Non-LDS view of God

[Jane_Doe]

I've been thinking, and realized I don't really understand "mainstream" Chirstian viewpoint of God.  I would like to, as a I try to be respectful and understand other faiths.  So, I was wondering if anyone who's spent time in a different faith could help me out.

 

From a non-LDS veiwpoint, whom/what is God?  Why did He create the Earth and us?

[Sunday21]

When investigating the church I spoke to other Christians. I was hoping to find an easier way to have God in my life. You know, no tithing. You can have sex if you really love each other. I talked to some devout Lutherans who told me that no one can really know if there is a God. This struck me as sad. How do you go forward and make commitments, if you do not know? This suggests to me that personal revelation is less common outside the church. Also when I suggest to Catholic friends that they pray for answers, they become hostile. Something odd there. Perhaps, there is a lack of guidance with respect to personal prayer? So they know, they should but they don't know how? Or they have little success and feel frustrated?

[NextElement]

I'll give you the view of God from my Catholic background (and it's a very hard view to overcome, btw):

God is the unmoved mover who created the entire universe and everything in it. He always was and always will be, and is omniscient in every way. Now if you're wondering about the Trinity, I can give you a simple explanation: God is a being, made up of three persons: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Like I said, they are different persons, but of the same substance (consubstantial). No one can say for certain why God did what he did, but we assume he created humans to have something to share his love with that knew right from wrong (created in his image: Free will love, a sense of good and evil).

[Irishcolleen]

From a born again Christian perspective:

 

1. There is only one God.  He has always been God, there are no gods before Him and there will be none after Him.

2. He is and has always been omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent.

3.He created all things by His power.

4. He is and has always been holy, merciful, just, and loving.

5. He is faithful, He is unchanging

6. He created us for His pleasure- He wanted to create and love us. (4:11)

 

Ok, that is some basic theology.  If you like I can post the supporting verses later.  You also need to know that as  Christian, God is everything.  He strengthens me.  He is with me always.  He loves me always.  He gives me security and hope.  I can always go to Him.  He is a perfect Father. He desires my love and worship.  His Word tells me that no one or nothing can separate Him from His love.  He is my constant.  Even when I have been through unbelievably hard trials I have had hope because I know that He is there and will always be who He says He is. 

 

I look forward to being in His presence in heaven.  He has been preparing a place for me.  He took 6 days to create the earth-a pretty cool place.  But, He has spent more than 2000 years preparing a place for those who love Him.  I can't even imagine how amazing it will be.

[Guest]

This suggests to me that personal revelation is less common outside the church. Also when I suggest to Catholic friends that they pray for answers, they become hostile. Something odd there. Perhaps, there is a lack of guidance with respect to personal prayer? So they know, they should but they don't know how? Or they have little success and feel frustrated?

 

Personal revelation is very common in Christian faiths.  They just don't call it Personal Revelation.  That term is an LDS term.  Just like Holy Ghost is an LDS term, Holy Spirit is the Catholic equivalent.  Testimony is an LDS term, Free Agency is an LDS term.  Yes, they use it in other Christian Faiths but not as "everyday lingo" like LDS does.  But it doesn't mean that other Christian faiths don't have it or practice it.

 

I don't know what kind of Catholics you were talking to... but Catholics are one of the most prayerful bunch out there.  They have prayer books for everything.  You bought a new car?  There's a prayer book that has lots of intercessory prayers for Saints that has any experience with moving vehicles or travel... You're going on a cruise?  There's prayer books for those too.  You got a new job?  You're depressed, you're lonely, you're confused, you're anything.... there's a prayer book for anything... Clock struck 3?  There's the Angelus... And if you don't have a prayer book, you can always just pray using your own words... 

