Letter from the Church to Ordain Women group

[The Folk Prophet]

Did anyone else notice that Pres. Uchtdorf announced that a member of the Young Women's Presidency would be speaking at the priesthood session? My wife and I both did a double-take (we were watching together from home...and yes, I know I should have gone in person, but I didn't....) and looked at each other (we weren't listening that close, and so only heard Young Women, not the name), and I thought, "Well now, that's interesting." When it turned out to be the Young Men's Presidency, I went back on my DVR to see if we'd really heard what we thought we heard. Sure enough, he accidentally says Young Women's.

[Wingnut]

They are there with their cameras, tweeting and posting about how unfairly they are being treated. Nice of them to show such respect. 

What I read on Twitter was mostly just reporting in...factual observations: this is what's happening, etc.  Not much "unfairness," which was surprising because one of the LDS Feminist Twitter accounts I follow is often really whiny/prideful.  After the session was over, I saw quite a bit more "unfairness" complex.

 

I\'ve always wondered: if they stay at the Tabernacle until the session starts and then walk a few blocks to City Creek Park for their press conference--er, devotional, which they spend listening to the broadcast --don\'t they pretty much miss at least the first half hour of speakers?

The group started at City Creek Park, sang a hymn and said a prayer, then walked to the Tabernacle.  The one tweeter I mentioned above went over to spend some time at the Christus before heading back to Plaza Hotel, after waiting in the line.

[pam]

Did anyone else notice that Pres. Uchtdorf announced that a member of the Young Women's Presidency would be speaking at the priesthood session? My wife and I both did a double-take (we were watching together from home...and yes, I know I should have gone in person, but I didn't....) and looked at each other (we weren't listening that close, and so only heard Young Women, not the name), and I thought, "Well now, that's interesting." When it turned out to be the Young Men's Presidency, I went back on my DVR to see if we'd really heard what we thought we heard. Sure enough, he accidentally says Young Women's.

 

Yep I heard it and was wondering "What in the heck?"

[Guest]

Pres. Uchtdorf punked us. 

[Maureen]

A Salt Lake Tribune article mentioned this regarding General Conference:

 

"For the first time, the general women leaders of the church's auxiliary organizations - Relief Society, Young Women and Primary - were seated among members of the Quorum of the Seventy. Usually, the women sit off to the right."

 

Does anyone think that the OW had any influence in this change in seating?

 

M.

[pam]

A Salt Lake Tribune article mentioned this regarding General Conference:

 

"For the first time, the general women leaders of the church's auxiliary organizations - Relief Society, Young Women and Primary - were seated among members of the Quorum of the Seventy. Usually, the women sit off to the right."

 

Does anyone think that the OW had any influence in this change in seating?

 

M.

 

Not at all and I'm sure the Salt Lake Tribulation would like you to think so.

[Wingnut]

A Salt Lake Tribune article mentioned this regarding General Conference:

 

"For the first time, the general women leaders of the church's auxiliary organizations - Relief Society, Young Women and Primary - were seated among members of the Quorum of the Seventy. Usually, the women sit off to the right."

 

Does anyone think that the OW had any influence in this change in seating?

 

M.

I didn't notice that myself, but I did see someone else comment on it.

 

Not at all and I'm sure the Salt Lake Tribulation would like you to think so.

I'm curious why you think that it wasn't at all impacted by OW?  And would it be so bad if it was?

The first woman to offer a prayer in GC came immediately after the "Let Women Pray" activity, and though the Church says it wasn't influenced by that, it's awfully coincidental timing.  In the last year(ish), there has been a great deal of Mormon Feminist activity and dialogue.  There has also been a greater effort on the Church's part to bring visibility and autonomy to women of the Church: lowered mission eligibility, female mission trainers, semi-annual women's conference (instead of YW and RS), auxiliary presidencies portraits hung in the conference center, a female PR rep responding to the OW group, and more.  I think that these are all good things.  I think the Church recognizes the desires and the hurt that many women feel, and they are taking steps to show sympathy and ackowledgement, while still maintaining purity of doctrine.  I do think the rearranged seating was influenced by OW, and I think it's a good thing.  It's tantamount to "We see you, we hear you," while still maintaining a firm and unwavering doctrinal position.

[estradling75]

I didn't notice that myself, but I did see someone else comment on it.

 

I'm curious why you think that it wasn't at all impacted by OW?  And would it be so bad if it was?

