BSA Leader Shoots Bear

[Bini]

Unfortunate incident that could have been prevented.

Scout leader could face charges for shooting bear at camp | ksl.com

[kapikui]

The comments on the article made my sick. Apparently, according to some "people" we should let someone not involved in causing the problem get killed to save some poor bear. Yes some scouts left things out they shouldn't have, apparently now we have to evacuate 500 scouts in the middle of the night so the the state (the god of liberalism) can swoop in and save everyone including the bear. The idiocy boggles the mind.

The leader did the correct thing, and the thought that there is even an instants consideration of prosecution of the leader is nauseating and enraging.

[jerome1232]

I think he was right for shooting it, but I also think they deserve some form of reprimand for leaving food out in bear territory. It is their fault the bear was in that position.

You just don't do that (leave out perishables in known bear country). They were made aware of what they should do and they did not do it. By all means, let the charges roll.

[mirkwood]

I think he was right for shooting it, but I also think they deserve some form of reprimand for leaving food out in bear territory. It is their fault the bear was in that position.

You just don't do that (leave out perishables in known bear country). They were made aware of what they should do and they did not do it. By all means, let the charges roll.

Yep, let the charges roll because we can count on a bunch of teenage scouts to think about such things so we should tell the adult leader to let the bear endanger the scouts. Brilliant.

Been around teenage boys much lately? They are kind of short on...well...brains.

I've camped in bear country a few times. Among other tools I have a .308 with me and if a bear puts my family and friends, or anyone near me in danger I will protect them. Good call on the scout leaders part.

[jerome1232]

Yep, let the charges roll because we can count on a bunch of teenage scouts to think about such things so we should tell the adult leader to let the bear endanger the scouts. Brilliant.

Been around teenage boys much lately? They are kind of short on...well...brains.

I've camped in bear country a few times. Among other tools I have a .308 with me and if a bear puts my family and friends, or anyone near me in danger I will protect them. Good call on the scout leaders part.

Yes, I camped with them many times, and you know what? All of our smelly stuff (not sure why I wrote perishables earlier) make it into the bear box. Pay close attention to my words, you'll notice I don't fault him for shooting the bear, it was the right decision. I fault them for not taking precautions to prevent the scenario from happening.

Leaders are accountable for the actions of those they lead. In turn leaders should hold those they lead accountable for their inability to follow simple instructions.

A fine is perfectly fine by me.

Edited July 12, 2013 by jerome1232

[mirkwood]

I did read your words carefully. I think you are sitting in parking lot behind left field.

[jerome1232]

I think you are sitting in parking lot behind left field.

That's where everybody hangs out and drinks beer yes? It's Probably a better time than the game anyways

More seriously, do you seriously think it's okay for kids at a camp, which based on the article has had recent bear activity, to come out of a lesson about what do with their stuff to prevent a bear from coming in and mauling them for their snickers... it's okay, typical kid, to come out of that and say "hey I'll leave my snacks out on the picnic table overnight". Suppose someone got mauled instead of the bear getting shot, would you have less leeway for the kids/troop/leader then?

[bytor2112]

It's bearism...plain and simple...I expect reverend AL, MSNBC and Ranger Smith to protest any day!

Edited July 12, 2013 by bytor2112

[Suzie]

Adults are responsible for children, this incident could have been prevented. Hate when animals get killed like this because of some stupid people. 'Nuff said.

[Guest]

When a BS leader has to shoot a bear because his boys could not follow simple directions to put food away you don't tout him as a hero. You press appropriate charges for camp endangerment. His reward for his quick thinking and courage to shoot the bear is rewarded by the intact lives of his troop.

[Anddenex]

What charges would be appropriate for teenagers thinking they know better than the rules and leave candy out?

We all know that when teenagers are taught something, they obey immediately, so let's place charges on the Scout Leader.

I would agree, a reprimand for the teenagers should be at hand -- charges, no -- reprimand like not being able to participate at camp for the next year seems appropriate to me.

[Just_A_Guy]

When a BS leader . . .

[/JAG suppressing a juvenile giggle.]

My concern is that the guy who gets charged, may not be the guy whose fault it actually was.

[Blackmarch]

The comments on the article made my sick. Apparently, according to some "people" we should let someone not involved in causing the problem get killed to save some poor bear. Yes some scouts left things out they shouldn't have, apparently now we have to evacuate 500 scouts in the middle of the night so the the state (the god of liberalism) can swoop in and save everyone including the bear. The idiocy boggles the mind.

The leader did the correct thing, and the thought that there is even an instants consideration of prosecution of the leader is nauseating and enraging.

yep

[Bini]

Someone might have a better article link but I understand that the troops were told to leave and will not be invited back until next year. Apparently, this has been an ongoing problem with this troop? Absolutely, kids will be kids, that's why it's important that leaders and mentors step up.

Again, an unfortunate incident that COULD HAVE BEEN PREVENTED.

[Backroads]

This very much could have been prevented, but let's keep things separate. The troop should be held liable for acting inappropriately in bear country. And, separately, shooting that bear was the right thing under the wrong circumstances. I blame their bad choices in bear country, but I don't blame them for shooting the bear.

[Just_A_Guy]

In that regard, as I think Bytor implicitly and perceptively noted earlier in this thread, this is much like the Trayvon Martin case (I'm watching closing arguments now). The decision to get out of the truck (for Zimmerman) or leave the candy out on a picnic table at night (by the scouts) was unwise in the extreme; but--under the circumstances that then unfolded--the subsequent shooting seems to have been justifiable.

[Bini]

I got a question that I guess will never be answered as an observer outside of this incident but..

