Bishop disguised as a homeless man....

[applepansy]

goes to church and sits on the front row. I wonder how I would act. An AA camp is within my wards boundaries. Often we have men come to church who dress as best they can but don't have the resources to dress as we would expect. Our ward goes out of their way to make them feel welcome. The ward missionaries usually give them rides to church.

But what if it was someone nobody knew?

What do you think about this?

Mormon bishop disguises himself as homeless man to teach congregation about compassion | Deseret News

[bytebear]

I served my mission in Boston and we had a singles ward in the city which would have a large potluck after services. We got a lot of homeless people who came to church for the meal. The bishop had a rule that anyone was welcome to the food if they attended church. Let's just say there were some pretty interesting discussions in Priesthood class. It never got out of hand but we almost always had 3 or 4 homeless people at church.

[Bini]

I'll probably be the Scrooge here but I agree with Robert Goble who left this comment:

I'm bothered about the idea that compassion equals giving panhandlers money when we have so many successful social programs to help those who want and need to be helped. Extorting people with guilt is criminal. I don't think giving money to panhandlers is Christian.

I also have a hard time believing (Musselman being a bishop or not) that he didn't anticipate this performance having shock value. Of course it would. All that aside, I agree with the bottom line that we all could be kinder and show more charity but this particular story rubs me the wrong way. It goes back to the idea of teaching a man to fish instead of just giving him the fish. Lastly, this sort of trick often attempts to shame people for doing or not doing something (like the programme called 'What Would You Do?') and yet, we don't know why people choose to act or not act in a particular situation. Too many variables.. Is this person safe to approach? Could this situation escalate and endanger me or my children? We just don't know.

[NeuroTypical]

This is an excellent story. I agree with the notion that giving money to panhandlers is usually a horrible idea that is the exact opposite of help. But this deal was about more.

Many actually went out of their way to purposefully ignore me, and they wouldn’t even make eye contact. I’d approach them and say, ‘Happy Thanksgiving,’ many of them I wouldn’t ask for any food or any kind of money, and their inability to even acknowledge me being there was very surprising,” Bishop Musselman said. “It made me think of the category of people that … the Savior has the most difficult time with. That’s the people that are lukewarm. That really don’t take a stand either way.

One of the gentlemen that approached me and asked me to leave the property felt horrible (afterward), and it would be easy to judge him,” Bishop Musselman said. “But what I didn’t know about this was that just one year before that time his granddaughter had come to his church … and helped an old man get into his car, and at the time that she did that, he was faking, and he stole her purse and drove off. So he came out because he was concerned about the safety of people, and his experience caused him to view me through a different lens.

[Lakumi]

I always give to the homeless, as I told my mother "it is not my place to judge them"

I don't have disgust for those people, they're human, and their lives are worse then anything I can imagine. It's none of my business what they spend the money I give them.

[Guest]

Why would we have to go out of our way to make people feel welcome? Are we naturally unwelcoming? That's the issue right there. We should be naturally welcoming so we won't have to go out of our way to make people feel welcome!

[Leah]

The bishop said the lesson he learned was to not judge people, yet that is exactly what everyone does when they make a decision to give money to a panhandler or not. They are being judged on whether or not they meet the (potential) giver's arbitrary standards. They then either are deemed "deserving" or not.

Sure, you can make the argument that it is "better" to do x or y rather than to simply give a handout, but still, you are making a judgment on your perception of worthiness.

Maybe someone will buy alcohol or cigarettes with the money I give them, but is it right for me to make that assumption and then deem them unworthy? What if they do buy the booze, but there is something about that act of charity that impacts them in such a way that it sets them on a path that changes and improves their life? It does happen.

[NeuroTypical]

Of course it's our duty and responsibility to righteously judge how to best go about helping. With the knowledge at our disposal about the causes and solutions to poverty and homelessness in 1st world countries, it's nonsense to believe that by just tossing money in someone's direction, we are helping them.

You don't judge people, you judge situations.

