Just a rant....

[bytor2112]

I had a massive heart attack back in June and spent FOUR days in the hospital.....FOUR. (I later had open heart surgery in August, but that's not part of the rant ....yet)

 

So, FOUR days in the hospital??? $131,000.....ONE HUNDRED THIRTY ONE THOUSAND DOLLARS!!! That doesn't include the Dr's fees.....

 

I have insurance and my share is very small....but seriously...$131,000???????

 

They did save my life....but eek gad!!

 

I haven't looked at the bills yet for the open heart surgery and 6 day stay at the hospital....but I am guessing that the whole nut is around $400k!!!!

 

While I am thankful for the excellent care and to still be fogging the mirror.....the cost seems obnoxiously high.

 

Just saying....

Edited November 15, 2014 by bytor2112

[2ndRateMind]

Congratulations on your recovery. Hope you just get better and better.

 

Best wishes, 2RM.

[Just_A_Guy]

I haven't looked at the bills yet for the open heart surgery and 6 day stay at the hospital....but I am guessing that the whole nut is around $400k!!!!

 

 

Look at the bright side . . . another heart attack like that, plus a couple of rounding errors, and you'll be a million dollar man!

Edited November 15, 2014 by Just_A_Guy

[pam]

And hope you don't have a $1M LTM on your health insurance policy.

[JimmiGerman]

And hope you don't have a $1M LTM on your health insurance policy.

 

That's why you need ObamaCare in the US.

[Just_A_Guy]

That's why you need ObamaCare in the US.

 

Or at least an option to walk away from medical debts that one had no hope of paying.  We could call it . . . bankruptcy.  :)

[bytor2112]

That's why you need ObamaCare in the US.

 

You obviously know very little about the tax known as Obama Care....

[Iggy]

A year ago in Oct I was in for 5 days. No surgery though. My insurance pays all but my $150.00 co-pay - -  but they won't pay if they aren't billed correctly!

 

I had a severe and rare allergic reaction to two high blood pressure meds that led to acute pancreatitis. In the five days I was there, I had 7 blow outs of the IV. My veins are crap! The last one was in my left wrist- they had to brace my wrist and hand so there was no movement. 

 

A week later, exactly, I was back in the ER - yet another severe reaction to yet another HB pill. This time I couldn't breath. I had only taken 1/2 the dose for two days, and none on the third because it made me really dizzy combined with diarrhea. Then I tried to walk to the bathroom (30 feet from my living room) and I ended up on the floor gasping for air.

 

My ER visit, cost us $175.00. That was ALL billed correctly except for the ambulance. They billed the insurance carrier directly rather than through the hospital. Took three phone calls to correct that.

 

The hospital stay however was more difficult to correct. The radiologist refused to bill through the hospital, and his payment was denied, repeatedly. After nearly 8 months I went to the hospital billing office in person and had a sit down with the hospital and the radiologists employee who was doing the paper work. The hospital told him the codes to use, my insurance advocate explained over the phone - in detail - how to code the billing and even emailed the directions AND the proper address to send it to. When he did lit WRONG again, the insurance called the Dr and explained that they would only accept the correct billing and that if it was not done correctly within a one week time frame, then he would NEVER get paid. 

 

He finally billed it correctly - but the hospital is still sending me bills saying I owe that amount (nearly $3,000.00 now with late charges and interest added on). I sent the billings to my insurance advocate and asked them to send a letter to the hospital. 

 

A month ago I went to the hospital to see if the billing and charges have been cleared up. It has. My grand total came to a little over $35,000.00. I really was expecting it to cost a lot more. Our out of pocket cost - $325.00. Love our insurance (Cigna)

 

Bytor, so glad that you are on the mend. We have a sister in our Branch who just underwent quadruple bypass as well as a Brother who did so a month ago. The sister's was a total surprise. She is Type 1 diabetic and we all considered her the healthiest one in the branch, as she is so health & diet conscious. The brother has had lots of medical problems, so his bypass was expected. 

[JimmiGerman]

You obviously know very little about the tax known as Obama Care....

