The message is for everyone but the culture is not.

[Lakumi]

...

[The Folk Prophet]

Repent of [Our] Selfishness

[The Folk Prophet]

Put Off the Natural Man, and Come Off Conqueror

[The Folk Prophet]

The Gospel in Our Lives

[The Folk Prophet]

Anxiously Engaged

[The Folk Prophet]

Read those ^ then we'll talk. :)

[Lakumi]

Repent of [Our] Selfishness

 

Okay this was a kind of a darker article

[skalenfehl]

... One cannot really be Mormon without going to church and being in the culture, can they?

 

What do you all think? I'm sure a few of you have encountered the introverted before?

 

Sure they can. But having been in different wards and branches in different countries, I can tell you that the "Mormon Culture" is not all the same. When I moved to Utah, I discovered a "unique" culture all its own. I personally do not equate this "culture" with what Zion is intended to be for surely in Zion all are equal in  heavenly things. My wife is very independent minded and very introverted. She struggles in the company of  fellow members in large numbers, especially in Relief Society. But she never hesitates to fill a need when she sees one whether in "church" or anywhere else in the neighborhood, in town or among strangers. One can be a private person and mourn with someone who mourns together. One can fast and pray for another and be of service to him or her without sounding a trumpet. There is something to be said, however, to being one heart and one mind with everyone is Zion. Surely in Zion, nobody is introverted. In the meanwhile, I sympathize with your plight. God bless you. 

[The Folk Prophet]

Okay this was a kind of a darker article

 

Meekness, humility, serving others, and unselfishness is dark? O................kaaaay.......

[Lakumi]

No it was what selfishness could cause (murder, breaking of commandments), I admit fully, I am a selfish human being, I dislike a lot of things and am very unmoving in my thoughts.

But I don't use others, I have respect for most people I come across, I liked the other articles but this one, not so much.

I don't see my introverted nature as a plight, it is just another part of who I am.

 

[Dravin]

Introverted works in the Church. Social anxiety or being antisocial doesn't work so well, but they aren't the same thing as being introverts. Even though being antisocial or having social anxiety is almost always paired with being introverted, the reverse isn't necessarily the case. There are plenty of introverted people who aren't antisocial or have social anxiety.

[Lakumi]

To set the record straight, yes I do have social problems, diagnosed and all, my introverted nature came later. I can enjoy social situations in certain places.

Some people, yes are just shy, I actually have issues.

[Dravin]

To set the record straight, yes I do have social problems, diagnosed and all, my introverted nature came later. I can enjoy social situations in certain places.

Some people, yes are just shy, I actually have issues.

 

My point was not to call you out as having any particular issues, just pointing out that there is a distinction between these things and that introverted works just fine in the Church.

 

As far as the general topic of changing to conform or at least being comfortable with LDS culture. It's a gospel of change. While there is variety, and some aspects of culture aren't important in a gospel sense, at some level the response to, "I'm not..." or "I don't like..." is, "You need to become...". Obviously that is much easier said than done, but I think it does to a degree confirm your thought, at some level one does need to change to be an invested Mormon and if one can't or won't change they can't or won't really be Mormon (to borrow your phrasing).

 

Now just what that level is a sticky issue, and I've intentionally not addressed it because the line between necessary changes and over-conforming is a field for lively debate and I'm trying not to get bogged down in those specifics.

[Lakumi]

i understand why you'd not want to get bogged down by such things.

[NextElement]

"Mormon Culture" was one of the things that originally brought me to learn more about the Church. My best friends are all Mormon, and I've yet to meet guys as pure and devoted to God as them (which is something rare for 18 year old guys). The thing I probably like most about the Church is the social nature of it.... To me, Christ would want his Church to be very active together and supportive of each other. I'm sure the early Church was that way, and the restored Church echoes that!

[estradling75]

Many people think the whole purpose of going to church is to be spiritually uplifted.  While that can be a side effect if a person thinks that is the whole of the message then they don't understand the message.  People that have that mindset quickly find that getting spiritually lifted at church can be a struggle.  So they turn to solo pursuits to gain that uplift.

 

But church isn't just about delivering the message.  Its about living the message.  Patience, kindness, forgiveness, service, and several other things are what the message tells us we need to do.  Going to church and dealing with all the other people whom we wouldn't otherwise have to can give the us the chance to live the message.  We all struggle with this to varying degrees at varying times in our lives.  Some times we are the ones that need to uplift others and sometimes we give others the chance to uplift us.

