Being a Mormon Vegetarian

[batman16]

Hey everyone, I don't know if this is the right forum to post this in but, I'm just wondering if anyone is a mormon and a vegetarian? Or even if you're not what your views on it are? Lately my feelings have been growing to become a vegetarian. Currently the people I live with are big meat eaters and when they found out I want to stop eating meat It was like I came out of the closet or something. They were kind of shocked and even referenced that the scriptures say we are suppose to eat meat. Does anyone know where in the scriptures it would say that? Or would it just be the way they interpreted it?

[HiJolly]

D&C 49:

18 And whoso forbiddeth to abstain from meats, that man should not eat the same, is not ordained of God;

19 For, behold, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the air, and that which cometh of the earth, is ordained for the use of man for food and for raiment, and that he might have in abundance.

and

1 Timothy chapter 4

[HiJolly]

My opinion is that it doesn't matter. It's totally your choice.

[Wingnut]

[Wingnut]

Also, this:

(Sorry...I don't mean to mock. Those are just the first two things that come to mind when people say they don't eat meat. I just wanted to share them, though they are no reflection of my personal views on vegetarianism.)

[batman16]

Thanks for the reference HiJolly. And I thought those videos were funny wingnut haha! I've always been a big meat eater but in the last few months it has slowly crept into my mind to stop eating meat. I haven't gone cold turkey yet, just cutting out where I can. but having researched about the health benefits and the fact that meat isn't appetizing to me anymore makes it harder to continue. I prayed about it even and it still feels like something I should do, but the scriptures make it pretty clear I guess?

I just feel guilty now when I eat meat which is strange because there is no one around me or who has taught me anything that would make me feel that way.

[NeuroTypical]

There are many LDS vegetarians who go about their business and run their diets in peace and quiet.

There are also a tiny number of LDS vegetarians who are easily offended zealots on an unrighteously judgmental crusade to sway the world to their opinion.

Feel free to be the first as much as you like - you'll be in good company.

[Guest]

Thanks for the reference HiJolly. And I thought those videos were funny wingnut haha! I've always been a big meat eater but in the last few months it has slowly crept into my mind to stop eating meat. I haven't gone cold turkey yet, just cutting out where I can. but having researched about the health benefits and the fact that meat isn't appetizing to me anymore makes it harder to continue. I prayed about it even and it still feels like something I should do, but the scriptures make it pretty clear I guess?

I just feel guilty now when I eat meat which is strange because there is no one around me or who has taught me anything that would make me feel that way.

I'm not sure how you understood the scriptures. The scriptures that HiJolly referenced does not say that you have to eat meat. What it says is that we should not stop people from eating meat. So, if you want to go vegetarian, then that's completely cool and still aligns with the scriptures. It becomes uncool when you try to guilt other people into going vegetarian with you because you think God says eating meat is sinful - that doesn't align with scripture at all.

Make sense?

[skippy740]

I haven't gone cold turkey yet

I wouldn't either. I'm glad God have us microwaves so we don't have to have cold turkey. :)

[batman16]

haha don't worry about it loudmouth, I don't plan on being the latter. I was scared to even tell people because I was worried people would think I would try and convert or judge them to my own way of thinking. No I just see it as a personal revelation on the way I need to live, not effecting anyone else.

Thanks for the clarification anatess, I guess I didn't really understand how the word forbiddeth was being used. I read it more like who so forbiddeth, and abstain from meat.

Well I feel better about my decision now, thanks for the replies so far.

[Traveler]

I have always believed that a good healthy diet is the way to live life fully. I also believe that it is important to understand that humans have evolved to eat a very large variety of foods, including meat, that all add to healthy balanced metabolisms. Part of our ability to metabolize food I believe comes from our attitude concerning the things we eat. For example - I believe that honestly being thankful for the food we receive adds to our health both physically and spiritually. Thus it is my personal opinion that the ritual of thankful prayer before each meal and even snacks contributes to our health.

It may seem strange but I believe we should take care of our bodies and maintain the ability to metabolize a large variety of good foods - yes - even foods that despite their health benefits are not entirely gratifying to the pleasure of our individual tastes. In other words I believe we can and should learn to appreciate good (healthy) foods that may not be pleasurable to our pallets.

