Religious freedom being eroded?

[carlimac]

I don't know if a thread has gone on about this topic because the search button doesn't work. So I will just post this opinion piece from the Des News. I'm most interested in the comment section that is heavy on the " Oh you whiney babies" sentiment. Sometimes I wonder if they aren't right on this.

Anyway, my question is, can anyone list valid examples or obvious ways that our religious freedoms really are being infringed upon by our government or even in the public square? And of course, if there has already been a discussion on this, point me to it. Thanks.

In our opinion: Erosion of religious liberty | Deseret News

[prisonchaplain]

I don't see that we are losing religious freedoms. Clearly, though, Christianity is ebbing as the dominant religious persuasion in our land. Our place of privilege is seeing rapid decline.

[TalkativeIntrovert]

I hear that some schools in Australia no longer allow Christmas craft and activities - however that could be a media beat up! My kids' school simply showed some respect for non Christians by allowing them to do different activities.

We recently had a member of parliament sworn in on the Koran rather than the bible. It has caused quite an uproar, however to me it is demonstrating freedom of religion. There would be little point in him being sworn in on a bible if it is not his belief.

I don't feel that my freedom is being eroded, what I see is a bigger separation of religion and state.

[Gretchen]

My mother is a teacher in the States, and (if I remember correctly) you can talk about Christmas -- but only about Santa Claus and his reindeer. And you do get a Christmas and Easter vacation -- but it is only called Winter and Spring breaks. Oh, and when talking about American history, do not mention that people like George Washington or Abe Lincoln even knew what a Bible was. And keep any explanation of any religious holiday/practice (Christian or otherwise) to an absolute minimum.

I am hoping that is just the area she's in, and not the education system as a whole.

[Traveler]

Some examples of loss of religious freedoms.

1. When I lived in Federal Way Washington we were unable to hold any fundraisers on church property. For examples the Ward sponsored Boy Scout troop was not able to hold a car wash on church property or the church would lose its tax exempt status. Our boy scouts could have a car wash fund raiser - just not on church property. Other churches could hold fundraisers on their property but not LDS. Since I no longer live in Washington I do not know if this infraction of religious freedom is still in effect.

2. Some years ago the state of Utah allowed LDS (or non-LDS students that desired to take non mandatory LDS religion classes) to take seminary classes and receive usable academic credit for high school graduation. Note that the Constitution allows for freedom of assembly, religious freedom and for states to control their own education. However, Utah was mandated by the Federal Government to remove any credit for students taking seminary classes.

The Traveler

[Jenamarie]

Some examples of loss of religious freedoms.

1. When I lived in Federal Way Washington we were unable to hold any fundraisers on church property. For examples the Ward sponsored Boy Scout troop was not able to hold a car wash on church property or the church would lose its tax exempt status. Our boy scouts could have a car wash fund raiser - just not on church property. Other churches could hold fundraisers on their property but not LDS. Since I no longer live in Washington I do not know if this infraction of religious freedom is still in effect.

2. Some years ago the state of Utah allowed LDS (or non-LDS students that desired to take non mandatory LDS religion classes) to take seminary classes and receive usable academic credit for high school graduation. Note that the Constitution allows for freedom of assembly, religious freedom and for states to control their own education. However, Utah was mandated by the Federal Government to remove any credit for students taking seminary classes.

The Traveler

I just recently moved away from Washington, and we held Boy Scout and Girl's Camp fundraisers yearly at our church for several years.

[applepansy]

The most obvious place we've lost our freedom of religion is in schools. Its not just teachers but students too who are breaking some sort of rule if they pray or talk about their beliefs. In some school districts there can not be a prayer given at high school graduation. But when I went to my nephews graduation (95 kids) there were not only prayer but religious hymns sung. The difference between this small town graduation and my children's graduation from a larger city school was remarkable.

I remember a time when it didn't matter who prayed as long as there was a prayer. Now instead of tolerance we have intolerance.

My question is what happened to respect for another person's beliefs? (rhetorical) I saw religious tolerance growing up, including for atheists. I don't know why the tolerance isn't there anymore.

Because we have lost the right to unapologetically and publically worship or even speak about God is some places in the USA, we have allowed Satan to open the door for more intolerance.

[Wingnut]

2. Some years ago the state of Utah allowed LDS (or non-LDS students that desired to take non mandatory LDS religion classes) to take seminary classes and receive usable academic credit for high school graduation. Note that the Constitution allows for freedom of assembly, religious freedom and for states to control their own education. However, Utah was mandated by the Federal Government to remove any credit for students taking seminary classes.

My guess is that this has more to do with teaching qualifications and lack of state regulation than it has to do with religion.

[Windseeker]

Regarding the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services’ mandate requiring Church institutions to provide insurance coverage for contraceptives, sterilizations and abortion-inducing drugs.

Coalition of religious groups signs open letter for religious liberty | Deseret News

"As the Catholic bishops have said from the very beginning, the underlying issue with the HHS Mandate is not about any specific teaching. In fact, other signatories on the letter do not share our view on contraception and probably disagree with us in many other ways, but they understand the core religious freedom issue at stake here," said Archbishop William E. Lori of Baltimore.

That's the reason The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints signed on through Presiding Bishop Gary Stevenson.

[Praetorian_Brow]

Reading the article only reminded me of a cultural inferiority complex.

[Windseeker]

Reading the article only reminded me of a cultural inferiority complex.

I read this post in a snake-like voice.

[Swiper]

I remember a time when it didn't matter who prayed as long as there was a prayer. Now instead of tolerance we have intolerance.

So there would have been no Christians upset if a Muslim was allowed to give a public prayer to Allah and claim that Muhammed is the last prophet of God during a High School graduation?