[Lakumi]

One could argue you can live those teachings elsewhere, I also wish they had later services in the day, I hate mornings and when I do work my average hours are 2-10pm, or some variation within that frame.
I usually wake up around 11 am and go to bed round 2-3 am,
The time frame I enjoy is not only because its when I feel most awake, its also the best time to get hours in a lot of jobs. People don't like to work those hours, especially on weekends.

But if that was my only issue then this would be a far less indepth discussion.

[estradling75]

One could argue you can live those teachings elsewhere,

 

 

You can... Living those teaching require you to interact with people socially (Which is were your real problem appears to be)  Which means there is going to be a culture, and time restraints.

 

So if a person really like the message enough to try to live it then one of the best options is to be around other who are also trying to live the same message.  You can of course try to do it with other groups but then you are really just swapping one set of problems for another.

[Lakumi]

Very true, very true...

[Quin]

One could argue you can live those teachings elsewhere, I also wish they had later services in the day, I hate mornings and when I do work my average hours are 2-10pm, or some variation within that frame.

I usually wake up around 11 am and go to bed round 2-3 am,

The time frame I enjoy is not only because its when I feel most awake, its also the best time to get hours in a lot of jobs. People don't like to work those hours, especially on weekends.

But if that was my only issue then this would be a far less indepth discussion.

My first year in I was tricked, I tell you, tricked! (Just kidding).

Our ward met at 1pm.

Which was (cough IS) perfect.

Oy vey.

And THEN I learned about switching time slots.

Face. Palm.

9am doesn't work.

11am is hit & miss.

I often wonder if people could come to the time that worked for them & their families how many more inactive people would attend?

Q

[Lakumi]

Oh no one could trick me, I am very suspicious lol

More to the point, what does a single, crazed, introverted individual have to offer a family culture anyway?

Oh I remember I had to be less well slinky because the missionaries never knew I had come so I always felt they started their day off kind of bummed out then realized to their shock and amazement (and I could see it on their faces) I had been there the whole time.

It was like stepping into a whole other world of people, I even held my hands differently (the Namaste style).
The only true craziness was me, and it's far (well as far as something can be in a large town).

 

I was suddenly reminded about a talk a friend and I had, and how she said the church would boot me out and I remember saying how I'd want any talk that I might have given to rhyme...

[Quin]

To go back to your original question, though:

I think the simple/short answer is "Yup".

Longer (Quinn Long) though?

No... I really think there's probably a place for everyone.

It's just that people aren't lucky enough to always live in the place that they'd belong.

Religions, in general, are self selecting groups.

And then within those groups, are a whole lotta microcosms.

Even though the gospel is the same in the LDS Church, no matter where you go, the PEOPLE practicing it are different.

I wuv wuv wuv my ward.

It's an extremely diverse group of very young adults and very old.

From a LOT of different cultures and backgrounds. I fit in there.

But I travel for work, and as such attend sacrament at maybe 20 different wards a year.

(Actually, first year I had this job my Bishop thought I'd gone less active. Whoops. Not exactly.)

Some of those wards I visit, I reeeeeeally don't fit in.

Now... I "blend". It's what I was raised to do, and I'm pretty good at it.

So I can generally walk into most places, anywhere, and make OTHER people think I belong.

But that's different from ACTUALLY fitting in, ya know?

Others I simply fall in love with, but they're very homogenous in certain ways.

Certain very DIFFERENT ways.

Like I can't even imagine how A + B would get along if those wards somehow got in teleport and merged.

(I can imagine. It's bad. Very very bad.)

And others are like my own ward.

So some is certainly luck of the draw.

Do you happen to live near a group of like minded people?

If not? It can be hard.

Even in the same religion.

I took a girlfriend of mine (inactive for over 20 years) to church with me one Sunday...

And she came away saying "Wow. Your ward is weird. I love it.If that was my ward, I'd probably come back."

But same token, some people move into our ward for school and HATE it.

Because it's not the culture they grew up in, or it's not a culture they feel they fit into.

On a microcosm.

You run into SOME of that here.

With people running face first into each other personality or culture wise.