All this being said I believe that the Saints of G-d should eat a good variety that includes meat but not in the proportions common in our western society. Fish is the meat most often in my diet and I try to have meat at least twice a week but never daily - 4 times a week max. I also try to have raw fruit and vegetables at every meal and snack. I personally believe one would be better off eliminating processed sugar and partial grain (not whole grain) flower from their diet than to not eat meat if they are truly trying to be healthy.

I also find meat useful in my training diet for extra strenuous activity - like a 100 mile bicycle ride - but not in my diet 24 hours before such activity yet helpful immediately after such activity.

In short I believe a Saint of G-d receives with thanksgiving all good things for food provided by G-d for our use and health (physically and spiritually) and in modest proportions - never glutinous - even during special occasions of celebration.

The Traveler

Edited January 4, 2014 by Traveler

[Latter Days Guy]

Well the word of wisdom says we should eat meat sparingly and that its pleasing to the Lord to abstain from meat totally.

12 Yea, flesh also of beasts and of the fowls of the air, I, the Lord, have ordained for the use of man with thanksgiving; nevertheless they are to be used sparingly;

13 And it is pleasing unto me that they should not be used, only in times of winter, or of cold, or famine.

[Dravin]

I disagree with a rendering of those verses as, "It is pleasing to the Lord to abstain from meat totally." Verse 13 states it's pleasing to the Lord that they not be used except during times of winter, cold, or famine. If you think on a practical level that means total abstinence I think that's perfectly fine way to go about it applying it in your every day life, but that's different than what the verse is stating as it's giving an exception to "It is pleasing unto me that they should not be used". Stating that it says it is pleasing to the Lord to abstain from meat totally is basically discarding the second half of the sentence.

Edited January 4, 2014 by Dravin

[classylady]

Batman16, if becoming a vegetarian is what you want to do, then please study up on it. Make sure you are getting all your nutritional needs met. I have quite a few friends and family members who are vegetarians. And most of them have been smart about it. They have studied, and they know where to get their sources of protein and all other nutrients so they have a balanced diet. But, I have one cousin in particular who looks absolutely sickly. All he has done is cut out meat, and he doesn't get all the nutrients he needs from other sources. He's a vegetarian, but eats poorly.

[Traveler]

I disagree with a rendering of those verses as, "It is pleasing to the Lord to abstain from meat totally." Verse 13 states it's pleasing to the Lord that they not be used except during times of winter, cold, or famine. If you think on a practical level that means total abstinence I think that's perfectly fine way to go about it applying it in your every day life, but that's different than what the verse is stating as it's giving an exception to "It is pleasing unto me that they should not be used". Stating that it says it is pleasing to the Lord to abstain from meat totally is basically discarding the second half of the sentence.

I agree that there are practical ways to understand scripture - for example most modern families have a refrigrator that has winter time or time of cold year round which means that there is no reason to eliminate meat at anytime of year because of scripture.

The Traveler

[NeuroTypical]

Well the word of wisdom says we should eat meat sparingly and that its pleasing to the Lord to abstain from meat totally.

Heh. Fascinating and confusing history of this verse There's been a change - a comma added - which completely changes the meaning.

13 And it is pleasing unto me that they should not be used, only in times of winter, or of cold, or famine.

Do you see that comma after the word "used"? GB-UK seems to be properly pulling the correct meaning out of the verse.

But take a look at a scanned image from the original:

Do you see that lack of comma after the word "used"? It's moved to after "me". The verse used to mean something totally different. God used to be pleased when we didn't use them only in times of winter. Move a comma, and now God is pleased when we don't use them, but only use them in times of winter.

I don't know what happened or why.

[Suzie]

Heh. Fascinating and confusing history of this verse There's been a change - a comma added - which completely changes the meaning. Do you see that comma after the word "used"? GB-UK seems to be properly pulling the correct meaning out of the verse.