[Guest]

I'll give you the view of God from my Catholic background (and it's a very hard view to overcome, btw):

God is the unmoved mover who created the entire universe and everything in it. He always was and always will be, and is omniscient in every way. Now if you're wondering about the Trinity, I can give you a simple explanation: God is a being, made up of three persons: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Like I said, they are different persons, but of the same substance (consubstantial). No one can say for certain why God did what he did, but we assume he created humans to have something to share his love with that knew right from wrong (created in his image: Free will love, a sense of good and evil).

 

In Catholic teaching - we do know.  God created us out of Love is doctrine.

[prisonchaplain]

Besides the three "omnis" (knowledge, power, presence), it is helpful to know that traditional Christians of nearly all denominations believe that humans were created in time.  We did not pre-exist, nor is their an eternal back-story for us--not even as some kind of intelligence.  Yes, our future is eternal.  However, we believe God made us "out of nothing."  Okay--maybe he used dirt--but the dirt, he made from nothing.

 

So...God is always above us.  He is always Creator.  We are always created.  We do expect a glorification of our existance.  We shall become godlike in many ways.  However, we do not expect to become what He is.  And, as the others have indicated, we do not believe God was ever what we are now.

 

Trinity is tough to explain.  Suffice to say, we believe God is one and alone in his ultimate deity.  However, he is also three persons.  There is no speculation here.  No mother God, and no prior gods.

 

To some LDS, it seems we are forever restricted, limited, and subservient. Traditional Christians have never felt that way.  We are grateful for God's blessings, the promise of Heaven, the future roles we'll play.  We expect no regrets whatsoever in heaven.

[Jane_Doe]

Besides the three "omnis" (knowledge, power, presence), it is helpful to know that traditional Christians of nearly all denominations believe that humans were created in time.  We did not pre-exist, nor is their an eternal back-story for us--not even as some kind of intelligence.  Yes, our future is eternal.  However, we believe God made us "out of nothing."  Okay--maybe he used dirt--but the dirt, he made from nothing.

 

So...God is always above us.  He is always Creator.  We are always created.  We do expect a glorification of our existance.  We shall become godlike in many ways.  However, we do not expect to become what He is.  And, as the others have indicated, we do not believe God was ever what we are now.

 

Trinity is tough to explain.  Suffice to say, we believe God is one and alone in his ultimate deity.  However, he is also three persons.  There is no speculation here.  No mother God, and no prior gods.

 

To some LDS, it seems we are forever restricted, limited, and subservient. Traditional Christians have never felt that way.  We are grateful for God's blessings, the promise of Heaven, the future roles we'll play.  We expect no regrets whatsoever in heaven.

 

I admit, coming from an LDS perspective, I do find this view to be restrictive.  If God just created us, and there's a huge line between creator and created, if we're never be like Him; if He just created us to Love us....

 

The situation you describe  reminds me of a child with his toys: created just to be loved (and indeed are cherished) but a toy will never be more than a toy--- it's only role is to be played with by the kid.   Am I off base?  

 

Admittedly, I am trying to understand by struggling to.   How does the above view make us God's children?   

[Guest]

I admit, coming from an LDS perspective, I do find this view to be restrictive.  If God just created us, and there's a huge line between creator and created, if we're never be like Him; if He just created us to Love us....

 

The situation you describe  reminds me of a child with his toys: created just to be loved (and indeed are cherished) but a toy will never be more than a toy--- it's only role is to be played with by the kid.   Am I off base?  

 

Admittedly, I am trying to understand by struggling to.   How does the above view make us God's children?   

 

Yes, it sounds lame if we were toys.  But we're not.  We are God's children because He created us.  Our toys will not be who we are - they will not have the same feelings, the same desires, the same love.

 

If you consider the Will of the Father as a solid entity - a substance - then we understand the Trinitarian God - because everything else under the PERSONs of God is the same.  In Trinitarian thought - we can be who Jesus Christ as a person is.  And that's exactly what Jesus Christ showed us - that we can be like Him.  No, we can't be God - because we are not that soild entity - that substance - that is God.  But everything else we can be.

[Quin]

There's also the NT / OT split view of God...