I see myself kneeling at the judgement bar of God. On one side of me, I'm kneeling next to a pile of empty wine bottles, pornography, broken marriages, drug needles, and room keys for cheap hotel rooms that rent by the hour. On the other side, is a pile of clothing, food, dignity, employment, rehab, saved marriages, and lives touched by genuine charity. It's made known to me that these are the fruits of my supposed acts of charity, and I'm asked to explain the first pile. I'll stammer something about their agency, and I didn't know, and I figured I shouldn't judge even though I knew the odds. I wonder how it will be received.

Edited November 27, 2013 by Loudmouth_Mormon

[prisonchaplain]

Why would we have to go out of our way to make people feel welcome?

Because they don't expect to be welcomed, and will easily interpret any hesitance or "double-takes" we might subcontiously project as confirmation that they are not welcome.

[pam]

I think the Bishop did it more as a lesson for himself. He stated right at the beginning of the article that he was surprised at even his own inability to have compassion. I think there is no better way to learn than to put yourself in basically the same shoes as the person you have a hard time feeling compassion for.

Within reason of course. I wouldn't put myself into the shoes of a prostitute or drug dealer etc.

[Guest]

Because they don't expect to be welcomed, and will easily interpret any hesitance or "double-takes" we might subcontiously project as confirmation that they are not welcome.

It is normal to do a double-take when seeing something odd. But then if we're naturally welcoming, we do the welcome after the double-take. If they still feel that's unwelcoming, there's nothing we can do about that.

What I see here is that people are not naturally welcoming and THEN they do a double-take... so there's no welcoming experience period.

[slamjet]

I really despise stories like this. So a homeless man comes into the chapel, so what? I remember one time (out of many) when that happening when I was a kid. The Bishop asked my dad to take him home and feed him. It ended up that he was a con-artist.

Lets see, some other way to go about this, I know, do like the wards in my building are doing and making lunches and taking them to pass out so that the youth can interact with the homeless and discover their humanity while doing some good. Or how about what my stake currently does, adopt a case worker so when she has a family that's in need, she sends us a request and we do our best to fill it so that the family can be in compliance. We've donated a lot of clothing, beds, cribs, etc. Or I know, another thing my stake does is be in contact with other denominational churches in our area and help by sending food and workers to their kitchens so that they can feed the homeless and less fortunate.

There are so many other ways to teach this lesson and get the congregation involved without resorting to performing silly stunts. Besides, some people can go up and talk to a homeless or eccentric person, some cannot. We all have our talents and limits. To rub peoples nose in it is counter-productive and only done to make others feel guilty and unworthy. I suggest that this Bishop get off his duff and get himself and his ward involved in something instead of resorting to silly stunts.

[prisonchaplain]

It is normal to do a double-take when seeing something odd. But then if we're naturally welcoming, we do the welcome after the double-take. If they still feel that's unwelcoming, there's nothing we can do about that.

What I see here is that people are not naturally welcoming and THEN they do a double-take... so there's no welcoming experience period.

I'm not so sure feeling awkward, flat-footed, etc., and compensating by being extra friendly--extra welcoming--has to be interpreted as trying to force something that just isn't. When you know something is hard, or clumsy for you, don't you try harder to make it work?

[Guest]

I'm not so sure feeling awkward, flat-footed, etc., and compensating by being extra friendly--extra welcoming--has to be interpreted as trying to force something that just isn't. When you know something is hard, or clumsy for you, don't you try harder to make it work?

Sure. But I don't think one should be more clumsy welcoming a guy in rags as opposed to a guy in a suit. I can see if the guy stinks to high heaven... but then, one can't hold that against me.

[Dravin]

When you know something is hard, or clumsy for you, don't you try harder to make it work?

Her idea is that if you are friendly in the first place you don't catch yourself being unfriendly and then having to try harder to be friendly to compensate. You're focusing on correcting for a failure, she's focusing on not failing in the first place.

