I'm Shocked

[mdfxdb]

I've been a member my whole life, served a mission..yada yada and it didn't really dawn on me until I was 40. All I knew about was Emma. I mean does anyone know any of the wives names other then Emma? In all the movies on his life I've seen it certainly doesn't depict his wives.

After comming to this realization, It doesn't discount all my experiences. Anyway. I still believe Joseph was a true Prophet of God.

I can relate to the OP and I don't really don't think it's necessary to impugn or disparage her.

off the top of my head: Emma Smith, Fanny Alger, the Partridge sisters, Eliza R Snow. I know there were many others. And the conclusion is.....so what.

[bytebear]

I don't count Fanny Alger. The rumors just don't fit the facts.

[Guest]

Helen Mar Kimball. And I know her name because anti-Mormons have a way of using her as a bludgeon. Like, if an LDS or investigator doesn't know about her, then they scrub their hands in glee and anticipation because... they think that for sure, this LDS is going to leave the fold once they find out who she is... or some such.

Edited October 31, 2013 by anatess

[Bini]

I have little to zero interest in Joseph Smith's wives and sealings. They happened, so be it. It would require a lot more of me to embrace the idea concerning my own husband.

[Feta]

Why is it not OK to practice polygamy now? It's still scripture. Its was revelation from God. It seems like we should still be practicing it. How and why has the church distanced itself so far from polygamy?

[Bini]

Why is it not OK to practice polygamy now? It's still scripture. Its was revelation from God. It seems like we should still be practicing it. How and why has the church distanced itself so far from polygamy?

Because our modern Prophets have received revelation from the Lord not to use polygamy anymore. So basically, the word has come from the Lord Himself.

[estradling75]

Why is it not OK to practice polygamy now? It's still scripture. Its was revelation from God. It seems like we should still be practicing it. How and why has the church distanced itself so far from polygamy?

Doctrine and Covenants 56

4 Wherefore I, the Lord, command and revoke, as it seemeth me good; and all this to be answered upon the heads of the rebellious, saith the Lord.

It is currently revoked per this

Official Declaration 1 

[Just_A_Guy]

Why is it not OK to practice polygamy now? It's still scripture. Its was revelation from God. It seems like we should still be practicing it. How and why has the church distanced itself so far from polygamy?

As you read through the link Estradling provided, be sure to read the explanatory material that follows OD-1. Wilford Woodruff was given a very specific vision of what would happen if he did not issue the Manifesto, and an account of that vision is included.

And, yes. D&C 132 is still scripture. Those eternal laws still apply to--say--a widower who remarries. But the keys to the sealing power, and to plural marriage, were always held by the Presiding High Priest (aka "president") of the Church; and the presiding high priests of the Church since Woodruff (well, Joseph F. Smith, if you want to get nit-picky) have refused to authorize men to be sealed to additional women where they already have one wife still living.

[Feta]

Thanks everyone for your responses. I appreciate the time you've put into it.

Just thought I'd let you know that in the last few days since I originally posted I've been obsessively researching and gathering information. One bit of information has led to another, and I've learned more in the last few days about the church than I ever learned the my previous years. Josephs polygamy was just the tip of the iceberg.

I've done a large amount of reading, thinking and praying, and I've decided that I can't belong to this church anymore. I've come to the conclusion that it is very man made, and it's leaders are not and have never been prophets of God. I plan on resigning my membership soon.

I feel sick, like the world has been flipped upside down, but I feel that I am right and the sickness will pass. I'm strangely comforted and excited to finally feel like I have logical answers to all my questions.

I wish everyone well in their search for truth!

[NeuroTypical]

Hi Feta,

Did you read any of the books we suggested?

[Vort]

Hi Feta,

Did you read any of the books we suggested?

No need. He checked on the internet, so he knows he got rock-solid reliable information.

[mdfxdb]

Long time lurker creates his profile on 10/25, declares 20 yr membership in church, seminary, etc. then after 6 days of "research" throws it all out the window............

[Just_A_Guy]

Guys, I'm willing to take Feta's self-description at face value.

Feta:

Before you leave, I would ask you to do those of us who have been respectfully engaging you over the past few days, the courtesy of reading one last link:

Letter to a Doubter

(Yeah, it's long. Sorry 'bout that.)

Edited October 31, 2013 by Just_A_Guy

[Bini]

Long time lurker creates his profile on 10/25, declares 20 yr membership in church, seminary, etc. then after 6 days of "research" throws it all out the window............

There's so many factors with OP's situation. It's possible to be a member for a long time and be oblivious to LDS history and certain doctrine, especially, if you're not really paying attention? Honestly, I myself don't recall many lessons about Joseph Smith and his multiple wives - not in primary - not in YW - and not in the adult Sunday school. Granted, I have struggled with activity on and off so perhaps I wasn't so keen on learning much about it to begin with. The time when it really came to light was when I went to the visiting centre and watched their movies about Joseph Smith and his life. Even then it didn't talk much about polygamy etc. Possibly other people could be in the same boat?