"Ours is a vengeful God" vs "Ours is a loving God"

&

"Hell Damnation Wickedness Sin Brimstone Suffering" vs "Salvation Love Good Works etc."

Ahem. The 4 above are actually 4, not 2.

Churches tend to mix & match.

A lot of "Vengeful God" churches pair "Salvation, Love, Good Works", for example.

While a whoooooole lot of "Loving God" churches focus on the "Hell Damnation Purge the wickedness, can I get an amen? Amen! Rip our enemies to shreds upon the alter of his mercy!"

Shrug. Or you can get the Loving God + Salvation, or the Vengeful God + Perdition.

Also... It's probably keen to note that many branches of Christianity (Calvinist, for example) believe that there are limited spots in Heaven. Some as little as 700. So it doesn't matter how good you are in this life, if there's anyone better than you. It explains a lot of the moroseness in Reformation writers... As well as both the ethos of "I'm damned anyway, might as well make it count" & the driving need of some churches to demonize everyone but themselves. Since not even all of their OWN members shall ascend to heaven, best to keep the odds as much in their favor as possible by determining everyone else as evil, sinful, inhuman to begin with.

I'm noting where one goes when they die as a version of God, because all 4 versions of God listed above, also split into heaven has room for all, or heaven has room for only a select few.

Q

[Irishcolleen]

I admit, coming from an LDS perspective, I do find this view to be restrictive.  If God just created us, and there's a huge line between creator and created, if we're never be like Him; if He just created us to Love us....

 

The situation you describe  reminds me of a child with his toys: created just to be loved (and indeed are cherished) but a toy will never be more than a toy--- it's only role is to be played with by the kid.   Am I off base?  

 

Admittedly, I am trying to understand by struggling to.   How does the above view make us God's children?   

Yeah, you're off base.  We are not God's play things we are His beloved creation.  He loved us so much He sent His son to pay for our sin.  He rejoices when we come to Him and grieves if we choose not to .love Him.  I think you don't get the depth of love we believe God has for us. It is an all encompassing, eternal love for us as individuals. 

 

We are adopted as His children when we put our trust in Him. John 1:12, "But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:" 

[Irishcolleen]

There's also the NT / OT split view of God...

"Ours is a vengeful God" vs "Ours is a loving God"

&

"Hell Damnation Wickedness Sin Brimstone Suffering" vs "Salvation Love Good Works etc."

Ahem. The 4 above are actually 4, not 2.

Churches tend to mix & match.

A lot of "Vengeful God" churches pair "Salvation, Love, Good Works", for example.

While a whoooooole lot of "Loving God" churches focus on the "Hell Damnation Purge the wickedness, can I get an amen? Amen! Rip our enemies to shreds upon the alter of his mercy!"

Shrug. Or you can get the Loving God + Salvation, or the Vengeful God + Perdition.

Also... It's probably keen to note that many branches of Christianity (Calvinist, for example) believe that there are limited spots in Heaven. Some as little as 700. So it doesn't matter how good you are in this life, if there's anyone better than you. It explains a lot of the moroseness in Reformation writers... As well as both the ethos of "I'm damned anyway, might as well make it count" & the driving need of some churches to demonize everyone but themselves. Since not even all of their OWN members shall ascend to heaven, best to keep the odds as much in their favor as possible by determining everyone else as evil, sinful, inhuman to begin with.

I'm noting where one goes when they die as a version of God, because all 4 versions of God listed above, also split into heaven has room for all, or heaven has room for only a select few.

Q

God is loving and just.  Because of His justice and holiness there needs to be a punishment for sin.  God's love and mercy is the reason why He sent His Son- Jesus came to pay the punishment for our sin. People can accept Christ's payment for their sin or reject it.  God isn't going to force people to accept a gift they don't want.  If people reject Christ's payment of their sin- they have to take the punishment for it- hell.  Anyone- (I believe only JW's believe Heaven is limited to a certain number) who, by faith, accepts Christ has their sin paid for and will go to heaven.