 

 

Maybe. But I know a bit more about history: it was Friedrich der Große, King of Prussia, and it was in the battle of Kolin, when he called to his soldiers in a fury:  

 

„Ihr verfluchten Racker, wollt ihr denn ewig leben?“  (You  dogs, you want to live forever?)

 

You certainly mean this would be the right credo for the Obama Care?

Edited November 16, 2014 by JimmiGerman

[JimmiGerman]

Look at the bright side . . . another heart attack like that, plus a couple of rounding errors, and you'll be a million dollar man!

 

Maybe a million dollar man singing with the angels.

 

Edited November 16, 2014 by JimmiGerman

[PolarVortex]

Calm down... I think many medical bills are rubbery and phony. 

 

I ran into a metal fence post on my bike as a kid and broke my nose.  The bridge of my nose got so wide that I couldn't even wear glasses... they rode up so high that my eyebrows were in the middle of the lenses and looked really weird.

 

As soon as I got out of college and paid off my debts, I saved up for a nose job.  The surgeon normally did bust enlargements, but I had heard he was very good and he agreed to take a crack at my nose.  But because it was totally cosmetic I had to pay everything myself.  I think it was $2000 in 1989, which would be about $3800 in 2014 dollars.

 

Anyway, after the surgery (which was a total success) the hospital messed up my paperwork and sent me a bill under the assumption that my insurance would pay it.  It was around $5000 and contained all kinds of scandalous itemizations.  I clearly recall they charged me $12 for each aspirin pill they gave me.

 

The next day I happened to bump into my nose surgeon at Wendy's, and I asked him what I should do.  He told me to bring the bill to the hospital with a copy of my cancelled check and to tell them it was a total self-pay surgery.  I got all my documents and paperwork together and girded myself for battle (I felt like the Armor of God from Ephesians 6) and marched into the hospital... I had barely got the words "self pay" out of my mouth and the administrator snatched my bill from my hands, rolled his eyes, reached into his desk, took out the biggest rubber stamp I have ever seen in my life, and stamped "Paid in Full" on my bill. 

 

I also had a friend who worked in the collections department of a hospital.  His job was to call people at night and demand payment for hospital bills that they had not paid.  I was utterly astonished at my friend's power.  He would wheedle and haggle and nag and negotiate and could chop mountain-sized chunks out of a patient's bill if the patient agreed to pay something.  (If a hospital ever calls you nagging about a bill, always start the conversation with "Gee, I maybe can pay 10%, will 10% work for you?")

 

And finally, about 10 years ago I was bitten by a cat and had a monster allergic reaction to something in the cat's saliva and was in the hospital for a week.  On my last day they told me at breakfast that I'd be discharged right away, so I dressed and packed... and then waited 4 hours for them to finish the paperwork.  I was discharged at around 12:10pm.  Later a nurse friend of mine told me the hospital wanted to keep me past noon so they could charge my insurance company for another day.

 

I trust the U.S. medical system about as far as I can throw a grand piano.

[jerome1232]

I trust the U.S. medical system about as far as I can throw a grand piano.

I would love to see the youtube video of a literal demonstration of how far you trust the USA medical system. Just to make sure I have the right idea in my head.

[PolarVortex]

I have to confess, that expression is not original to me.  I remember it from high school, when some U.S. politician (Henry "Scoop" Jackson, perhaps) claimed he trusted the Soviet Union about as far as he could throw a grand piano. 

 

Maybe I shouldn't be so hard on the U.S. medical system.  Let's change it to a spinet instead.

[Macattack]

A big reason why health care is so expensive is that the average doctor has to pay around 400,000 a year in student loan payments and insurance. In some cases hospitals pay their malpractice insurance and then pass the cost on to the patient. As an asid the reason aspirin is so expensive in hospitals is partly because of liability concerns they have to have a nurse administer any medications, including aspirin.

[yjacket]

Well you medical bills are really broken down three ways.  

1) What the hospital or Dr. "bills" the insurance.

2) What the insurance actually negotiates the rates to and then pays the provider.

3) What you actually pay.

