George Zimmerman Case winding down

[Just_A_Guy]

Mr. Zimmerman was "patrolling", the neighbourhood packing a weapon, . . .

Uh, no; he happened to be driving on a personal errand and saw Martin walking slowly, from house to house, in a rainstorm, pausing to look into the window of each. A slim jim was later found in the yard of one of the houses in the area.

. . . was directed not to follow Mr. Martin by 911, but still did so.

Did he continue to follow Martin after being told he didn't need to follow Martin? I don't believe that's been demonstrated. Zimmerman's 911 call suggests Martin aggressively staring Zimmerman down before the call even ended. Trayvon could have been home within sixty seconds of the end of the call (look at a map). The fact that he wasn't, combined with what Zimmerman observed in the call and Trayvon's own history, suggests he took off to get a lead on Zimmerman and then, when out of visual contact, doubled back and ambushed the "creepy . . . cracker".

Even if "Stand your Ground" law was in effect, it seems pretty strange that someone would stalk another person, without authority, as a vigilante . . .

Why?

and then shoot Mr. Martin.

What would you suggest, once the beating started? Lying back and thinking of England?

People die from thrashings like the one Zimmerman was taking, PB. We just had a soccer referee here in UT who died because of a single punch to the head by a disgruntled player. Zimmerman's head was being crashed into concrete, repeatedly, by Martin, who was on top of him MMA-style. His injuries, the stains on his clothing, the ballistics, and eyewitness testimony all agree on this.

Regardless of what Mr. Martin's intentions were, Mr. Zimmerman was obviously looking for trouble.

Have you listened to, or read the full transcript of, Zimmerman's 911 call?

What other result could there be, given that Mr. Zimmerman was walking around with a gun, following someone with questionable intentions? He had intent.

Besmirching the motives of anyone who carries concealed, isn't exactly a convincing tactic.

Guess I don't know what I am speaking of, after all.

You've been misinformed in some key details, I'm afraid.

By not holding a trial, the state was saying that Mr. Zimmerman was justified in his actions and that immediately spawned theories as to why and of course its going to spark racial tensions. Now that a trial is underway, of course people will be suspicious of the outcomes.

This seems a little incongruous. "We need to have a trial so people trust the system; but if the trial doesn't come out the way I think it should people STILL won't trust the system."

The gun lobbyists will be screaming some junk about gun rights, but nobody seems to want to focus on the killing of a man, regardless of gun "rights" or race.

I daresay the Zimmerman defense would have been thrilled to be able to tell the court just what kind of man Martin was. It's the prosecution that has tried to conceal Martin's fighting, his attempts to get a gun (with the assistance of his father), his drug use, his thefts, and the fact that his own mother couldn't manage him and turned him out of the house. Untimely deaths are always unfortunate. On the other hand: live by the sword, die by the sword.

Some of Zimmerman's detractors, when all is said and done, seem to think that passive victimhood-of theft, and of violent crime-is one of the natural obligations of citizenship. When someone stands up and says "no", that someone must be promptly condemned as a freak. And heaven help him if he's carrying a gun.

Edited July 11, 2013 by Just_A_Guy

[Windseeker]

[bytor2112]

The strange gets stranger...poor Zimmerman

Wow....

And some CNN for PB

Edited July 11, 2013 by bytor2112

[Windseeker]

As if Zimmermans life hasn't been destroyed enough already by the race-baiting left-wing media looking to keep their base angry and ignorant, now they want to make him out as a child abuser?

Will this guy ever not have to look over his shoulder every second? What a nightmare.

[mnn727]

Ann Coulter is a bit below Westboro Baptist as being filled with hatred and publicity seekers, but not much.

But even a broken clock is right twice a day.

[LittleWyvern]

I sure hope this case winds down soon. I know democracy and trials are important, but media-famous court cases like this tend to become glorified soap operas (and not just any soap opera: the kind of soap opera that everybody loves to argue about for some reason) and bore me to tears. I've had to resort to listening to BBC to get any news that wasn't about this trial.

[EarlJibbs]

Ann Coulter should never be consulted for news, just as Faux News should not be considered a source, or even Bill O'Reilly.

Mr. Zimmerman was "patrolling", the neighbourhood packing a weapon, was directed not to follow Mr. Martin by 911, but still did so. Even if "Stand your Ground" law was in effect, it seems pretty strange that someone would stalk another person, without authority, as a vigilante and then shoot Mr. Martin. Regardless of what Mr. Martin's intentions were, Mr. Zimmerman was obviously looking for trouble.

Since 911 operators never give bad advice ALWAYS listening to them seems to be the best idea? Here are a few examples I found. The second link is terrible.