 

I anticipate your next thought: "But then people can sin all they want and get into heaven!"   Then I will ask you to read Romans to understand how the Spirit leads us and how we are a new creation and how we serve a new master..

[FiveNine]

Being of a Baptist upbringing I was taught that God was the only God and that there is one Godhead as in God, Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit are one in the same. This happened to have been a view I always disagreed with though since a child because the idea of such a belief did not feel right in my heart. 

 

That is about as simple as I can put it without going into a large amount of extra detail.

[Quin]

God is loving and just.  Because of His justice and holiness there needs to be a punishment for sin.  God's love and mercy is the reason why He sent His Son- Jesus came to pay the punishment for our sin. People can accept Christ's payment for their sin or reject it.  God isn't going to force people to accept a gift they don't want.  If people reject Christ's payment of their sin- they have to take the punishment for it- hell.  Anyone- (I believe only JW's believe Heaven is limited to a certain number) who, by faith, accepts Christ has their sin paid for and will go to heaven.

 

I anticipate your next thought: "But then people can sin all they want and get into heaven!"   Then I will ask you to read Romans to understand how the Spirit leads us and how we are a new creation and how we serve a new master..

I'm not saying that these are MY views of Heavenly Father!

I'm saying that these are the views of God that I've come into contact with in a lifetime of attending my friends' churches. (Also other faiths, but as the question was limited to a Christian view of God, I limited my answer to my experience & understanding of other Christian faiths. I grew up in a military/diplomatic household... And grew up all over the world. Part of my parents sending their kids to their friends' places of worship was good politics, but the other part is that my parents are basically agnostic. I have a heavier background in Catholicism -with a heavy slant into Jesuit & Benedictine philosophies- than most versions of Christianity... But I've also spent several years in Anglican, Baptist, Southern Baptist, Calvinist, Mixed Protestant... With a smattering of Society of Friends/Quaker, Unitarian, Lutheran, VooDouan, etc.). Some of these are/were concurrent. For example, I attended Temple Beth Am every Saturday for 2 years with my friend Mikey & his family, while attending a Southern California Protestant church every Sunday with my friend Meghan & her family, with Catholic Mass on Wednesday with my Uncle who lived locally..)

Loving & Just & Heaven for All -who earn it- is ONE of the combos, for sure.

And the combos I listed aren't all inclusive, there are definitely other options out there, as well!

But those 6 are some of the most common.

Q

[prisonchaplain]

I like this post, because it is authentic.  You ask questions, yet state the flaw you see in our thinking.  Thank you.  The answer I can give you is that the imagio dei--the image of God in us, is what makes us special.  Besides, I suspect that even in LDS theology, that after exaltation, the very fact that God has been God much longer than the exalted one has been exalted, suggests that there will always me a measure of difference.  Many here have told me that they will always worship God, even while they speculate on what the glory of their exaltation will be.

 

It is enough for us traditionalists that we will be with God forever, that will will experience unfathomable intimacy with him, and that we will be glorified by him.  How that all ends up looking is a matter we trust him with.  Still, please know, that I understand the appeal of the LDS teaching on this. 

 

 

I admit, coming from an LDS perspective, I do find this view to be restrictive.  If God just created us, and there's a huge line between creator and created, if we're never be like Him; if He just created us to Love us....

 

The situation you describe  reminds me of a child with his toys: created just to be loved (and indeed are cherished) but a toy will never be more than a toy--- it's only role is to be played with by the kid.   Am I off base?  

 

Admittedly, I am trying to understand by struggling to.   How does the above view make us God's children?   

[prisonchaplain]

FWIW, I know there are many who have heard what sounded like a two-headed God.  The mean OT one and the loving NT one.  It's not accurate, and such teaching is probably the result of over-simplifying matters.  For example, most of the teaching about hell is NT.  Jesus gave us the most vivid description in his account of Lazarus and the rich man.  Also, was it not the merciful God of the OT who sent Jonah to Ninevah? 