 

The 1st is really more of a wish price.  I've seen providers bill the insurance for 20k+ and the real amount is 3-5k.  Several people have mentioned reasons why the 1st is so high . . . but the real reason is lack of price transparency and insurance.

Studies have been done showing that prices vary wildly for the same medical procedure in the same city but different hospitals and even the same hospital but different insurance plans.

 

The actual consumer has absolutely 0 idea prior to service how much it will actually cost.  Most people think, I've got insurance so just go to the doctor without even considering if the place they are going is worth the cost.  In no other industry do you actually have service done without knowing ahead of time how much it will cost, only in the medical industry.  This is why I actually like HSA high-deductible plans . . . generally much cheaper it is actual insurance (i.e. unexpected high dollar cost events rather than normal medical), and it forces people to actually shop around since until you hit the deductible you pay for it out of pocket.

[MrShorty]

Sometime I'm not sure how the medical/insurance industry pricing works, either. I recall a series of lab tests from several months ago. The lab submitted a total of about $1000 for all of the tests, the insurance companies "allowed" amounts added up to about $100 -- 10% of the billed amount. Somehow, it seems that what the lab thinks these should cost is either hyperinflated over the "true" cost of these services, or the insurance company seriously undervalues the costs. It just doesn't make any sense, to me.

[JimmiGerman]

  I got all my documents and paperwork together and girded myself for battle (I felt like the Armor of God from Ephesians 6) and marched into the hospital... I had barely got the words "self pay" out of my mouth and the administrator snatched my bill from my hands, rolled his eyes, reached into his desk, took out the biggest rubber stamp I have ever seen in my life, and stamped "Paid in Full" on my bill. 

 

So what you want? As long as you know how the system works, and you know the magic word that makes that big rubber stamp jumping out of the desk immediately,  it's all right. Things really seem to be easy in America... and you really think big in uncountable ways, and incredibly big medical bills and rubber stamps give another proof of that. 

[JimmiGerman]

A big reason why health care is so expensive is that the average doctor has to pay around 400,000 a year in student loan payments and insurance. In some cases hospitals pay their malpractice insurance and then pass the cost on to the patient. As an asid the reason aspirin is so expensive in hospitals is partly because of liability concerns they have to have a nurse administer any medications, including aspirin.

 

I can hardly believe that one gets aspirin in an American hospital (perhaps in developing countries). Though it's an effective substance against pains and inflammations,  it can lead to bleedings and would force up the risk during or after operations to an incalculable way. Aspirin in a hospital? No way.

[2ndRateMind]

I know you guys spit every time you hear the phrase 'public health care', but illness hit me when I least expected it, in a way I least expected it. 3 hospital stays of around 3 weeks, medication for life, cost to me at point of need? zilch. nada. nothing. I may have paid out in taxes over the years I was employed, but the peace of mind and quality of care it bought was absolutely worth it. And the idea that I might have overpaid, and bought someone else's peace of mind, as well? That's good, too.

 

Best wishes, 2RM.

Edited November 16, 2014 by 2ndRateMind

[Mahone]

The World Heath Organisation produced a report back in 2000 that rated the quality of health care in each country and placed them into ranking order from highest to lowest. The UK was placed at 18, higher than the USA's 37.

That said, the WHO no longer do the report, because a lot of people complained that the report was unfair and they decided it was actually far too complex to fairly create a report like this.

I lived in the UK for the first 28 years of my life. I know public health care - I've lived with it for a long time, and I trust it immensely. Most people living in the UK would fight to keep it.

But now I live in the USA, where a lot of people would fight to keep public health care away. I can't help but think in both cases, many of those people just want what they are used to and know works, being scared of change in case it goes wrong.

However once I've lived here for an equally substantial period of time and therefore personally will have experienced both, I'll feel I'm actually able to give a valid opinion.

[Just_A_Guy]

Speaking anecdotally:  I just got health coverage through through my current employer this month after not having had any health insurance since 2004 (I am now 34 years old, for what that's worth).  Assuming that my insurance would have cost $100/month, that's $12,000 that I haven't paid in premiums.  During that same time period I might have paid $5K for two or three health issues that cropped up.  As far as I can see it, I'm $7K ahead of the game. 