Denver 911 Apologizes for Deadly Instructions

Oregon Woman Raped After 911 Call Goes Unanswered | Fox News Insider

I am not saying that Zimmerman shouldnt have backed off, but there is a difference with talking with someone over the phone and actually being there in the moment. How would our attitude change if Zimmerman would have backed off and then Mr Martin harmed someone else? Then what, we yell and scream at the 911 operator and scrutinize Zimmermans decision?

Edited July 11, 2013 by EarlJibbs

[Just_A_Guy]

The child abuse claim actually doesn't surprise me much--I've seen dads go down on that for getting in physical altercations with their late-teenaged sons.

Seems to me, though, that it's a bit of a gift for the defense. The all-female jury have already seen both the prosecution and defense counsel act out the altercation, with the aid of a dummy. One of the jurors herself holds a concealed carry permit. Another has done so in the past, but has let it lapse.

It doesn't take a particularly able defense attorney to bring back those images and combine them with what he knows about the jurors to come up with a closing argument something like the following:

Ladies of the jury, in a few days your service to this court will have ended. You will go back to your everyday lives. But the lessons of this case will remain with you. And you must remember one lesson, above all else:

Remember, ladies, that the State of Florida believes that when you find yourself in this position [pointing to a picture, from earlier in the trial, of one of the attorneys straddling the mannequin], in the middle of the night, underneath an aggressive male who you never met before in your life--the State of Florida believes that you, ladies, should just lie still, wait for it to end, and hope you come out of it alive. Anything more, and you have committed assault. You are a potential murderer. And if you are unfortunate enough to misjudge the age of a stranger who looks like this [show photo of glowering Trayvon Martin]--you are also a child abuser.

That is the legal conclusion, ladies, of the state Attorney General, who serves as legal counsel to the thousands of police officers in this state who you thought were sworn to serve and protect you.

Edited July 11, 2013 by Just_A_Guy

[prisonchaplain]

The one fact that niggles...and I'm not convinced Zimmerman should be convicted...is: Did Zimmerman really believe Martin would kill him? Anything short of yes, and Zimmerman has blood on his hands. Again, it doesn't mean he should be convicted. But, it's a hard thing to have a young man's death on your conscience--if you are a person of morals.

For us it's about the right to defend ourselves vs. perceptions of profiling. For Zimmerman it's more personal and difficult. The poor jury may well be struggling with the two truths--that Zimmerman certainly did not set out to kill Martin--that he may have done so in self-defense--but, this young man should not have died that night.

And who can deny the perception of many African-Americans that their young are automatically believed to be dangerous--much more so than any other race?

[MorningStar]

And apparently the DOJ got involved. This is messed up. DOJ helped facilitate anti-Zimmerman protests in Florida: FOIA docs - Washington Times

[Windseeker]

This President who stands as a living testiment that an African American can do anything he sets his mind to and that this country is not racist is desperate to take advantage of every opportunity to encite division.

[prisonchaplain]

And apparently the DOJ got involved. This is messed up. DOJ helped facilitate anti-Zimmerman protests in Florida: FOIA docs - Washington Times

I saw this--and the small amount of expenses involved, and thought--just what is this? Was it one person? Two?

While this source is biased too (the Washington Times leans conservative), the explanation offered makes sense: No, The Department Of Justice Did Not Organize Trayvon Martin Rallies | ThinkProgress

Basically, the small contingent went to FL to train the already-organized protestors on how to conduct themselves peacefully. We may or may not agree with federal workers facilitating protestors in any way, but this does not appear to be a case of PROMOTING a cause. More specifically, the workers were not there to gin up anti-Zimmerman sentiment.

[bytor2112]

Ann Coulter is a bit below Westboro Baptist as being filled with hatred and publicity seekers, but not much.

But even a broken clock is right twice a day.

Sources for said hatred? (Or do you just disagree with her direct approach to calling liberalism what it really is?)

[NeuroTypical]

Ugh. Tragedy television - I can only stomach so much of it. Like in 5 minute bursts, once every few months. It just reminds me too much of the 'tattle-tale' mentality from elementary school.

Breaking news! Bobby just said that Jimmy's mom is ugly! I got it on camera!

This case impacts my life, only to the extent that I get a little insight into what life is like for the person who uses his conceal carry gun. "Is it worth becoming the next Zimmerman?" is a good question to ask myself if I'm ever in a situation where I might feel the need to pull my weapon.

It reinforces my overall philosophy of "95 ways to run the heck the other way, 5 ways to defend myself".

[mnn727]

Sources for said hatred?

My source is 99% of her columns. She is one hate filled person looking for publicy

[Just_A_Guy]

"Is it worth becoming the next Zimmerman?" is a good question to ask myself if I'm ever in a situation where I might feel the need to pull my weapon.

That's by design, I think.

