Fast Food Strike

[mrmarklin]

These protesters need a lesson in economics. Furthermore, if anything, they should be protesting the income tax and the Federal Reserve!

I for one don't mind paying a little more so that those in the service and food industries can make a decent wage.

That being said, labor is only worth so much. And unskilled labor is worth even less. So yes, an economics lesson is very much in order.

My view of these jobs is the following: They're starter jobs. Life skills can be learned such as showing up on time, doing a good job, obeying orders from superiors, having integrity, etc. These skills (as an employer I know this!) can be in very short supply among certain members of society.

Here is a true story: I know a woman who is a manager at McDonalds. She started at the bottom, but applied the skills above. She got more hours, was promoted through the ranks, and became the manager after about 15 years. Being a manager entitles her to pension, health care benefits and a fairly decent wage. She's not getting rich, but having taken the opportunity to work her way up, did so.

[talisyn]

But to look at it very simplistically, when you raise the minimum wage, prices go up accordingly. So how much is really gained?

I don't think it is feasible for every job in America to be a "living wage" job. Does a teenager trying to earn money to buy his first cell phone need a "living wage" salary?

What is a "living wage" anyway? The minimum wage here in Oregon is higher than the Federal minimum wage, but the cost of housing is so high, it would take up the majority of your salary.

The problem with not raising the minimum wage, is, the prices went up, are currently going up, and will continue to go up, while wages have been stagnant at best.

[MarginOfError]

I agree that correlation in this case does indicate causation; but I think you've got the causation exactly backwards. The lack of self discipline that gets people sent to jail, flunking school, doped up, and knocked up, will also tend to keep people in poverty. Aren't there studies out there about the huge percentage of people who win obscene amounts of money in the lottery, and ten years later they're right back in the slums?

As long as certain communities scorn those who obey the law, work hard in school, and abstain from drugs and sex, as "putting on airs" or "acting white" or "Oreos" or whatever--you won't end poverty; and it doesn't matter how much money you throw at the problem in the meantime.

I'm not sold on the methods of this study, but it was relevant to the topic.

Poverty and cognitive impairment: Study shows money troubles make decision-making difficult. - Slate Magazine

[FunkyTown]

I'm unsure what the argument is here: A bunch of people who want to get paid more are pushing to get paid more.

The company can either pay more, or not. If the company is paying enough, there will be plenty of people willing to do the job. If they aren't, then they'll have to increase pay to make sure they get enough people.

This seems like economics 101 - Your value is dependent upon other people's need of your service.

[Dravin]

I'm unsure what the argument is here: A bunch of people who want to get paid more are pushing to get paid more.

The company can either pay more, or not. If the company is paying enough, there will be plenty of people willing to do the job. If they aren't, then they'll have to increase pay to make sure they get enough people.

This seems like economics 101 - Your value is dependent upon other people's need of your service.

Yep, it's really not different, in concept, to businesses negotiating over the price of a product or service.

Edited September 4, 2013 by Dravin

[NightSG]

The company can either pay more, or not. If the company is paying enough, there will be plenty of people willing to do the job. If they aren't, then they'll have to increase pay to make sure they get enough people.

Exactly; and I have yet to see a fast food place that wasn't getting a steady stream of applications.

Quite frankly, retail and similar work is an opportunity to learn, and more importantly, to network. I can't count the times I've been picked for a job in large part because the interviewer remembered me as the professional looking tech who had fixed the office computers, (while the competition's field techs looked like Carrot Top after a three-day bender) or the pawnshop assistant who made sure he knew how to field strip and clean the hunting rifle he bought.

[Traveler]

I think there is misdirection and a hidden agenda. First off many protesters walking a picket line are not employees of the company being picketed. Often they are individuals paid by a union to picket. And often they are not being paid the wages that are determined to be "a decent wage". The good thing is that they are often homeless or other under employed individuals.

It is hard to justify such "Protesters". In the case of various wage earners in the fast food sector - they have no idea why there are protesters that do not work in the industry. It is my speculation (conformed by others) that the actual agenda of the protest is not really an increased wage for workers but a hope to increase union membership (and dues being paid to the union).

The Traveler

Edited September 5, 2013 by Traveler

[FunkyTown]

I don't think there's any hidden agenda here: Unions want more members for more power. People want more money. Companies want to pay less money.

There is a conflict here and the three groups are trying to resolve this the way they know how - The workers are striking, the fast food restaurants are ignoring it and the unions are using their resources to try to tip this in favour of the workers.

I'm unsure how this is even news. If enough people want to work at McDonald's for what they're paying, the workers can stand outside until the cows come home. Won't make a lick of difference.

If there aren't enough people, the restaurants will have to pony up the dough.

Simple. Effective.

[Just_A_Guy]

I'm not sold on the methods of this study, but it was relevant to the topic.

Poverty and cognitive impairment: Study shows money troubles make decision-making difficult. - Slate Magazine

I can sympathize with that argument with respect to the nuances of money management or career planning or that kind of thing. But the choices to engage in crime, make babies outside of marriage, use drugs, or blow off so many school assignments that you actually fail your classes--the behaviors we were discussing--those, I think, are pretty basic.

I mean, surely the study's authors don't really expect me to believe that a kid isn't going to go out and have sex--or will suddenly "just say no" to drugs--merely because his parents have $10k in savings?

[MarginOfError]

I can sympathize with that argument with respect to the nuances of money management or career planning or that kind of thing. But the choices to engage in crime, make babies outside of marriage, use drugs, or blow off so many school assignments that you actually fail your classes--the behaviors we were discussing--those, I think, are pretty basic.