 

That doesn't make a lot of difference to a health insurer or national health service, where one surgery could easily blow through that and more (a health insurer would have to enroll me and fifty-six other people with identical health histories, and keep us on the rolls for ten years, just to get back into the black after paying for Bytor's heart attack; for example).  But it makes a BIG difference to me--$7K pretty near covered the down payment for our house. 

 

If a private sector group runs the odds and thinks it can turn a profit by limiting its membership and managing costs, and invites me to join the insurance pool--sure, if the numbers look good for me, I'll join (as, in fact, I have recently done).  But I'm not hot on being compelled to join such a pool.  Nor do I trust the US federal government to perform reliable calculations in creating such a system.   (In 1935, for example, it was estimated that Social Security costs would stabilize by 1980--which of course didn't happen.  And in 1966, projected costs for Medicare for 1990 were $12 billion; as it turned out, they topped $107 billion.)

 

I suppose the bottom line is that in a compulsory redistribution scheme, the people who are getting more than they put into it can always be counted on to defend the status quo and the ones putting more into it than they get back can always be counted on to want it changed.  That's hardly surprising.  :)

Edited November 16, 2014 by Just_A_Guy

[JimmiGerman]

 

Maybe a million dollar man singing with the angels.

 

 

 

Sorry, I forgot: maybe a million Dollar man singing with the angels "God bless America".

[yjacket]

The World Heath Organisation produced a report back in 2000 that rated the quality of health care in each country and placed them into ranking order from highest to lowest. The UK was placed at 18, higher than the USA's 37.

That said, the WHO no longer do the report, because a lot of people complained that the report was unfair and they decided it was actually far too complex to fairly create a report like this.

I lived in the UK for the first 28 years of my life. I know public health care - I've lived with it for a long time, and I trust it immensely. Most people living in the UK would fight to keep it.

But now I live in the USA, where a lot of people would fight to keep public health care away. I can't help but think in both cases, many of those people just want what they are used to and know works, being scared of change in case it goes wrong.

However once I've lived here for an equally substantial period of time and therefore personally will have experienced both, I'll feel I'm actually able to give a valid opinion.

 

Impossible to compare UK to USA health insurance.  UK has a population of 64 million, US 315 million.  UK has 1/5 the population.  

 

Health care isn't just about the point of service and the majority of people thinking they are getting free access to medical care.  It's about all the back-end networks that make the front end necessary.  The US leads the world in health care innovations, Public sector health care with no real profit motive (except for government graft) will stifle that innovation.

[yjacket]

Speaking anecdotally:  I just got health coverage through through my current employer this month after not having had any health insurance since 2004 (I am now 34 years old, for what that's worth).  Assuming that my insurance would have cost $100/month, that's $12,000 that I haven't paid in premiums.  During that same time period I might have paid $5K for two or three health issues that cropped up.  As far as I can see it, I'm $7K ahead of the game. 

 

Yeap, if you are young and single, almost 0 reason for health insurance-except for catastrophic.  I will say calling it health coverage is more appropriate.  Health insurance is a misnomer . . . insurance measures risks for each situation (i.e. everybody's car/house insurance is different dependent on the particulars), true health insurance would be the same and it would be insurance (i.e. unexpected long-tail events, like a major accident, cancer, etc.).

[Guest]

I'm reading a book written by a British author and set in London about a woman who had an accident and was in a coma for 5 days waking up with amnesia.

 

She noticed that she is in a nice room in the hospital and asked the nurse about it and the nurse said you're in the private wing of the hospital... she was alarmed because what she remembers is that she couldn't afford private insurance so she's afraid that the hospital made a mistake and put her in a private room instead of the "crappy NHS service rooms" and that now she owes the hospital loads of money...

 

My impression of the story is that the Brits put up with NHS but the minute they get extra cash, they're jettisoning NHS and getting their own private coverage... which is hilarious because... before Obamacare, there were more people with private insurance in the US than there are Brits in all of the UK.

Edited November 17, 2014 by anatess