[bytor2112]

My source is 99% of her columns. She is one hate filled person looking for publicy

I read her columns, have read some of her books and listened to her speak...and I don't hear or read hatred. Criticism of the left and liberalism...yes...and maybe you perceive that as hatred. I don't....but of course, I see liberalism and the left as mindless ideologs that are bent on destroying American greatness. I guess some may be put off by her directness ( and mine)...but if she were a lib...the left would love her.

[mirkwood]

I am a conservative. I am not an Ann Coulter fan. I think you have just accurately described her.

[Praetorian_Brow]

- I shudder to cite this example, but the columnist is correct.

Disrespectful: Anna Coulter Insults A Muslim Canadian University Student! "Take A Camel" - YouTube

She is a fool, regardless of where I stand on the political spectrum and only in America can you wander around speaking of politics, making money, being a belligerent than actually being a politician.

[bytor2112]

- I shudder to cite this example, but the columnist is correct.

Disrespectful: Anna Coulter Insults A Muslim Canadian University Student! "Take A Camel" - YouTube

She is a fool, regardless of where I stand on the political spectrum and only in America can you wander around speaking of politics, making money, being a belligerent than actually being a politician.

That is simply false...you can do that elsewhere as well. My question is are you equally critical of the plethora of shrill, venomous voices that are adored by the left? As for the "insult"...it was a hostile environment and she wasn't really allowed to speak with hecklers. Context means a lot and Ann has been physically assaulted by students with Pies ( yeah it was pie) because they disagreed with her words.As far as the Vietnam thing...no one is perfect.

Canadian thought and hate speech police...talking about fools. Gotta keep the lefties bathed in liberalism rather than let them be exposed to hearing Coulter in Canadian Universities. In America , slime buckets, like the President of Iran speak in American universities. Much of her comments are based in irreverent humor, sarcasm...hyperbole etc to make a point. The women in the interview with O'Reilly was a moron as were the pea brained students that are so closed minded that they couldnt possibly bare hearing Coulter and have the chance to engage her in civil dialogue...of no, they must protest because she something they are taught, indoctrinated to disagree with because it is ..........mean. Hate speech.....bah

Edited July 12, 2013 by bytor2112

[Windseeker]

Joe biden racist gaffe to indian people

I could post more, Hilary made a racist statement about Indians and Ghandi as I recall.

While we could go all day posting stuff on both sides only one side is ever held accountable.

While I have cringed sometimes at things Coulter has said by in large I think she has been courageous in voicing her views. Her books are best sellers I have not had the chance to read them but would like too.

Back to this case. I think she is spot on.

I'm sad that justice is being so manipulated in this case, the Judge has a clear bias and is far from being impartial.

As stated in an article I've read. There are no winners here.

[mnn727]

I read her columns, have read some of her books and listened to her speak...and I don't hear or read hatred. Criticism of the left and liberalism...yes...and maybe you perceive that as hatred. I don't....but of course, I see liberalism and the left as mindless ideologs that are bent on destroying American greatness. I guess some may be put off by her directness ( and mine)...but if she were a lib...the left would love her.

I am not a liberal as you seem to be inferring. I study the issues and the candidates positions and vote for the person rather than the party, most times it is the Conservative or Libertarian party candidate, occasionally (very seldom) its not.

Coulters "Criticism of the left and liberalism" as you call it meets my requirements as Hate Speech as it crosses the boundaries of mere opinion and delves into the irrational - and Yes, there are people on BOTH sides that are like that.

Edited July 12, 2013 by mnn727

[prisonchaplain]

Ann Coulter is a provoker. She stirs up the base and has no real interest in engaging opposition. If I had a dejected Republican friend who needed cheering up I might take him/her to Ann. If I had a Democrat friend that I wanted to introduce to the reasonableness of conservatism Ann would be low on my list of resources.

[Churchmouse]

Ann Coulter is a provoker. She stirs up the base and has no real interest in engaging opposition. If I had a dejected Republican friend who needed cheering up I might take him/her to Ann. If I had a Democrat friend that I wanted to introduce to the reasonableness of conservatism Ann would be low on my list of resources.

You're right. Would you suggest we all watch MSNBC to get unbiased opinions. EVERYONE pushes their own opinion. She is no more one sided than many liberals. Watch big mouth Chris Matthews sometime

[Windseeker]

You're right. Would you suggest we all watch MSNBC to get unbiased opinions. EVERYONE pushes their own opinion. She is no more one sided than many liberals. Watch big mouth Chris Matthews sometime

Left-Wing Hate Speech -- Michelle Malkin

Chris Mathews calls Mormons Cultists (commenting on how he sees how Conservatives see Mormons..he does this kind of 2nd hand hate speech allot)