You run into more of it if you go to a whole bunch of different LDS sites (different cultures in different forums).

That's one of the great things about the Internet.

If you don't fit in, you can self select yourself right OUT of a group, and into another one.

Without having to box up your stuff, hire movers, schlep across the country, and spend thousands.

So in THEORY, no matter what you're like, there's an LDS group of people similar to you.

Just like there's a Catholic group, a Jewish group, a music group, a parenting group, etc.

The birds of a feather, thing.

There are limitations on this theory, of course.

It predisposes the Gospel being at its foundation.

Just like if you're in a choral, it predisposes being able to sing (or wanting to be able to sing), or a book club it predisposes reading.

So while the short answer is "Yup, the culture isn't for everyone", the longer answer is that in my observation, there's a culture for just about every personality type, if you happen to be lucky enough to live near others like you.

Q

[mactechnm]

To set the record straight, yes I do have social problems, diagnosed and all, my introverted nature came later. I can enjoy social situations in certain places.

Some people, yes are just shy, I actually have issues.

I just got my "first strike" for "inappropriate" posting on a thread the moderators just closed down, so I will tread lightly and respectfully. I also have social/mental problems which are hereditary, and I take medication which does help.

Now... I hope this doesn't earn me a 2nd strike, but I respectfully think that the Church could be better equipped to deal with and help those with unique needs. My son is what society now calls "Special Needs" and my ward really doesn't know what to do with him. Almost as if they are afraid they'll catch a disease from him, which they can't (Birth defects/slight mental challenges). That said, I have had a couple people befriend our family, but I don't feel "At Home" in my ward, and I really want to. 

[skippy740]

That's hard, and I can empathize.  I have A.D.D. and I take medication for it.  I know my symptoms, and I think I can recognize them in others.  

 

While I feel "at home" in my ward... I also feel pretty broken because I am divorced and my kids live with my ex-wife in the next county over.  I really do like my ward, and my calling in it (cub scouts)... but I wish I felt "complete" with my family attending with me.

 

With children with "special needs"... I once had a boy in my cub scout den.  He was so shy and sometimes just curled up into a ball (I think that's a symptom of autism, if I remember correctly).  His shyness made me wonder how "high functioning" he was.  I just wasn't sure.  I saw that he wore a hearing aid of some kind, so I knew he had special needs of one kind or another.  It was just hard to get him to open up and participate at times.  As his leaders, we wanted him to have fun and be sure that he is learning.  It was hard for us.  Strangely enough, we discovered that he just LOVED being outside... and was a little 'daredevil' in his own way!  (I thought he could break himself with some of the stuff he liked doing!)  He did advance and progress to earn his Webelos rank and Arrow of Light award.  

 

I also attended a Court of Honor some time ago.  This other ward had a boy scout who was blind.  Yet he earned his ARCHERY merit badge!  How can a blind person earn a merit badge in archery?  With electronic censors like a "stud finder" to help you to aim!  I was amazed, and he seemed to be a great kid.  If the leaders can figure it out, a way can be found.

 

With my calling as a den leader and cub master, when I notice certain behavior tendencies, I just make it a point to ask the parents about it - what I notice, and ask their advice/opinion on how I can help best.  Sometimes they have ideas, and sometimes they don't.  At least they know that I'm paying individual attention to these boys.

 

I hope your son's teachers have asked you for help in learning how to relate and teach your son.  At least that would show that they want to help in the best way they can.

[pam]

I just got my "first strike" for "inappropriate" posting on a thread the moderators just closed down, so I will tread lightly and respectfully. I also have social/mental problems which are hereditary, and I take medication which does help.

Now... I hope this doesn't earn me a 2nd strike, but I respectfully think that the Church could be better equipped to deal with and help those with unique needs. My son is what society now calls "Special Needs" and my ward really doesn't know what to do with him. Almost as if they are afraid they'll catch a disease from him, which they can't (Birth defects/slight mental challenges). That said, I have had a couple people befriend our family, but I don't feel "At Home" in my ward, and I really want to. 

 

I think part of the problem is that most of us don't understand the different disabilities/needs that some have.   This is where ignorance comes into play.  When I taught Primary I had a young man with Down Syndrome.  Loved that kid.  I really did.  But I wasn't prepared in how to react to some of the things that he did.  I finally sat down and talked with his mom in how to handle some of those things.