Never, ever, ever do business with someone in your ward.

[Guest]

Ever.

[tubaloth]

We find it funny that a guy (Programmer) at our company is in the same ward as our head IT guy. He was hired before I was around, but we know he really isn't that good. Probably for what he is getting paid. But because they are in the same ward we know he will probably never get let go.

[kapikui]

There must be a story behind that....

Particularly of interest to me since I'm about to do just that.

[Backroads]

I've learned not to do business with family or close friends.

[NeuroTypical]

Ya wanna tell us about it Eowyn?

[Bini]

I'm sure there's plenty of people that will disagree but I'm a firm believer in two things: Don't mix business with family, and don't mix business with ward members.

Before we moved, we lived across the street from our bishop, nice man. We liked him enough that my husband offered to redo all his residential electric for free (DH was a contractor). We felt good about it too. But then the bishop started volunteering my husband to do other jobs for members in the ward, and people basically wanted free stuff done. Well supplies and labour aren't free, nor cheap. One couple only paid part of what they said they'd pay and DH had set them up with a sweet generator to run their house during power outages. Never got the rest of it. These days, DH knows that business done on "good faith" with family/ward members is walking a fine line. You're just asking to be taken advantage of unless there's some kind of binding contract.

[Gretchen]

Bini, I hate to play devil's advocate, but it could be that the bishop assumed that since your husband was willing to help him for free, he'd be willing to do the same for others. He could have had his heart in the right place, but unfortunately, he could not prevent people from taking advantage of your husband.

Edited July 25, 2013 by Gretchen
Speleng iz mi bestt subgekt

[Guest]

We bought, via our retirement account, a little investment property near the local college. But the sidewalks around it were old and lifted, so our insurance company deemed them a hazard and wanted them fixed.

Long story short, there's a super nice guy in our ward that was out of work and has done a lot of concrete work before. We talked to him over the winter and he gave us a bid. We told the insurance company it would be done in the spring. The old sidewalk has been removed, but that's it, and we're sitting here at the end of summer.

Since the retirement account owns it and not us personally (if that makes any sense), he already billed the retirement account for parts and labor and has had his money for months, but seems to see no urgency in actually doing the work. Now, as you can imagine, the insurance company is breathing down our necks. . .

It's all a mess and has me terribly upset.

[Bini]

Bini, I hate to play devil's advocate, but it could be that the bishop assumed that since your husband was willing to help him for free, he'd be willing to do the same for others. He could have had his heart in the right place, but unfortunately, he could not prevent people from taking advantage of your husband.

Exactly. Not blaming it on the bishop. I'm saying this is why we no longer do business on good faith with family or ward members, because often times they expect freebies.

[Bini]

Sorry for your stress, Eowyn. My opinion is that it's easy to put things on the back burner or slow track when you're doing business with family or people close to you like in your ward. You don't get jobs done timely, or you don't get paid back money you're owed. It's tricky.

[Guest]

Now that we've bought our forever house in the ward I guess we're obligated to make as many relationships as possible as awkward as we can.

[Wingnut]

These days, DH knows that business done on "good faith" with family/ward members is walking a fine line. You're just asking to be taken advantage of unless there's some kind of binding contract.

This. too many people do business with family, friend, or ward members and do it on good faith. Contracts, contracts, contracts!!

[Suzie]

It's all a mess and has me terribly upset.

I'm sorry to hear about it Eowyn. If it was me, I would be fuming!

In my experience, I realized that a lot of members think they should get free services just because you attend the same ward or you belong to the same Church. Business is business for me, and my job is what allows me to pay the bills and should be respected. Now, I did offer free services in the past to people who really need it and asked me about it but others did not need it but they tried to take full advantage and it got me quite upset. So if a member asks me again for my services, I am usually straightforward and say something like "Sure, you can call me to make an appointment and I'll let you know my fees". That's usually the last time I hear about them.

[Finrock]

I'm an IT professional. I've done lots of business with ward members over the years fixing computers and what not. I appreciate ward members who approach me and make it clear that they are not looking for handouts (they say such things as "I don't want the Mormon discount"). There are those who expect work to be done for free. I always let people know up front that I charge a fee for my services but I don't bother with contracts and such. I decide on a case by case basis whether I do a job for charity or not.

Over the years I really haven't had any issues.

Sucks to have someone promise to do a job but then not do it. Hopefully in your case, Eowyn, it'll get done soon enough.

