early next week.