[prisonchaplain]

Dravin, I get it. It's just that no matter how friendly we may be with those we know, or those we regularly associate with, we may find ourselves nervouse, embarrassed, just off-balance, when faced with the unfamiliar. I find it perfectly acceptable to err on the side of over-compensating a bit, until I can find my bearings, and become my natural, friendly, loving, non-judgmental self. :-)

[classylady]

Dravin, I get it. It's just that no matter how friendly we may be with those we know, or those we regularly associate with, we may find ourselves nervouse, embarrassed, just off-balance, when faced with the unfamiliar. I find it perfectly acceptable to err on the side of over-compensating a bit, until I can find my bearings, and become my natural, friendly, loving, non-judgmental self. :-)

I typically have a harder time being around the elderly. It's not that I don't want to be friendly with them, but I can't seem to make myself heard. I don't know how to get my voice any louder without shouting. I'm not a loud person. I do the best I can, but I find myself extremely stressed, so sometimes I find myself avoiding them. When I notice I'm avoiding them, then I correct myself.

[Irishcolleen]

We live near Chicago. If we gave money to every pan-handler we saw we'd be broke. Sometimes, if we are near a fast-food place we will buy them a meal. But, where we are we have to be careful. Many of the homeless are addicts or severely mentally ill and violence directed towards people trying to help is not unheard of.

Chicago is a fairly safe city, but there are gangs, drugs, shootings, etc... are in many areas including my neighborhood. We are looking forward to our move to Utah this summer! Not that Utah is problem free, but I don't think I'll have drug dealing neighbors right out my back door anymore.

Edited November 27, 2013 by Irishcolleen

[Roseslipper]

I served my mission in Boston and we had a singles ward in the city which would have a large potluck after services. We got a lot of homeless people who came to church for the meal. The bishop had a rule that anyone was welcome to the food if they attended church. Let's just say there were some pretty interesting discussions in Priesthood class. It never got out of hand but we almost always had 3 or 4 homeless people at church.

i think it's cool!!!

[NeuroTypical]

Many of the homeless are addicts or severely mentally ill and violence directed towards people trying to help is not unheard of.

Important truth. In any grouping of people, be they mormons or cops or coworkers or female college students or retired gay republicans or anything else - there will be a tiny percentage of that population who, for lack of a better term, are predators and will commit evil acts of harm on innocent people. Pretty much always, it's such a tiny percentage of the population it's not worth thinking about, other than to be aware of some red flags.

But in groups of homeless and or panhandlers, the percentage of dangerous ones is higher. The bell curve is flatter, and skewed towards dangerous.

That doesn't mean you ignore them and kick them out of your churches.

[Irishcolleen]

Important truth. In any grouping of people, be they mormons or cops or coworkers or female college students or retired gay republicans or anything else - there will be a tiny percentage of that population who, for lack of a better term, are predators and will commit evil acts of harm on innocent people. Pretty much always, it's such a tiny percentage of the population it's not worth thinking about, other than to be aware of some red flags.

But in groups of homeless and or panhandlers, the percentage of dangerous ones is higher. The bell curve is flatter, and skewed towards dangerous.

That doesn't mean you ignore them and kick them out of your churches.

oops, I didn't know it posted... next post has my thoughts. :)

Edited November 28, 2013 by Irishcolleen

[Irishcolleen]

Important truth. In any grouping of people, be they mormons or cops or coworkers or female college students or retired gay republicans or anything else - there will be a tiny percentage of that population who, for lack of a better term, are predators and will commit evil acts of harm on innocent people. Pretty much always, it's such a tiny percentage of the population it's not worth thinking about, other than to be aware of some red flags.

But in groups of homeless and or panhandlers, the percentage of dangerous ones is higher. The bell curve is flatter, and skewed towards dangerous.

That doesn't mean you ignore them and kick them out of your churches.

You definitely don't kick them out of churches. But, when you have lived in a marginal neighborhood as long as we have (hubby is bi-vocational pastor) you get to know who is just having a hard time vs. who is an addict or unstable. If someone is an addict or unstable a woman or children should not reach out to them without having an adult man with them. Unfortunatley, it's just a reality of life in a city.

Edited November 28, 2013 by Irishcolleen

[NeuroTypical]

Colleen, I think you and I see pretty much eye to eye on the situation.

