Church's Stance on Disfellowship and Excommunciation

[omegaseamaster75]

Your temple blessings are removed if you are an endowed excommunicated member.

 

Members Who Were Previously Endowed. From the time of their baptism and confirmation until their blessings are restored (see 6.15), these members may participate in any Church activity that is permissible for an unendowed member who does not hold the priesthood. However, they may not wear temple garments, receive a temple recommend, or participate in vicarious baptisms for the dead until their blessings are restored.

 

 

6.15 Restoration of Blessings

Endowed persons who were excommunicated and later readmitted by baptism and confirmation can receive their priesthood and temple blessings only through the ordinance of restoration of blessings. Such persons are not ordained to priesthood offices or endowed again, since all priesthood and temple blessings held at the time of excommunication are restored through the ordinance. Brethren are restored to their former priesthood office, except the office of seventy, bishop, or patriarch.

[The Folk Prophet]

Your temple blessings are removed if you are an endowed excommunicated member.

 

Members Who Were Previously Endowed. From the time of their baptism and confirmation until their blessings are restored (see 6.15), these members may participate in any Church activity that is permissible for an unendowed member who does not hold the priesthood. However, they may not wear temple garments, receive a temple recommend, or participate in vicarious baptisms for the dead until their blessings are restored.

 

 

6.15 Restoration of Blessings

Endowed persons who were excommunicated and later readmitted by baptism and confirmation can receive their priesthood and temple blessings only through the ordinance of restoration of blessings. Such persons are not ordained to priesthood offices or endowed again, since all priesthood and temple blessings held at the time of excommunication are restored through the ordinance. Brethren are restored to their former priesthood office, except the office of seventy, bishop, or patriarch.

 

No one's really questioning this. The side of it we're dealing with is the obligation to obey all of the commandments once excommunicated.

[JayGlad]

No, an excommunicated person is no longer under covenant. That's what "excommunicated" means.

 

A covenant is a special relationship with Jesus Christ that a person enters into. It is a two-way contract. The Lord promises "A" if we promise "B". The terms are set by the Lord for the promised reward, i.e., exaltation. By holding membership in the kingdom of God on earth (His Church), we are in a covenant relationship with God. When a covenant person (member) fulfills that covenant which he is under, the result is blessings during life and exaltation in the next life. 

 

A broken covenant is the same as a willful breach of contract. The contract (covenant) is null and void on both parties sides. By breaking this covenant relationship, that person forfeits all attached blessings. That excommunicated person no longer a  member of the covenant people. By the process of excommunication the guilty party is removed from the covenant--his name is no longer on the records of the Church. He is no longer a member. He is no longer under covenant.

 

The result of covenant breaking is just that, a result--a consequence of willful action(s), not a "punishment" per se. To punish is to "to inflict a penalty for the commission of (an offense) in retribution or retaliation." If I stick my hand in the fire, I get burned--a result or consequence of my willful action. If I jump off the Empire State Building, I splatter on the sidewalk--a result or consequence of my willful action. Neither are a punishment. Covenant making and covenant breaking is an eternal law, not much different than the law of gravity. When you live by the law (aerodynamics) you're blessed (stay aloft). When you break the law (try to fly on your own accord) you suffer the consequences (splatter on the ground). Such is the law of covenant making.

 

So the person who breaks his covenants will suffer the consequences of his willful actions automatically (just like jumping off the building). There will be no further "punishment" for the breach, the results were put into place the instant the covenant was broken. Remember, those who live a celestial law will be resurrected to a celestial glory. Those live a terrestrial law will be resurrected to a terrestrial glory. Those who live a telestial law will be resurrected to a telestial glory. Nothing more, nothing less. King David is a perfect example.

[omegaseamaster75]

No one's really questioning this. The side of it we're dealing with is the obligation to obey all of the commandments once excommunicated.

Only if you want to come back I suppose....then yes of course we require this of all new members.

 

Now do you bring extra condemnation on yourself if you are excommunicated and then disregard the WOW and LOC etc with no intention of ever returning to church........I want to say not likely. A covenant no longer exists. The excommunicated person has broken his side thereby nullifying any previous commitment

[Vort]

Now do you bring extra condemnation on yourself if you are excommunicated and then disregard the WOW and LOC etc with no intention of ever returning to church........I want to say not likely.

I can't believe this.

 

What do you think commandments are? Do you think they're just rules to a game that you might or might not want to play? Anyone who quits the game doesn't have to worry about the rules any more?

 

Commandments are guideposts to living a happy life, to avoiding spiritual harm. If you disregard commandments, or even "just" divine Good Advice -- well, OF COURSE you are bringing "extra condemnation" on yourself! How could you not be?

 

You think smoking cigarettes doesn't carry its own built-in condemnation? You think homosex or adultery is okay and doesn't cause a smidgen of physical, mental, emotional, or spiritual harm unless you're baptized?

 

I sometimes think that many of my fellow Saints have a completely different understanding from myself about what the word of God even means.

[omegaseamaster75]

I can't believe this.

 

What do you think commandments are? Do you think they're just rules to a game that you might or might not want to play? Anyone who quits the game doesn't have to worry about the rules any more?

 

Commandments are guideposts to living a happy life, to avoiding spiritual harm. If you disregard commandments, or even "just" divine Good Advice -- well, OF COURSE you are bringing "extra condemnation" on yourself! How could you not be?

 

You think smoking cigarettes doesn't carry its own built-in condemnation? You think homosex or adultery is okay and doesn't cause a smidgen of physical, mental, emotional, or spiritual harm unless you're baptized?

