What Is Your Favorite Evidence for Joseph Smith?

[NeuroTypical]

You are absolutely correct. Either Smith was really quite an evil man who deliberately tricked millions of people (counting modern Mormons) into believing a total lie about God OR he was a prophet of God. That's it. There is no way he could have been confused or delusional or anything else...He either was a prophet, or he was a very, very bad person.

If you survey LDS critics, they come up with a few more:

* He was a good man deceived by an angel of Satan

* He was a good man who just fooled himself into believing his own story

* He was an ignorant dupe/puppet of Sidney Rigdon

* He suffered a single hallucination of the first vision brought on by a poison or diet imbalance, and wishful thinking did the rest

* He was mentally ill, delusional, maybe megalomaniacal

* He was just a bad businessman who got lucky, sort of like Harold Hill from Music Man or maybe Oscar Schindler

But you're right - he either is what he claims to be, or he isn't. Back in my period of searching, I basically of the same opinion you're of right now.

Doubt is good. It helps you avoid the umpteen snake oil salesmen peddling false salvation. Doubt should be resolved. Good luck!

[jinc1019]

If you survey LDS critics, they come up with a few more:

* He was a good man deceived by an angel of Satan

* He was a good man who just fooled himself into believing his own story

* He was an ignorant dupe/puppet of Sidney Rigdon

* He suffered a single hallucination of the first vision brought on by a poison or diet imbalance, and wishful thinking did the rest

* He was mentally ill, delusional, maybe megalomaniacal

* He was just a bad businessman who got lucky, sort of like Harold Hill from Music Man or maybe Oscar Schindler

But you're right - he either is what he claims to be, or he isn't. Back in my period of searching, I basically of the same opinion you're of right now.

Doubt is good. It helps you avoid the umpteen snake oil salesmen peddling false salvation. Doubt should be resolved. Good luck!

I appreciate that and your kind words!

[bytebear]

It's funny, because if you read the negative stuff, you have to wonder how he got tens of thousands of followers. So there has to be more to it than just he was an evil meglomaniac. He made enemies but among those who were witness to the miracles, they still claimed those events as true.

[jinc1019]

It's funny, because if you read the negative stuff, you have to wonder how he got tens of thousands of followers. So there has to be more to it than just he was an evil meglomaniac. He made enemies but among those who were witness to the miracles, they still claimed those events as true.

Yes you are correct about the fact that many of his followers absolutely believed he was legitimate. "Stupid dopes," many non-Mormons would say, but not me. Even if I don't ever accept Mormonism, I believe that there, for whatever reason, was something special about Smith and that many thousands (and eventually millions) of people believed (and still do believe) in his message. It's unjust to insult those dead souls who gave up so much to follow what they truly believed in without weighing all of the evidence very carefully.

[jinc1019]

And even then, we should always be respectful of the beliefs of others!

[pam]

And even then, we should always be respectful of the beliefs of others!

That's a huge statement right there. We don't have to agree but we should be respectful.

[jinc1019]

That's a huge statement right there. We don't have to agree but we should be respectful.

Absolutely.

I have been on MANY different forums of numerous faiths and I have found that this is definitely one of the most helpful and kind. I greatly appreciate everyone's efforts.

[Durzan]

Absolutely.

I have been on MANY different forums of numerous faiths and I have found that this is definitely one of the most helpful and kind. I greatly appreciate everyone's efforts.

Logical evidence is great, and when it is further backed up by the Holy Spirit, the two become a force to be reckoned with.

Make sure you pray constantly and read the scriptures. I testify that the answer will come to you.

[jinc1019]

Logical evidence is great, and when it is further backed up by the Holy Spirit, the two become a force to be reckoned with.

Make sure you pray constantly and read the scriptures. I testify that the answer will come to you.

I will, thank you for the advice!

[dahlia]

I wonder how many converts to the church were influenced, at least initially, by the positive example set by a member?

In my ward, there are probably 2 single people. 2 single parents, and 1 traditional family that converted in the past two years and all of them (including me) were influenced by members who were neighbors (as they mentioned in their baptism speeches).

Regarding Joseph Smith, I think he had ample occasions to repent any falsehoods. But he chose to suffer prison, ostracism, being tarred and feathered, forced relocation, etc. and still stayed true to his story. If it were all a lie, he would or could have given it all up the first time things got rough - especially since he was only a boy when all of this first happened to him.

[Traveler]

I know this may sound like an odd question...but I am curious what each of you find to be the best, or favorite, piece of evidence that you have found that helps to show Joseph Smith is a true prophet.

I have been praying on the issue and attended an LDS service today, but still remain uncertain and would like to know what evidence all of you found to be most convincing.

I know that for many of you, this evidence is likely the Holy Spirit, but I was hoping to hear more general pieces of evidence rather than personal testimonies, although those are welcome too of course. Thank you all for your time!

Justin

For me it is the story of Joseph in Missouri. He was taken from his family by a mob and put into jail. The stories of what happened in Missouri are tragic and difficult to understand how it is that Christians could involve themselves in such things. But Joseph was betrayed in Missouri by a trusted friend and LDS member serving as councilor to Joseph. This friend, William Law, while Joseph was in prison led a mob to the home of Joseph where Emma (Joseph’s wife) was forced from her home with small children as the home was burned, life stock killed and forced to walk away in winter without coat or provisions. Emma fled with other members from Missouri to Illinois.

Later when Joseph had escaped Missouri and established the city of Nauvoo William Law wrote Joseph a letter asking for forgiveness. Not only did Joseph forgive William but rejoiced as the father of the prodigal son. It is Joseph’s ability to forgive his accusers that impresses me the most concerning his character.