My question is what happened to respect for another person's beliefs? (rhetorical) I saw religious tolerance growing up, including for atheists. I don't know why the tolerance isn't there anymore.

Tolerance for atheists? The day an open atheist has a reasonable chance to run for the Presidency of the United States I will agree with you. Right now, claiming to be an atheist would be a "kiss of death" for anyone running for public office.

Because we have lost the right to unapologetically and publically worship or even speak about God is some places in the USA, we have allowed Satan to open the door for more intolerance.

So you would be okay if Atheists, Buddhists, Muslims, Satanists, Wiccans, etc, would unapologetically and publically worship and speak about their beliefs in the class rooms, inside court houses, from the podium in the Senate, etc?

[applepansy]

So there would have been no Christians upset if a Muslim was allowed to give a public prayer to Allah and claim that Muhammed is the last prophet of God during a High School graduation?

Tolerance for atheists? The day an open atheist has a reasonable chance to run for the Presidency of the United States I will agree with you. Right now, claiming to be an atheist would be a "kiss of death" for anyone running for public office.

So you would be okay if Atheists, Buddhists, Muslims, Satanists, Wiccans, etc, would unapologetically and publically worship and speak about their beliefs in the class rooms, inside court houses, from the podium in the Senate, etc?

I think you made my point for me. :) Thank you.

[carlimac]

So there would have been no Christians upset if a Muslim was allowed to give a public prayer to Allah and claim that Muhammed is the last prophet of God during a High School graduation?

Tolerance for atheists? The day an open atheist has a reasonable chance to run for the Presidency of the United States I will agree with you. Right now, claiming to be an atheist would be a "kiss of death" for anyone running for public office.

So you would be okay if Atheists, Buddhists, Muslims, Satanists, Wiccans, etc, would unapologetically and publically worship and speak about their beliefs in the class rooms, inside court houses, from the podium in the Senate, etc?

I actually think it would be cool if a Muslim or Buddhist gave a grad prayer as long as they didn't ask their god to destroy the imbeciles.

[Wingnut]

I actually think it would be cool if a Muslim or Buddhist gave a grad prayer as long as they didn't ask their god to destroy the imbeciles.

You mean the infidels? Either way, lol!

[LittleWyvern]

I don't personally see an erosion of religious freedom: instead, I see a general trend to be more opposed to any mixing of religion and government, good or bad. It's not just a trend in the US: the main reason behind the protests in Egypt was that there was that the government was being too religious (which is a remarkable thing for Egyptians to say).

[Wingnut]

Actually, the more I think about it, the less I object to the destruction of imbeciles.

[Anddenex]

So there would have been no Christians upset if a Muslim was allowed to give a public prayer to Allah and claim that Muhammed is the last prophet of God during a High School graduation?

Christians who are upset as a result of a Muslim prayer are intolerant themselves, just as Atheists who are intolerant of prayers being said.

They can pray to Allah as much as they want.

Tolerance for atheists? The day an open atheist has a reasonable chance to run for the Presidency of the United States I will agree with you. Right now, claiming to be an atheist would be a "kiss of death" for anyone running for public office.

Moot and irrelevant. This tolerance trap would be similar to someone saying, "I will believe Republicans are tolerant when a Democrat in a 85% Republican state has a chance to win the election. A Democrat running in a 85% Republican state doesn't equate with intolerance. The fact a Democrat, atheist, muslim, etc... is able to run -- shows tolerance. If a Atheist wasn't even able to run because he/she was atheist -- yes intolerant.

So you would be okay if Atheists, Buddhists, Muslims, Satanists, Wiccans, etc, would unapologetically and publically worship and speak about their beliefs in the class rooms, inside court houses, from the podium in the Senate, etc?

Yes. No problem at all as long as the public speaking in a classroom didn't turn into a religious condemnation on either side and the atheists pointing out all believers are irrational and illogical. If in a Science class, a Muslim or anyone pointed out their belief and why they believe in relation to the subject -- no problem. This is religious freedom and freedom of thought and mind.

[Traveler]

I am beginning to wonder - What do the forum members believe to be "Freedom of Religion" and what laws are needed to be provided by a just government to guarantee freedom of Religion?

The Traveler

[Gretchen]

I am beginning to wonder - What do the forum members believe to be "Freedom of Religion" and what laws are needed to be provided by a just government to guarantee freedom of Religion?

The Traveler

The right to talk about your religion without being told to shut up by people in a higher position (unless they are being obnoxious, obviously)

The right to express that you have a religion/be able to do things like read your Bible/Koran/Torah in public places like the airport without being told that the have to put it away

The right to be able to wear/not wear certain clothing for religious reasons (ex. allowing a Muslim woman to wear her hijab to work)

Just to name the ones off the top of my head.

[Wingnut]

The right to talk about your religion without being told to shut up by people in a higher position (unless they are being obnoxious, obviously)

Define obnoxious.

[carlimac]

You mean the infidels? Either way, lol!

Ya that. ( slaps forehead) Give me a break. I'm trying to write on my phone after spending a frantic morning packing for a trip. I knew it was infidels. Really, I did.

[Jenamarie]

Ya that. ( slaps forehead) Give me a break. I'm trying to write on my phone after spending a frantic morning packing for a trip. I knew it was infidels. Really, I did.

I think you'd have the new fastest growing religion in the world if you had one that sought to destroy imbecils.

[Gretchen]

Define obnoxious.

"You must convert to this religion and if you don't then you are a bad person who will burn in fire" "I do not like your religion, so I'm going to be rude to you and say totally false things about it" stuff like that.

[Gretchen]

Actually, the more I think about it, the less I object to the destruction of imbeciles.

*world debt