But take a look at a scanned image from the original:

Do you see that lack of comma after the word "used"? It's moved to after "me". The verse used to mean something totally different. God used to be pleased when we didn't use them only in times of winter. Move a comma, and now God is pleased when we don't use them, but only use them in times of winter.

I don't know what happened or why.

LM, you know I read many times the original and this explanation but to me logically speaking, it makes little sense. I don't know, it makes sense that the Lord will instruct it to be used in times of winter, famine, etc because it keeps you all warm but it makes little sense to me why he will say it is pleased unto him that they should not be used only during these times, I find it completely weird.

[NeuroTypical]

Well, back in the day the revelation was given, there were all sort of diet fads and opinions about meat and what to eat and when. One fad/opinion that was held by some saints, was that meat was only for use in the winter. From that standpoint, it would make sense that God would say something to the tune of "You know how some of you are saying meat should only be used in the winter? Yeah - no. I don't want you doing it that way. Just use it sparingly and we're good."

Then for no apparent reason, with no explanation that I've been able to find, the comma moved. I'm thinking it may have been a plain old mistake of men, but I honestly don't know. Surely, I have NOT heard any church leader in any talk on General Conference say anything ever about only eating meat in winter. Has anyone else?

[SpiritDragon]

I always find this topic interesting in just how clear it is to me, and yet how controversial it becomes.

I'll start with what I believe and why. I'm adding a preface to my thoughts that this is simply what I've come to believe and I do not judge or force this opinion on others.

D&C 49:

18 And whoso forbiddeth to abstain from meats, that man should not eat the same, is not ordained of God;

19 For, behold, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the air, and that which cometh of the earth, is ordained for the use of man for food and for raiment, and that he might have in abundance.

First of all it is not our place to tell others not to eat meat, but this does not mean we should or shouldn't. It only states that the Lord is okay with it if we do.

D&C 89

12 Yea, flesh also of beasts and of the fowls of the air, I, the Lord, have ordained for the use of man with thanksgiving; nevertheless they are to be used sparingly;

13 And it is pleasing unto me that they should not be used, only in times of winter, or of cold, or famine.

I read this to clearly state that it is okay to eat meat when other food sources are not abundant, otherwise the lord is most pleased if we feed on plants rather than animals.

Doctrine and Covenants 58:26

26 For behold, it is not meet that I should command in all things; for he that is compelled in all things, the same is a slothful and not a wise servant; wherefore he receiveth no reward.

I believe (but again do not impose on others) that we are supposed to come to the conclusion that meat is acceptable to eat when other food sources are scarce, but the rest of the time it should certainly not be front and center in our diets. Thus a mostly vegetarian lifestyle would be great.

I believe that the Lord has provided the nutrients we need in abundance on the earth and that we should be able to get them from our food. I bring this up because strict vegans who avoid all animal products will not be able to get sufficient (any) vitamin b12 without supplementing. Simply eating a small amount of meat on occasion will easily cover the b12 demands in otherwise healthy individuals. Not that I want to get into a nutrition debate on your topic... just that I think it is an interesting point to note that there are certain animal derived nutrients (zoochemicals) that our bodies do better when levels are kept within appropriate limits than when they are too low. On the flip side we have a much greater need for plant derived nutrients (phytochemicals) so we should have an abundance of seasonal fruits and vegetables in our diet with adequate whole grains (staff of life) to maintain our strength and health.

As for changes to the punctuation in section 89... I don't know? It is an interesting musing... pray about it I guess.

Finally I want to add,

3 Nephi 11:30

30 Behold, this is not my doctrine, to stir up the hearts of men with anger, one against another; but this is my doctrine, that such things should be done away.

It is fine to ask and have conversation about such things, but it isn't something worth arguing about. I think this is actually why the general authorities stay silent on the issue, because it would stir up too much contention over a point of doctrine better left for us to discover and follow individually.

...and that is my two cents :)

[SpiritDragon]

Oh and I thought I would add that it wouldn't help missionary efforts for people to give up tea, coffee, alcohol AND MEAT. Thus it is again something considered more of an individual privilege with blessings, but less of a commandment per se.