 

Churches (most) do not teach the sharply contrasted OT/NT versions of God, officially, as doctrine.  However, we sometimes muff it up in our singular lessons. 

[Maureen]

...Loving & Just & Heaven for All -who earn it- is ONE of the combos, for sure....

Q

Quin, I'm curious what you mean by this statement.

 

M.

[Maureen]

For me I believe God has always existed before the beginning of time and space; and he has always existed as Father, Son and Holy Spirit. And the persons of Father, Son and Holy Spirit have relationships with each other.

 

The universe, mankind and all that exist (including time and space) were created by God. God is existence itself and without God, we would not exist.

 

We are God's children because he created us out of love, we are created in his image. He created us with certain gifts. He created us to think, to love, to explore, to be curious, to adapt, to investigate, etc...ourselves and everything around us.

 

Mankind is sinful and through Christ, who is God, we are saved. The only one that could save us is God himself. He created us in time but he has given us eternal life through his love.

 

M. 

[Jane_Doe]

Thank you everyone for your posts, I think it has greatly helped my understanding.  I am trying really hard at this and feel I still have a long way to go.  Is the following getting closer to the generic-Christian view?  (I am particularly trying to understand Evangelical view points).  I apologize in advance for any possible foot-in-mouth things I might say. 

 

So, men are only God's creation, not literally His children, correct?  We are created in His image, but only in the spiritual fashion, as God doesn't have a body (is that why I get the impression that many generic Christians think the human body is evil?).  We didn't exist before being born... so technically Jesus died for all of us alive now even when we didn't exist...  When a generic-Christian dies they hope to live with God, but for the first time ever--- because if I've only existed for the last couple decades then I've never actually lived with God before.  But what exactly are we going to be doing?

 

As PC said, This viewpoint makes me feel small.  Like beyond microscopic and God is a behemoth.  Do you feel this way?  Why?  It can't be that generic-Christians think they don't matter to God: He had His Son died for us!  I could understand feeling small when we sin from my life and the scriptures, but once sins are washed away there is no need for that.  Do you feel small?  Do you feel intimidated by God?

 

Ok... I now apologize for putting WAY too many theological topics into a single thread post.

[prisonchaplain]

Jane, you are thinking theologically.  In other words you are thinking intellgently and deeply about God.  That's good.  Do I feel small before God.  Yes--and no.  Like Isaiah, I might be tempted to fall down before God, and cry out for mercy.  Yet, the Apostle Paul says we may go boldy now to the throne of grace. 

 

God loves me.  His image is in me.  I sometimes feel his presence.  We are told we will see what he sees and know what he knows.  We shall rule and reign with him.  We'll no longer know sorrow, death, sickness or regret in the Kingdom.  God's presence will provide light.  In other words, we'll know him directly, whereas today we know him by the reflection of his created things.

 

It is heady stuff.  The short answer to your question is that the unredeemed me is small indeed.  The born-again, Spirit-filled, heaven-bound me feels quite big.  I am a friend of God, and a child of God.  There will be no regrets.

[Quin]

Quin, I'm curious what you mean by this statement.

M.

It's one of the ways I have Christianity divided up in my head / various beliefs of the afterlife... In response to Irishcolleen's below.

God is loving and just. Because of His justice and holiness there needs to be a punishment for sin. God's love and mercy is the reason why He sent His Son- Jesus came to pay the punishment for our sin. People can accept Christ's payment for their sin or reject it. God isn't going to force people to accept a gift they don't want. If people reject Christ's payment of their sin- they have to take the punishment for it- hell. Anyone- (I believe only JW's believe Heaven is limited to a certain number) who, by faith, accepts Christ has their sin paid for and will go to heaven.

I anticipate your next thought: "But then people can sin all they want and get into heaven!" Then I will ask you to read Romans to understand how the Spirit leads us and how we are a new creation and how we serve a new master..