[mdfxdb]

There's so many factors with OP's situation. It's possible to be a member for a long time and be oblivious to LDS history and certain doctrine, especially, if you're not really paying attention? Honestly, I myself don't recall many lessons about Joseph Smith and his multiple wives - not in primary - not in YW - and not in the adult Sunday school. Granted, I have struggled with activity on and off so perhaps I wasn't so keen on learning much about it to begin with. The time when it really came to light was when I went to the visiting centre and watched their movies about Joseph Smith and his life. Even then it didn't talk much about polygamy etc. Possibly other people could be in the same boat?

This is entirely possible.

However, what does him having multiple wifes have to do with him being a prophet? The point of church lessons and visitors centers are not to give church history lessons, but to teach about Christ centered lessons and experiences.

[Bini]

This is entirely possible.

However, what does him having multiple wifes have to do with him being a prophet? The point of church lessons and visitors centers are not to give church history lessons, but to teach about Christ centered lessons and experiences.

Agreed. That kind of highlights my point better. Church lessons and visitor centres aren't LDS history lessons. I suppose that is information you learn per your own research. And yes, Joseph Smith was a righteous man and if you believe the gospel, he was a true Prophet of the Lord, regardless of his relationship dynamics which we may not fully understand or feel at peace with.

[Windseeker]

off the top of my head: Emma Smith, Fanny Alger, the Partridge sisters, Eliza R Snow. I know there were many others. And the conclusion is.....so what.

Yeah...that was my conclusion as well, if you read my post.

However, what does him having multiple wifes have to do with him being a prophet? The point of church lessons and visitors centers are not to give church history lessons, but to teach about Christ centered lessons and experiences.

Oh..I don't know. Perhaps it's because we are taught that to even look at another women to lust after her is adultery...and there's some guy out there claiming to be a Prophet and collecting wives, some already married and some that are only 14 years old.

So it's not hard to see why some would have a problem with it.

I don't really think the defensive/sarcastic/belittling approach some are taking is working. When has it ever?

[carlimac]

I knew about polygamy from a very early age. My own gr. grandfathers were polygamists. ( Don't try to figure out the math. There are wide spans in generations in my family. ) But I didn't learn about the specifics of Joseph's many wives until I was in my 40s. I grew up in Salt Lake City, BIC, 5th generation LDS.

So it doesn't surprise me at all that someone could attend church for two decades and not know about this stuff. It shook me to the core at first. Then I had an overwhelming peace come over me and all the fear left. I'm neither afraid or angry about what I don't understand. There will be explanations for everything in time. Much of history is misconstrued and tainted with subjectivity of the teller. Even first person autobiographies aren't always accurate because details can get fuzzy after a short amount of time.

One thing to do is to scrupulously avoid the anti-Mormon websites. They are just not worth digging into. There is too much negativity and even evil emanating from them. Too easy to be spiritually damaged. I don't know if I even recommend FAIR. Sometimes it seems as if they are trying too hard to come up with answers to questions that we don't need the answer to yet. Just pray and read the standard works and other books on LDS doctrine. The Holy Ghost will confirm truth.

[bytebear]

I agree. The spirit withdraws, or warns with unpleasant feelings when we read things that don't make sense. That's the exact feeling that the anti-Mormons want you to feel. They want to you be confused, to feel betrayed, and they will twist the truth, omit facts and outright lie to get you to doubt your testimony. I have had a few run ins in my 20s and 30s, but the more I study, the more I am convinced that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God. And that Brigham Young was likewise the successor of the church. Compare polygamy of the early church to the Warren Jeffs of the world, and you will see that the practices are night and day. Joseph Smith was anything but a womanizer. Nothing outside of anti-Mormon and dissatisfied former members of the time paints him as that. He had lots of enemies, including some who were booted out of the church for "spritual wifery", an abusive practice more akin to what we see in current day polygamists. Smith kicked people out for using the practice to fulfill their lusts.

So, my advice is if you want to study the history, be prepared to study it all, because 90% of what you easily find is superficial and false. There are hundreds attacking and only a handful defending. Most Mormons simply don't have the energy to keep up with all the accusations, and frankly the church and the Lord don't really care what is said. They've lived with slander for a very long time and know that it's up to you to find the truth yourself. Rely on the Holy Ghost. Read the testimony of Joseph Smith, or the trials of the pioneers, or the dedication prayers of temples, or your own patriarchal blessing, and see how the Holy Ghost affects you.

[Feta]

Hi Feta,

Did you read any of the books we suggested?