 

I sometimes think that many of my fellow Saints have a completely different understanding from myself about what the word of God even means.

I think you may have misunderstood, or I didn't express myself well. All of the things you have outlined bring condemnation on us. More so as members of the church because we know better. 

 

I suspect that if I indulge in some of the things mentioned I will be judged more harshly than a non member because I have made commitments and covenants that the non member has not. A non member will not be judged by the same measuring stick that you or I will be. Or do you disagree?

 

Isn't condemnation for being kicked out of the church bad enough? the covenant has been broken, so will the excommunicated member be judged more harshly if he engages in other sinful behavior? I don't know......

[estradling75]

Seems to me that breaking of a covenant is an additional sin.

 

For example breaking the Law of Chasity is a grievous sin.  Breaking the Law of Chasity while under covenant to Live the Law of Chasity compounds it and makes it even worse.

 

Excommunication does not change the seriousness of the breaking the Law of Chasity.  It does however remove the compounding factor of Covenant breaking. (for future events I would not venture to assume it erases the prior offence)

[Just_A_Guy]

Your temple blessings are removed if you are an endowed excommunicated member.

 

Members Who Were Previously Endowed. From the time of their baptism and confirmation until their blessings are restored (see 6.15), these members may participate in any Church activity that is permissible for an unendowed member who does not hold the priesthood. However, they may not wear temple garments, receive a temple recommend, or participate in vicarious baptisms for the dead until their blessings are restored.

 

 

6.15 Restoration of Blessings

Endowed persons who were excommunicated and later readmitted by baptism and confirmation can receive their priesthood and temple blessings only through the ordinance of restoration of blessings. Such persons are not ordained to priesthood offices or endowed again, since all priesthood and temple blessings held at the time of excommunication are restored through the ordinance. Brethren are restored to their former priesthood office, except the office of seventy, bishop, or patriarch.

 

I have always figured that temple blessings are actually lost when one arrives at the spiritual state that results in the excommunication, whether the excommunication thereafter actually occurs or not.  The only thing one loses through the excommunication itself, is the administrative or outward manifestations of those blessings.

 

Where the Spirit and covenants are concerned, I rather think that formal Church discipline merely ratifies administratively what the Lord has already done.

Edited March 16, 2015 by Just_A_Guy

[The Folk Prophet]

I suspect that if I indulge in some of the things mentioned I will be judged more harshly than a non member because I have made commitments and covenants that the non member has not. A non member will not be judged by the same measuring stick that you or I will be. Or do you disagree?

 

I agree with estradling75. There is an added component of sin to covenant breaking, but it is irrelevant to the other sins. It is compounded on top of them.

 

As to the judged more harshly, I would reiterate: our accountability is related to our knowledge. Therefore, one who knows better, knows better, and the culpability is the same. The one who breaks a covenant is accountable for breaking said covenant, yes. The one who never entered into the covenant cannot be held accountable for not breaking it. But they can, and will, be held accountable for not entering into the covenant in the first place, which a covenant breaker will not be held accountable for, having entered into said covenant.

 

Is the covenant breaker more accountable than the covenant decliner? That's up to God. But either way, knowledge leads to accountability.

[The Folk Prophet]

I have always figured that temple blessings are actually lost when one arrives at the spiritual state that results in the excommunication, whether the excommunication thereafter actually occurs or not.  The only thing one loses through the excommunication itself, is the administrative or outward manifestations of those blessings.

 

Where the Spirit and covenants are concerned, I rather think that formal Church discipline merely ratifies administratively what the Lord has already done.

 

I think there is one interesting consideration in this, however. As I've mentioned, excommunication removes the right to the Gift of the Holy Ghost. I don't claim to fully understand the difference between these states, but it does strike me that the repenting soul who has the Gift of the Holy Ghost has something that the repenting soul who does not is lacking. This is more than administrative, if my understanding is accurate.

 

I believe that any way you cut it, having your covenants removed is a bad, bad thing, above and beyond administrative measures. Covenants offer blessings and promises that we have a right to claim through obedience. Loss of those covenants, it seems, is a loss of those promises from the Lord for said obedience. Until we can once more climb to the point where we can lay claim to those promises, it seems to me that our positive behavior will yield lesser things.

 

The easiest example of this is the Gift of the Holy Ghost. A person who is excommunicated, although desiring to take the name of Christ upon themselves, always remembering him, and in the process of keeping the commandments, still will not have the Spirit to be with them. The Spirit may visit briefly, but the right to its constant companionship is null, despite positive, righteous behavior.

Edited March 16, 2015 by The Folk Prophet

[TheNonWord]

Me and my wife were not excommunicated for telling the truth to our bishop.

[JayGlad]

Me and my wife were not excommunicated for telling the truth to our bishop.

Not that we need to know (we don't!), but it depends upon what the "truth" was. There are occasions where telling the truth, because of the nature of the sin, requires excommunication. For example, murder, the deliberate and unjustified taking of human life, is one example that comes to mind.

[Kayvex]

I love to let a forum fester for a little, I come back with a lot of interesting stuff to read!

 

Capitalist_Oinker, thank you

 

What you posted is really what I needed to hear, witness. I'm very evidence based and based on your evidence, I feel more confident about the statements and facts given on this topic. One could say, my testimony is strengthened on the matter.

 

And thank you all for your comments and input. It's very fascinating to see the different opinions that all share a very similiar base in the Lord's word. There are so many details we will not have completely defined for us for a long time.... But we still try to learn don't we?