Christian faiths differentiate themselves from each other in a lot of different ways (those combos I was going on about, Loving God vs Vengeful God is just one of many many ways). One of those ways is entry into heaven.

In some, all one has to do is accept Christ. Automatic entry.

In others, like what IC was describing, one has to accept Christ AND do XYZ.

(There are a whole lot of other options I'm going to skip for brevity, but it's a couple dozen variations off the top of my head).

XYZ changes depending on what denomination you are.

That's what I meant by "earn" it.

Following up on those steps required by your faith.

In most Christian faiths, those steps have to be done while still in this life.

A baby, in a lot of Christian faiths for example, will go to purgatory or hell if it's not baptized.

"Emergency baptisms" & last rites are done in ERs & maternity wards all the time. For just that reason.

Ditto, confession is required in a lot of faiths. If you don't confess your sins before you die , you're outta luck. Your immortal soul will not be given enterence into heaven.

Others, though, either don't require confession or flat out don't allow it (kind of opposite sides of the spectrum).

But those are only 2 steps (baptism & repenting sin) out of probably hundreds of options.

Some are action based, but most are faith based or avoidance based.

Judaism & Islam are action based religions, but most Christian sects are faith based.

The LDS Church is a little quirky in that it's one of the more action based denominations. (Also that our view of the afterlife is neither binary, nor static).

But even most Christian denominations require certain actions to be made (or avoided) in order to reach heaven.

How Heaven is earned, and what those steps are, is super varied.

Clear as mud?

Q

[Irishcolleen]

Thank you everyone for your posts, I think it has greatly helped my understanding.  I am trying really hard at this and feel I still have a long way to go.  Is the following getting closer to the generic-Christian view?  (I am particularly trying to understand Evangelical view points).  I apologize in advance for any possible foot-in-mouth things I might say. 

 

So, men are only God's creation, not literally His children, correct?  We are created in His image, but only in the spiritual fashion, as God doesn't have a body (is that why I get the impression that many generic Christians think the human body is evil?).  We didn't exist before being born... so technically Jesus died for all of us alive now even when we didn't exist...  When a generic-Christian dies they hope to live with God, but for the first time ever--- because if I've only existed for the last couple decades then I've never actually lived with God before.  But what exactly are we going to be doing?

 

As PC said, This viewpoint makes me feel small.  Like beyond microscopic and God is a behemoth.  Do you feel this way?  Why?  It can't be that generic-Christians think they don't matter to God: He had His Son died for us!  I could understand feeling small when we sin from my life and the scriptures, but once sins are washed away there is no need for that.  Do you feel small?  Do you feel intimidated by God?

 

Ok... I now apologize for putting WAY too many theological topics into a single thread post.

I feel appropriately small, but not in a bad way.  I feel awe and reverence because of God's great power, holiness and love.  It amazes me to think that the Creator of all things loves me so much that He sent His Son to to pay for my sin. I feel special and loved beyond measure to know that this great God knows the number of hairs on my head and has my name graven in His hands. (LK 12:7, IS 49:16).

 

God can have anything He wants.  Yet, for some reason He desired me!  I see all my imperfections, my limited understanding, etc... and yet He loves ME!  (Rom 5:8).  It makes me feel loved, cherished, protected, secure... It is the most amazing feeling!

 

Read this Psalm.

Psalm 139

King James Version (KJV)

139 O lord, thou hast searched me, and known me.

² Thou knowest my downsitting and mine uprising, thou understandest my thought afar off.

³ Thou compassest my path and my lying down, and art acquainted with all my ways.

⁴ For there is not a word in my tongue, but, lo, O Lord, thou knowest it altogether.

⁵ Thou hast beset me behind and before, and laid thine hand upon me.

⁶ Such knowledge is too wonderful for me; it is high, I cannot attain unto it.

⁷ Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence?

⁸ If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.