I did not read "Rough Stone Rolling", but I read "Know Man Knows My History", and "By his Own Hand Upon Papyrus". By this time I had decided that Joseph Smith probably was not what he claimed to be. If he's not a prophet, then the church is not true.

I started wondering if there was a god at all. I read "The God Delusion" by Richard Dawkins. I realized almost everything I've seen in my life can be more easily explained without mentioning god. Sure, I can attribute a lot of things to god, but there's no need - everything makes more sense without him. I've realized I've never had an answer to a prayer. I've realized that I've felt "the spirit" while enjoying incredible music, books, and movies that are not up to church standards. Rarely did I feel that at church, and never in the temple.

I'm getting excited about atheism! There's no need to do mental gymnastics trying to explain and rationalize things.

I'm sorry, I know it doesn't make much sense to talk about this on an LDS forum.

Edited November 1, 2013 by Eowyn
derogatory comments about the Church and/or its leaders removed

[Vort]

No Man Knows My History? Fawn Brodie? Seriously?

Okay, whatever. To each his own. As long as you're into Fawn Brodie, you might want to check out the Superman comic book series to get a good intro to physics.

Edited November 1, 2013 by Vort

[Guest]

I did not read "Rough Stone Rolling", but I read "Know Man Knows My History", and "By his Own Hand Upon Papyrus". By this time I had decided that Joseph Smith probably was not what he claimed to be. If he's not a prophet, then the church is not true.

I started wondering if there was a god at all. I read "The God Delusion" by Richard Dawkins. I realized almost everything I've seen in my life can be more easily explained without mentioning god. Sure, I can attribute a lot of things to god, but there's no need - everything makes more sense without him. I've realized I've never had an answer to a prayer. I've realized that I've felt "the spirit" while enjoying incredible music, books, and movies that are not up to church standards. Rarely did I feel that at church, and never in the temple.

I'm getting excited about atheism! There's no need to do mental gymnastics trying to explain and rationalize things. The easiest way to explain Joseph Smith is to say he was a very charismatic, intelligent, energetic liar.

I'm sorry, I know it doesn't make much sense to talk about this on an LDS forum.

Your decision is okay. We are all here to find out the truth for ourselves and if you conclude that atheism is true, then it is what it is. But, it makes no sense. So, for you, if it is not easy, then it is not true? Atheism is true because it is easy to understand? So... rocket science is not true? How about integral calculus. Is that true? It is much harder to understand integral calculus than it is the Plan of Salvation for most folks... I don't even think my high school math teacher can rationalize integral calculus. It would be interesting what kind of mental gymnastics he'll have to go through to explain that one. It would be much easier for him to say integral calculus is not worth studying because it is a lie.

Anyway, the Spirit can't be felt unless one applies Faith. It is perfectly fine to become a non-LDS or even an atheist. But atheism proclaims for a fact that there is no God. It is a belief that There Is No God. So to come up with that conclusion, you have to KNOW that God does NOT exist. That requires evidence - the same evidence that the LDS have to show that there is a God. This is completely different from saying you don't know if God exists (agnostic)... which by virtue of you not knowing, you don't have to produce any evidence. It is much harder to provide evidence that God does not exist, than to provide evidence that He does exist... so if you're avoiding mental gymnastics, you picked the wrong camp.

Edited November 1, 2013 by anatess

[Windseeker]

I'm getting excited about atheism! There's no need to do mental gymnastics trying to explain and rationalize things.

Atheism is an interesting religion.

Yet, material explanations cannot lead to the understanding of non-material consciousness, but it trys.

[bytebear]

I would say that living life as a atheist is easier than living it as a Mormon (or any faith for that matter). But it isn't a better life.

[NeuroTypical]

I did not read "Rough Stone Rolling", but I read "Know Man Knows My History", and "By his Own Hand Upon Papyrus".

You've taken a really interesting path here, Feta.

Consider an analogy: If we were a chess club, you are a member of the club who is reevaluating membership. We suggested some books on the history and nobility of the game. Instead, you went and read some books by chess critics. One written by someone who believes checkers is a superior game, one who believes that board games in general are stupid. The books you read highlight, magnify, and in some cases just plain make up stuff about the game of chess and it's history. They cherry-pick sources, evidence, and history, pushing the best to the back, bringing the worst into the foreground, and sometimes distorting both out of shape.

If you are ever interested in why people actually like chess, our book suggestions stand.

Setting aside the analogy and coming back to reality, books are of secondary importance to one's personal relationship with Jesus Christ. I'm guessing from your comments about atheism, that you either never had one, or thought you did but realized you didn't. So, wherever your path takes you, I would suggest that you at least give the gospel a try, and seek to resolve your doubt about whether there actually is a God or not. I wish you the best of luck.