My wife, who is both more Christlike and more streetwise than I, summed it up like this: Either the man's intentions were good, or they weren't. Either situation is successfully resolved by warmly greeting him, getting to know him, and keeping an eye on him.

Edited November 28, 2013 by Loudmouth_Mormon

[Quin]

I am exceptionally wary of people who LOOK homeless.

Why?

Because I've BEEN homeless.

For a little less than 2 years, a loooooong time ago (not quite back when God was a boy, but close ; )

Being homeless, one gets a feel for certain things.

Like the types of homelessness.

Very first off... Most homeless people DON'T look homeless.

When someone LOOKS homeless, they fall into one of a couple types

- stupid (or brand spanking new/ aka ignorant although not actually stupid, they're not street smart, yet)

- dangerous (drunk, high, mentally ill, scamming)

Lets deal with stupid first since it's the longest...and why smart homeless kids/adults don't look homeless:

STUPID

- YMCA is free for po'folk, and if there's no YMCA there are super-low-cost-gyms. Which means its possible to shower each and every single day, for free. Which most do.

- Laundry costs $2. In a populated area it's possible to spange (spare change) $2 in minutes. With a ziplock back in your pack to keep clothes dry in wet climate, there is absolutely no reason to be wearing filthy clothes for more than an hour or so (spangle and head to laundrymat)

- Free Clincs for Youth(under23) are amaaaaazing. Almost all of hem are staffed with high end children's hospital docs & dentists doing volunteer hours. Free clinics for the over 23 club vary, but one very quickly finds the good ones by word of mouth.

- Sleeping rough. Most shelters are used almost exclusively by the dangerous &/or deranged folk. They aren't clean, they aren't safe, and they don't have enough beds. There are dozens of other options for sleeping available (indoors) that I won't get into here, as well as camping (literal) options.

- Sleeping rough part II. Most smart homeless people migrate. Meaning they head south for the winter. Some don't (friends and family up north), but most who have friends and family are "couch surfing", so only are borderline homeless. They dont have one of their own, but they have a place to stay.

- Food The hardest parts about food are

- not being able to cook it (why do people donate food that needs to be cooked??? Argh. Not everyone (most don't) camp with stoves, or have pots/pans, etc. And most cities have burn bans. Meaning starting a camp fire to cook the random low cal junk someone gave you is a fast way to get arrested.

- People donate "healthy" junk. When homeless, that's the worst thing to eat, period. You're physically active most of the day, and eat intermittently. Which means we need CALORIES AND FAT, not fiber and low cal waste. The best thing to donate to a homeless person is fast food. It's already cooked, super high in calories, and it keeps fairly well without a fridge (at least 24 hours), it portable, and easy to share. If you want to donate "healthy" things to homeless people, give a bottle of multivitamins. They're freaking expensive. Also, please, avoid high fiber foods. They're lower calorie, and make people have to eliminate more frequently (before our bodies can squeeze every last nutrient from what we've eaten). What's "healthy" for people eating several meals a day, from a rich and varied source, with such an excess of nutrients that they have to go to the gym to burn off the extra calories is NOT healthy for a person fighting off malnutrition.

That said... Food is moderately easy to come by. The dollar menu is a gift from God for homeless people ($2 in less than an hour, means you can generally eat something at least once a day!). There are also soup kitchens, church programs, et cetera.

Clothes There are dozens of clothing sources out there if you've somehow ended up homeless nekkid, or have been homeless for awhile, or have had all your stuff stolen. Most homeless youth/adults avail themselves of these sources. Jst like there is no reason on earth to be wearing filthy clothes, there's no reason to be wearing rags, either.