The Traveler

[Blackmarch]

I know this may sound like an odd question...but I am curious what each of you find to be the best, or favorite, piece of evidence that you have found that helps to show Joseph Smith is a true prophet.

I have been praying on the issue and attended an LDS service today, but still remain uncertain and would like to know what evidence all of you found to be most convincing.

I know that for many of you, this evidence is likely the Holy Spirit, but I was hoping to hear more general pieces of evidence rather than personal testimonies, although those are welcome too of course. Thank you all for your time!

Justin

My favorite, would be revelation from God.. barring that, over time its hard not to get a little smug watching reasons why "such and such" are totally false get shot down... Leaving room for the Book of mormon to exist (but still no sign that says this is zarahemla, lead by Nephi.. yet) it used to be that the book of abraham translations by JS were something like 100% wrong now they are like 70-80% wrong (according to experts then vs now).

or when archeologists figure out something new the ancient americans or ancient jews did... and that sort of thing just happens to be mentioned in the book of mormon.

some things-

depictions of swords and breast plates in mayan art,

the use of cutting off of arms.

the use of a mail system.

natives being bloodthirsty rather than peaceful.

horses and elephants.

bees that produce honey.

discovery of an alele (DNA related stuff), in a few cases of central american people that had been previously been considered unique to middle eastern cultures.

How war was waged.

Introducing a more efficient money system than the one we use today.

Using an ancient form of poetry that wasn't rediscovered till fairly recently.

One of the more wow moments for me tho was when I came across a study on covergent lingual evolution and the example that was used was Alma from some native american group and Alma from latin... but not only that but the Book of Mormon used Alma in the native american context (it being male rather than female).

anyways just a couple things off the top of my head that i've seen over the years. theres bunches more... you probably could visit the FAIRlds.org site for more of that sort of thing or something.

Edited January 6, 2014 by Blackmarch

[john doe]

The Holy Ghost testified to me that he is/was a Prophet of God.

[skippy740]

I was going through some old mission documents and scanned quite a few of them in. Here's one that fits directly into the theme of this thread:

Challenges of The Book of Mormon:

https://www.cubby.com/pl/TKM+-+Challenges+of+The+Book+of+Mormon.PDF/_16980c1b015340f3bd1d9d727b8f98d4

In essence, it describes all the circumstances and nuances that would have to be duplicated in order to bring a document like The Book of Mormon to the world. I don't remember the source of the information, but I had used a word processor to re-type it myself so it would be easier to read.

[Maureen]

For me it is the story of Joseph in Missouri. He was taken from his family by a mob and put into jail. The stories of what happened in Missouri are tragic and difficult to understand how it is that Christians could involve themselves in such things. But Joseph was betrayed in Missouri by a trusted friend and LDS member serving as councilor to Joseph. This friend, William Law, while Joseph was in prison led a mob to the home of Joseph where Emma (Joseph’s wife) was forced from her home with small children as the home was burned, life stock killed and forced to walk away in winter without coat or provisions. Emma fled with other members from Missouri to Illinois.

Later when Joseph had escaped Missouri and established the city of Nauvoo William Law wrote Joseph a letter asking for forgiveness. Not only did Joseph forgive William but rejoiced as the father of the prodigal son. It is Joseph’s ability to forgive his accusers that impresses me the most concerning his character.

The Traveler

Traveler, can you provide a source for your information here. I've been searching myself and I can't find anything that has William Law involved in the way you say he was.

This is what I've found:

https://rsc.byu.edu/archived/joseph-smith-prophet-and-seer/joseph-smith-northern-missouri-1838

M.

[Just_A_Guy]

I think Traveler may be thinking of William Phelps. I don't specifically remember Phelps being present when Smith's family was expelled from their home; but I know Phelps did swear out some affidavits against Smith during the Missouri troubles and later returned (and was welcomed) back into the fold.

[Maureen]

From what I've read William Phelps' hymns are some of the church's favourites.

M.

[ztodd]

I remember that although I had wanted and searched for it, I didn't really get as much of a testimony as I wanted of the prophet Joseph Smith, until after being at the Missionary Training Center for a few weeks. A big moment came for me when I was part of the large missionary choir singing one of the hymns about the prophet when I started to just feel a light growing brighter inside me, swelling up in me a feeling of love for God and His prophet. My testimony of Joseph as the prophet of the restoration ever since then has grown- it is now one of the most cherished parts of my testimony of the Gospel.

I feel that if you seek for it and have a serious and solemn desire within you to take action, then Heavenly Father will surely bless you with that witness.

[Blackmarch]

I wonder how many converts to the church were influenced, at least initially, by the positive example set by a member?

i'd say over 90%

[Palerider]

I go up to Nauvoo something like 5-6 times a year. I am far from a expert and I often get asked why I go up so much, haven't you seen everything there is to see ? Yes I have seen it all and still love going up there. I guess you could say I am passionate about Nauvoo. I love being there and walking the streets of old Nauvoo during the day and at night. I love sitting by the Smith home and grave site. I love sitting by the Seventys hall and the Red Brick store and other places and think and talk about the history and some of the people who lived there. I could go on but I will refrain. Lol

One of the things that comes to my mind is when Joseph was in Liberty Jail and was not treated kindly in that place for 6 months. The place stunk and was bitterly cold. The food was horrible. Emma came to visit and looked at Joseph and asked him.....how can you do this? He replied to her....because I can....

[Palerider]

I also like to listen to the lecture series on Joseph Smith by Truman Madsen.