⁹ If I take the wings of the morning, and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea;

¹⁰ Even there shall thy hand lead me, and thy right hand shall hold me.

¹¹ If I say, Surely the darkness shall cover me; even the night shall be light about me.

¹² Yea, the darkness hideth not from thee; but the night shineth as the day: the darkness and the light are both alike to thee.

¹³ For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother's womb.

¹⁴ I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well.

¹⁵ My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.

¹⁶ Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them.

¹⁷ How precious also are thy thoughts unto me, O God! how great is the sum of them!

¹⁸ If I should count them, they are more in number than the sand: when I awake, I am still with thee.

¹⁹ Surely thou wilt slay the wicked, O God: depart from me therefore, ye bloody men.

²⁰ For they speak against thee wickedly, and thine enemies take thy name in vain.

²¹ Do not I hate them, O Lord, that hate thee? and am not I grieved with those that rise up against thee?

²² I hate them with perfect hatred: I count them mine enemies.

²³ Search me, O God, and know my heart: try me, and know my thoughts:

²⁴ And see if there be any wicked way in me, and lead me in the way everlasting.

[Maureen]

...But even most Christian denominations require certain actions to be made (or avoided) in order to reach heaven.

How Heaven is earned, and what those steps are, is super varied.

Clear as mud?

Q

 

So do you see these other denominations view these actions as something earned or do you yourself see these actions as something earned? Do you see faith in Christ as an action that earns believers to Heaven?

 

M.

[faith4]

 

So, men are only God's creation, not literally His children, correct?  We are created in His image, but only in the spiritual fashion, as God doesn't have a body (is that why I get the impression that many generic Christians think the human body is evil?).  We didn't exist before being born... so technically Jesus died for all of us alive now even when we didn't exist...  When a generic-Christian dies they hope to live with God, but for the first time ever--- because if I've only existed for the last couple decades then I've never actually lived with God before.  But what exactly are we going to be doing?

 

As PC said, This viewpoint makes me feel small.  Like beyond microscopic and God is a behemoth.  Do you feel this way?  Why?  It can't be that generic-Christians think they don't matter to God: He had His Son died for us!  I could understand feeling small when we sin from my life and the scriptures, but once sins are washed away there is no need for that.  Do you feel small?  Do you feel intimidated by God?

 

 

God created us out of love, and we are made in his image and likeness b/c we have been created with reason, and we have a soul.  We are his children through adoption, when Jesus came to earth and became a human, he became like one of us.  He taught us about the Kingdom of God and showed us what love truly meant, by dying for us.  When our first parents sinned in the garden long ago, death was introduced into the world, and there was nothing Adam and Eve could do to bridge the gap that death made through sin, because they were now fallen and sinful.  No sacrifice they made would be enough to re-conquer death.  However, since Jesus was sinless and perfect, He could take on our humanity and make that perfect sacrifice which would defeat death and bridge the gap between humanity and God.  And since Jesus is the Son of God, and we, His brothers and sisters through our humanity, we too can now say we are the children of God. 

 

"For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, "Abba! Father!""  Rom 8:15.

 

The sacrifice of Himself is enough for all of humanity, because He is God and His sacrifice is infinite.  So even though He died (and resurrected) nearly 2000 years ago, His offering of Himself covers all of humanity.  I'm not sure which Christians believe the human body is evil, but Catholics do not. 

 

[andypg]

Thought I should share this. If I ever want to know what a Christian thinks about something, I go to Fr. Robert Barron. He makes quick videos for YouTube on timely topics, and has done a 10 part series on Catholicism for PBS (which I recommend to anyone regardless of faith).

 

This is a video he made for YouTube called "Who God Is & Who God Isn't"

 

Here is a short clip from the episode of the Catholicism series that discusses God.

(The entire 1 hour episode on God is well worth watching)

 

To quote Thomas Aquinas, God is Ipsum esse subsistens, that is Subsistent Act of Existing Itself.