What'd ya do today? Most homeless people are doing something productive, or sleeping (it's safer to sleep on the daytime than at night). If "what you're doing" is sitting on street corner, or in an alley, at BEST they're stupid. More likely, they're dangerous &/or deranged. You dont find smart homeless folk "SOCMOB" (standing on corner, minding own business), unless they're spanging. Instead they go to the library, look for work, go to the mall, the beach, a museum, any one of hundreds of free places to go in a city. (In the country, fishing or hunting gigs a popular past time, as it kills time and feeds you). Ahem. Or WORKING. A ton of homeless people actually DO work paying jobs. It takes about 6 months to save up enough for first/last for a single person working a minimum wage job. For those with child support to pay (a lot of parents are homeless, but keep their kids with relatives, so their kids aren't homeless) it takes about 18mo. A ton of KIDS (18-23) are homeless & working while waiting for the "magic 24" which is when they can apply for financial aid for school. These are often kids who have been on the street since 14/15.

There are other tips/tricks/ins/outs... But those are the major ones. There is absolutely NO REASON for someone to "look" homeless. Not for more than a couple hours after a tumble into a mud hole.

Except for the 3 reasons people DO look homeless

Dangerous

1- Mentally ill (president Bush slashed at mental health funding... Which increased homelessness a crazy degree. I've read numbers at 400-800% at various times.) Psychiatric meds are EXPENSIVE... And drug companies will comp a person for a year, but only for a year. Free clinics don't help this group, as most were middle income middle class. They lost their health insurance, or medication subsidies, and tried to save their house/job/etc. But off their meds could keep neither, and end up on the street. No matter how wonderful a person is on their meds, or even off meds most of the time, mentally ill people are dangerous. Not always violently, sometimes "just" by doing stupid things, or even trying to do nice things (lots of women carry around dead animals they've hugged to death, since they don't know their own strength, and miss their kids. Nice folk (usually other homeless, sometimes do gooders) generally try and substitute a stuffed animal for them while they sleep or "in trade".

2- Altered. My FAVORITE kind of dangerous homeless person while I was homeless were the drunks. As they spend most of their time sleeping, and generally can't run very far or very fast, and you can smell them before you see them 9:10, so they rarely get the drop on you... So if they blow up in a rage, you can get away most of the time. Angry stoners or tweakers are generally in better physical condition, and have crazy bursts of speed/strength in addition to paranoid outbursts. (Anyone who thinks pot/weed is a good thing for a homeless person because of the "mellow" has never had to deal with how paranoid it makes people. Or how hungry, in a population where food is a pain to come by). Most people who are altered (drugs or alcohol) aren't the "lived the good life addiction took from me". Most have some SERIOUS demons, despair, heartbreak in their past (dead children is very common with older people, and sometimes they killed them OR feel they did, like drowning in the tub ... Along with years of having suffered physical or sexual abuse/trauma being another common one amongst altered youth.) There's also a lot of overlap in mental illness and substance abuse, as folk attempt to manage the worst of their mental illness with street drugs or alcohol. Generally they succeed to a degree (they aren't killing other people,or themselves), even though it leaves them completely unable to live any kind of a normal,life.

No matter how much compassion I may have for both of the above dangerous groups (mentally ill & altered)... They're STILL DANGEROUS.

3- Flat out dangerous-dangerous without chemical assistance. You'll find scammers in both groups above... But flat out dangerous is where you find most of them. These are people who use other people for their own ends, just because they can (or are angry at the world). Rapists, perverts, sadists, robbers, failed drug dealers & pimps, wanna be gang bangers (real,gang bangers don't look homeless), etc. They look homeless because they're either

- trying to look tough (and succeeding in a very low rent way)

- scamming for sympathy

______________

Again, when I was homeless the above categories of stupid/dangerous were the MINORITY. Less than about 1/3 of people I knew fell into those categories.

But ALL of the people who LOOKED homeless did.

Which means that when someone looks homeless walks into somewhere I have my kids?

My adrenalin kicks into gear.

Period.

I DO NOT reach out to them.

I stay neutral, nonthreatening, and back.

Unless there an altercation.

At which point I send my kids safely away, and put on my "I speak druggie/ challenged/ stupid/ or crazy" hat.

Q

[NeuroTypical]

What Quin's post lacks in charity and brotherly love, it makes up for in being pretty much the unvarnished truth. There are probably better ways to relay the information, but her information and experience basically match the stuff I've learned about the situation.

KSL had an interesting story last week:

Business of Begging: The real stories behind Utah panhandling