[ztodd]

Heh. Fascinating and confusing history of this verse There's been a change - a comma added - which completely changes the meaning. Do you see that comma after the word "used"? GB-UK seems to be properly pulling the correct meaning out of the verse.

But take a look at a scanned image from the original:

Do you see that lack of comma after the word "used"? It's moved to after "me". The verse used to mean something totally different. God used to be pleased when we didn't use them only in times of winter. Move a comma, and now God is pleased when we don't use them, but only use them in times of winter.

I don't know what happened or why.

Interesting- which version is this "original" from? I'd like to try to verify it myself.

[notquiteperfect]

Meat (as well as sugar and dairy) is acidifying to the body and in order to be healthy, we need to have a slightly alkalized ph. So I'm of the opinion that meat is for cold or famine (it can take 3 days to digest) and that eating a plant-based diet is best but the Lord knows there are times of exception.

There's a great book about the WofW I got from Deseret Book a while back. It was written by an apostle - John A Widstoe. It's not sold in stores but you can get it online - Deseret Book Word of Wisdom: A Modern Interpretation Paperback by John A. Widtsoe

Also, I've heard rumors that some of the GA's are vegetarian fwiw. Best of health to you (and don't listen to the naysayers (i.e. family) - people tend to feel threatened when someone does something different from them).

[Bacdoc]

Hi all,

I'd just like to throw a few words in here.

To the OP. Loss for the taste of meat is often a lack of Hydrochloric acid in the gut. The body instinctively turns off the craving for meat because it is having a difficult time digesting it. If this has become and issue just recently, then it may be prudent to look at the HCL issue and maybe think about enzyme support.

I'd like to add that if it is an HCL issue, then going vegetarian may not be the best choice. If you look at it you will see that any herbivore that is our size generally have 2-3 stomachs, some more. The reason is the phytonutrients in plant life are not very bio available and so it takes some real digestive juices to break them down and utilize the nutrients. Hence the additional stomachs. I don't want to get into a debate about the health benefits of vegetarianism or veganism. I only want to point out that If you have less HCL than you should (which is a b complex deficiency by the way) that it will be difficult for you to break down a vegetarian diet.

pH is and it's effects on the body is a very confusing subject. I'd like to just say a thing or two about that as well. The pH of the gut needs to be at 1.5 for proper digestion. If it approaches 2, you start to have real digestive issues. If it gets much higher than that, you die. So, let me ask you this question. If you eat nothing but alkaline foods, how does it survive the acidity of the gut, it's first destination, and maintain any alkaline characteristics?

I believe that the alkaline diet is a good diet, except for it's marking meats as acidic and therefore bad. They most certainly are acidic, but I don't believe that they should be avoided because of their acidic nature. Those that eat alkaline foods definitely improve and they should be congratulated for that. To eat alkaline means that you are giving up processed and sugary foods, and eating foods in a much more natural state. For a lot of people that is incredibly difficult to do. The foods that are labeled alkaline are also anti-inflammatory. Inflammation is the name of the game, and will be the buzzword in health care for the next 20 years. A lot of our degenerative disease processes are the result of inflammation gone rampant. So to cut this off before this post gets any longer, my belief is that the wonderful results that people get from alkalizing is about decreasing the inflammation present in their bodies, and has little to do with the pH of their food.

In the end the best advice anyone can give you about food is this. Eat more things that you find on the outside edges of grocery stores. Eat less things in the middle of the grocery stores.

My .02

Good luck.

[NightSG]

In the end the best advice anyone can give you about food is this. Eat more things that you find on the outside edges of grocery stores. Eat less things in the middle of the grocery stores.

Hmm....let's see, at the local HEB, that would mean more salad, potatoes, bananas, cakes, pies, donuts, meat, meat, meat, bacon, meat, ice cream, and beer. Less bread and beans.

Yup, sounds legit.

Edited January 9, 2014 by NightSG
Forgot the bananas next to the in-store bakery.

[Backroads]

I'd say that any opposition you get for being vegatarian comes more from your local culture, even if it the local LDS culture, than any doctrinal position. I know many, many vegetarian and vegan Mormons in my area. But you don't even say vegetarian around my husband's family and hometown (they are ranchers and hunters).