I mean, surely the study's authors don't really expect me to believe that a kid isn't going to go out and have sex--or will suddenly "just say no" to drugs--merely because his parents have $10k in savings?

To be fair, the study was about cognitive impairment in adults. Extrapolating this to teenagers is probably unfair--we already know teenagers are inherently cognitively impaired. However having cognitively impaired adults at home may have negative impacts on the children who don't have the benefit of learning as much about decision making from their cognitively impaired parents as their more well off contemporaries.

Again, not saying I completely buy the conclusions of the study, but it was timely and, I thought, worthy of consideration.

[talisyn]

I think the whole problem is the lack of respect for physical labor, and a huge disrespect for those who do work for you. I also think that this is a problem that won't be solved until the Second Coming. We are all, at heart, despotic to those who we feel we are better than, because if they were worth anything they wouldn't make hamburgers or tell you where the laundry soap is at Wal-Mart. But we know this is wrong, so we make excuses as to why retail and fast food are bad career choices which ultimately result in it being completely and totally the fault of the workers that they don't get paid a living wage.

It's probably a good thing most of us aren't really rich.

[Backroads]

I think the whole problem is the lack of respect for physical labor, and a huge disrespect for those who do work for you. I also think that this is a problem that won't be solved until the Second Coming. We are all, at heart, despotic to those who we feel we are better than, because if they were worth anything they wouldn't make hamburgers or tell you where the laundry soap is at Wal-Mart. But we know this is wrong, so we make excuses as to why retail and fast food are bad career choices which ultimately result in it being completely and totally the fault of the workers that they don't get paid a living wage.

It's probably a good thing most of us aren't really rich.

I see your point, and largely agree with it.

But to expand on my original complaint, I do believe that skill does warrant pay. Talk all you want about where minimum wage should be and what constitutes a living wage, I do have trouble with the idea that a low-skill job should deserve more pay than a professional job.

[Still_Small_Voice]

In my own opinion I think people who have skills that are hard to get should get paid more money because they had to work hard to get those skills and likely had to pay for schooling.

I do think many employees are under paid and many Corporate Executives are paid too much though. I don't think we need any more laws on this matter as their is enough red tape for all of us to deal with.

Where is the balance or what is the solution? Until men want to not oppress the hireling in his wages and workers want to put in an honest effort for the wages they earn the situation will not get better.

[mnn727]

Minimum wage was designed for entry level positions NOT for someone to support a family on.

Every time minimum wage has gone up prices go up also.

Min wage was $1.60 in 1972, McD's hamburgers were 17 cents, gas was 17.9 cents a gallon*, Campbell's soup was 4 cans for $1, smokes were 25 cents a pack. Average new car was $3520

Compare minimum wage and prices today.

* first time filling tank on my own car, I went to a cut rate station so I wouldn't have to pay 25.9 cents a gal at a full service station. Cut rate means they still pumped it for you but didn't check your oil, wash your windows or check your tire pressure and add air if needed which full service stations did

Edited September 6, 2013 by mnn727

[NightSG]

Min wage was $1.60 in 1972, McD's hamburgers were 17 cents, gas was 17.9 cents a gallon*, Campbell's soup was 4 cans for $1, smokes were 25 cents a pack. Average new car was $3520

Compare minimum wage and prices today.

Let's see; an hour of minimum wage in:

1972

• 9 McD's burgers
• 8.9 gallons of gas
• 6 cans of good soup
• 6 packs of cigarettes

2013

• 7 burgers (dollar menu)
• 2 gallons of gas (at best)
• A case of ramen noodles
• one pack of cigarettes

2200 hours to buy a car in 1972, or 4552 hours now. So who was it that claimed that minimum wage increases don't cause prices to increase to the point where the earner has less buying power?

[Traveler]

My father was one of 14 children raised in a 3 bedroom home as the son of a sheep herder. They cooked in a wood burning stove – which also heated their water when they wanted to take a bath or do laundry. Also the house did not have running water (pump in the kitchen) and an outhouse out back. My father worked for much of his life earning very little. But always saving and investing.

I would like to say that growing up – I was also poor but that is not the truth. But I thought we were poor. I slept sideways in a single bed (feet hanging over the edge) with 2 brothers – we grew most of our vegetables in a garden, fruit in trees planted in our yard and meat from chickens and rabbits that we raised or what we could hunt and kill. I remember that getting bologna sandwiches on homemade waffles or pancakes for school lunch was a special treat. Age 8 in my family was old enough to get a job to pay for school clothes, personal items and entertainment. I remember working several weeks for a neighbor for an old used bicycle. There was no such thing as minimum wage. Dad required that we save for college and a mission – going to college or on a mission was optional for saving was not.

My point – my father was a school teacher and an artist (do not know that he ever earned regular money as an artist) but by time I reached college age my father was a multi-millionaire. According to him being wealthy was just about the easiest thing to do in life and he could teach anybody to be wealthy in a few minutes. He would say – you only have to learn two things. Both of which can be mastered by anyone in less than a minute of trying.

First Thing: Learn to love to work. He would say working hard is not the secret to wealth but learning to love and enjoy work is. He would say that the greatest joy of working came from doing something with joy and happiness that everybody else hated, complained about and avoided. He said that being assigned or asked to do something other wouldn’t and being happy about it would open doors for you that would never open for anybody else.

Second thing: Spend less than you earn.

I have never talked to an economically successful person that said that the road to wealth is paved with the attitude to get as much money as you can out of anything and everything that you do - or in other words get as much pay as you can for as little effort as possible. But I have heard this concept over and over again by fools that never have been even close to being rich and when things get economically difficult – they are the first to be fired.

The Traveler