Since the young bear was obviously preoccupied with the left out food (it was reported that the bear payed little to no attention to troops when they tried to "shoo" it), couldn't the leaders have moved nearby scouts further down camp, and called someone in to tranquillise the bear?

It's unfortunate that this event could have been avoided. I agree that if a wild animal is a direct threat to a person, you do whatever it takes to save that person's life. That said, when the animal isn't even focused on you (it's busily eating rubbish left out by YOU), shooting it seems extreme, especially when you can be out of the way and call a park ranger or vet in to tranquillise it.

[Dravin]

Since the young bear was obviously preoccupied with the left out food (it was reported that the bear payed little to no attention to troops when they tried to "shoo" it), couldn't the leaders have moved nearby scouts further down camp, and called someone in to tranquillise the bear?

Two things (among most likely others) that have to be considered:

1) The Layout of the camp. If the bear is in the middle of the camp then it's not like everyone can just walk out the south gate or you'd have people walking towards and past the bear. Or you end up sending them off in all sorts of directions where it would be hard to keep track of everyone. Keep in mind there are ~500 kids according to the video you linked to.

2) That the bear was currently interested in the food doesn't mean it would remain interested in the food until someone with a tranquilizer gun shows up. What happens when it finishes and decides to wonder in the direction of where you told people to go or while you are in the middle of organizing everyone?

Ultimately the DWR will have access to more information than we do and they'll take into consideration things like the above in trying to decide if it was justified or to hit him with intentional take.

Edited July 12, 2013 by Dravin

[Backroads]

I got a question that I guess will never be answered as an observer outside of this incident but..

Since the young bear was obviously preoccupied with the left out food (it was reported that the bear payed little to no attention to troops when they tried to "shoo" it), couldn't the leaders have moved nearby scouts further down camp, and called someone in to tranquillise the bear?

It's unfortunate that this event could have been avoided. I agree that if a wild animal is a direct threat to a person, you do whatever it takes to save that person's life. That said, when the animal isn't even focused on you (it's busily eating rubbish left out by YOU), shooting it seems extreme, especially when you can be out of the way and call a park ranger or vet in to tranquillise it.

My sister, who spent a couple of summers in bear country and has been trained for bear actions, is inconveniently at a Boy Scout camp right now so I can't ask her...

But it seems that away from the situation we can better hope things would have gone perfectly. Hoping the bear would have been distracted long enough is risky.

[Guest]

[/JAG suppressing a juvenile giggle.]

My concern is that the guy who gets charged, may not be the guy whose fault it actually was.

It's the BS Leader's (lol) failure to lead which is the fault here. At camp, he is responsible for checking to make sure the boys did what they were instructed to do. He doesn't sleep unless he has the camp safe and secured. Be it be the lack of a water bucket next to the fire pit or bear food left out or whatever else Boy Scouts are supposed to do...

Not to remove all accountability from the teen-agers, of course. But there's a reason they got juvie hall instead of putting them in with the general population.

[Lakumi]

When a BS leader has to shoot a bear because his boys could not follow simple directions to put food away you don't tout him as a hero. You press appropriate charges for camp endangerment. His reward for his quick thinking and courage to shoot the bear is rewarded by the intact lives of his troop.

My old Scoutleader would have gone Gordon Ramsay on us if we left a camp in such a state in Bear Country (he would in squirrel country, because its bad habits to have, and here in Canada, you really don't know what's lurking in the woods)

[kapikui]

I think he was right for shooting it, but I also think they deserve some form of reprimand for leaving food out in bear territory. It is their fault the bear was in that position.

You just don't do that (leave out perishables in known bear country). They were made aware of what they should do and they did not do it. By all means, let the charges roll.

You're saying you want to criminally charge someone who was likely not involved in causing the problem for protecting people who didn't cause the problem??? Please explain to me the logic or justice to this

[Anddenex]

You're saying you want to criminally charge someone who was likely not involved in causing the problem for protecting people who didn't cause the problem??? Please explain to me the logic or justice to this

I am not sure reprimand === criminally charging someone.

[kapikui]

I got a question that I guess will never be answered as an observer outside of this incident but..

Since the young bear was obviously preoccupied with the left out food (it was reported that the bear payed little to no attention to troops when they tried to "shoo" it), couldn't the leaders have moved nearby scouts further down camp, and called someone in to tranquillise the bear?

It's unfortunate that this event could have been avoided. I agree that if a wild animal is a direct threat to a person, you do whatever it takes to save that person's life. That said, when the animal isn't even focused on you (it's busily eating rubbish left out by YOU), shooting it seems extreme, especially when you can be out of the way and call a park ranger or vet in to tranquillise it.

My understanding is that it happened at night. That would have required waking boys up, evacuating the area, getting a tranquilizer gun and someone to use it into the camp, tracking the bear, shooting it with the tranquilizer, waiting for the bear to go under (sometimes several minutes, during which time the bear often becomes more aggressive), tracking the bear again to find it, dragging the several hundred pound bear to a place where it can be put into a cage and put onto a vehicle, where you then have to lift the bear into the cage and potentially onto the vehicle.

Unfortunately such is not feasible. The general way to relocate a bear is to bait it into a cage trap on a trailer. Once it's caught you move it and let it go. That isn't an option where there is imminent danger. You eliminate the danger, plain and simple.

[Bini]

Agreed. The leader/s should not have slept until camp rounds had been made, to help ensure that safety protocols had been followed through with. This likely would have prevented this whole fiasco.

When a child is in the custody and supervision of a designated adult, that adult is responsible for that child they hold guardianship over. Kids mess up, but when real damage has been done, there needs to be accountability not only for the child but for the adult that was supposedly in charge.