Regards,

Finrock

Edited July 25, 2013 by Finrock

[bytor2112]

I have worked with very few Ward members, but do have a few that are clients. I am very selective and only work with higher networth ward members that are also seasoned investors. I do provide counsel and advice or a point in the right direction to others if asked.

[NeuroTypical]

"Hi concrete dude. Look - the insurance company is breathing down my neck. They're making life hard for me, and I have to get this done. I need you to commit to having the work done by [date], or I'll need my money back. I totally understand if you can't make the date, and of course I'll only need the money refunded for the work you haven't already done. Sorry if I didn't make the urgency clear when we spoke before."

Clear expectations kills awkwardness.

[Guest]

"Hi concrete dude. Look - the insurance company is breathing down my neck. They're making life hard for me, and I have to get this done. I need you to commit to having the work done by [date], or I'll need my money back. I totally understand if you can't make the date, and of course I'll only need the money refunded for the work you haven't already done. Sorry if I didn't make the urgency clear when we spoke before."

Clear expectations kills awkwardness.

That's almost exactly what I sent him last night. It will still feel weird to go to church and teach a class to someone we basically just fired. Oh well, at least I have an engagement Sunday that will keep me from having to be in class this week.

[Dravin]

That's almost exactly what I sent him last night. It will still feel weird to go to church and teach a class to someone we basically just fired. Oh well, at least I have an engagement Sunday that will keep me from having to be in class this week.

It could be worse. In One Good Man a Bishop has to lay off one of this ward members and then meet with them concerning financial assistance (IIRC).

[Guest]

I remember that, Dravin. Ouch.

[Jenamarie]

In addition to being cautious about doing business with church members, I think it would also be a lesson in providing them with all of the money for the work upfront, rather than spreading it out as the project goes on. There can be less feelings of urgency to move forward with the work if they already have the "fruits of their labors" resting in their bank account.

I hope you're able to find a reputable and affordable person to finish the work! And limited awkwardness.

[Guest]

Paying before the work is complete is definitely not how we prefer to do things, but because of the nature of the retirement account that owns it and how it's managed (which isn't entirely in our hands) it had to be that way.

[Traveler]

One of the great lessons and things I inherited from my father was how to do business. My father obtained the same from his father-in-law. It is really a very simple means to do business - which is anything where there is an exchange of money or other valuables.

It is called a contract. One exception is the immediate exchange - the here is $100 for that bicycle.

Contracts are really quite simple:

Part 1: A list of goods and services to be provided

Part 2: The amount to be paid or other goods or serves to be provided in return.

Part 3: A simple schedule of when the project begins and by when there will be a completion (it is most important to note what constitutes completion). The schedule also indicates when payments will be made and milestones that are met to receive interim payments.

Part 4: A non-compliance agreement. A direct statement of what will occur if one party or the other does not do what is agreed to in the contract. This can spell out for example any "penlites" for extending the schedule or it could specify no penlites for a schedule change that made following certain met milestones and agreed to by both parties but with additional penlites if the new schedule is not met.

Growing up I signed my first contract with my father at age 8. On several occasions since I have done business with my father, other family members, neighbors, ward members and many other people. Following the lessons (traditions) of my fathers I have never once ever had a problem. That is not to say I have never had problems doing business - just that I have never had problems doing business according to the methods and traditions of my fathers. I have not kept records (or score) but I have done business on occasions without a contract and I would estimate that about 2/3's of those situations have ended in some disagreement.

The Traveler

[Dravin]

I think it would also be a lesson in providing them with all of the money for the work upfront, rather than spreading it out as the project goes on. There can be less feelings of urgency to move forward with the work if they already have the "fruits of their labors" resting in their bank account.

It is smart to pay when the work is done, but if I'm understanding the situation correctly the contractor billed the retirement account company which then paid. So it sounds like Eowyn didn't get a chance to insist on payment upon completion.

Edit: Sheesh, talk about slow on the draw, a whole 14 minutes.

Edited July 25, 2013 by Dravin

[Jenamarie]

Admittedly, I don't have much experience with retirement accounts. DH and I have one, but other than the regular automatic withdrawal it takes from his paycheck, I have no idea how it actually works.

[Drpepper]

Its one of my personal 10 Commandments not to do business with members. I have been burnt on several occasions and it makes it very difficult sitting across them in an Endowment Room.