The first woman to offer a prayer in GC came immediately after the "Let Women Pray" activity, and though the Church says it wasn't influenced by that, it's awfully coincidental timing.  In the last year(ish), there has been a great deal of Mormon Feminist activity and dialogue.  There has also been a greater effort on the Church's part to bring visibility and autonomy to women of the Church: lowered mission eligibility, female mission trainers, semi-annual women's conference (instead of YW and RS), auxiliary presidencies portraits hung in the conference center, a female PR rep responding to the OW group, and more.  I think that these are all good things.  I think the Church recognizes the desires and the hurt that many women feel, and they are taking steps to show sympathy and ackowledgement, while still maintaining purity of doctrine.  I do think the rearranged seating was influenced by OW, and I think it's a good thing.  It's tantamount to "We see you, we hear you," while still maintaining a firm and unwavering doctrinal position.

 

 

The problem with that is that groups that agetate for change don't respond with such things with "oh good we are done now."  Gerenerally speaking they respond with "oh they are weakening lets push harder."

 

This leads people to conclude that the Church is more lead by social pressure then by the Lord.  People tend to forget about the 'living' part of the declaration of "True and Living Church"  Living things can and do change within the limits of their nature.  And so does the Church under the direction of the Lord through his servants

[Just_A_Guy]

I agree with Estradling, but I also think the correlation between some recent minor changes and some recent agitation is more than coincidental. And I'm glad to see that--unlike my natural inclination--the Church doesn't double down on a policy just because of the absurd antics and dubious long-term aims of a group that wants to see the policy changed.

[Wingnut]

I understand what you're saying, estradling, but I still think it's good that the Church is acknowledging the please of many women in the Church, daughters of God, who do feel marginalized for whatever reasons.  The Church is showing that they do sympathize, or at least that they hear these women.  I don't see a change anytime soon on the ordination issue (if ever), but I think that these recent steps the Church has taken will help to assuage many.  And I think that's important.

 

Even if it is announced this morning that women may now receive the Priesthood, the dialogue would likely then shift to a countdown or campaign to have a woman prophet/president of the Church, which would likely take another half-century or more.  I know that the requests/desires/demands will change over time.  But I don't think that means that the Church can't or shouldn't change trivial things (like seating arrangements) in the meantime, even if only to say "we see you, we hear you, we love you."

[The Folk Prophet]

I don't think the church is changing things because women "feel" marginalized. I think they change things where they decide women "are" marginalized. If and when change is appropriate, they change, despite the fact that it may look like they are caving. If and when it is inappropriate to change, they will not, despite the fact it makes them look like bigoted old codgers.

 

I think there is important dialogue from women that is influential in these changes. I do not thing that any of the dialogue coming from OW is part of that important dialogue or has any influence at all.

[skippy740]

I could envision that a meeting of some of the Bretheren went something like this:

 

"We got a letter from this group that feels that mormon women don't feel included in the church.  Do you think they're right?"

 

"We are operating under the doctrines of the church... so I wonder what we can do that isn't spelled out in the scriptures?"

 

"You know, women haven't said prayers in General Conference.  Is there anything in revealed scripture that it has to be a priesthood holder?"

 

"No... as long as the presiding authority is present, anyone can offer a prayer for the meeting."

 

"What about the conference center?  We've got lots of pictures of the current and past leaders of the church... how about the Relief Society, Young Women, and Primary General Presidencies?"

 

"Yeah, we can do that."

 

"Does it matter where the Relief Society, Young Women, and Primary General Presidencies sit in General Conference?"

 

"No... why not have them more prominent, and not on the side?"

 

"Yeah, we can do that too."

 

"Let's make sure we have a female Public Relations Representative to respond to this, or it may cause further ill-will."

 

"Yeah, we've got a few.  I've got one in mind.  I'll ask her to address this question and concern."

 

"Okay, but now we've got this other group that wants the priesthood."

 

"Sorry, but until new revelation is received on this, we cannot divert from the way the Lord wants it done.  What we've got (and other things in the works we may not yet know about) will have to do for now."

[Just_A_Guy]

There's a story about Mitt Romney as a stake president meeting with a group of feminists and drawing three columns entitled "things we can change", "things we can't change", and "things we can look into". I imaging the top echelons of the Church engaging a similar process.

[pam]

I think a lot of these things have been in the dialogue within the church leadership for quite some time.  Part of that dialogue combining the RS session and having it for all girls and women 8 and up.  

 

There are some that didn't realize that women were spokesmen for the church but yet they have been for awhile now.