Youtube Apologetics

[cdowis]

CRITIC

The prophecy actually says that war shall be poured out upon all nations, starting in South Carolina. That did not happen.

RESPONSE

And that is exactly what happened, , beginning with the war that started in South Carolina. 

The technology and tactics developed in the Civil War made a world war possible == using railroads for logistics and troop movement, air war (beginning with observation balloons), trench warfare, iron sided warships, submarines, Sherman's march (civilians were directly attacked)

The civil war was the beginning of a new era in warfare.  Warfare is much more destructive than it's ever been, and, it's more global than it's ever been.  Though certain parts of the world have seen very little peace ever over the thousands of years that people have been living in them, now even small wars among nations or rival groups have a global impact. That wasn't true before the Civil War

This was a prophecy directly dictated to a scribe.  The punctuation itself was added by the scribe. By altering the punctuation just slightly - adding a period - the subsequent wars are legitimately read as the first world war and the second world war in which the British did indeed seek help from other countries.

Edited September 23, 2017 by cdowis

[cdowis]

" Here you are actually admitting that you are unwilling to accept any theory that doesn't fit your existing model."

You are correct. But we are all in good company.

Evolutionists have their "gap of the gods" -- phenomena which are inexplicable under evolution. A scientist will consider the imponderable contradictions of quantum mechanics with reality, such as the "spooky interaction at a distance", without wincing. Because they have tested it to their satisfaction.

I think I can safely say that nobody understands quantum mechanics. ~Richard Feynman

"Quantum mechanics....seems to violate some fundamental principles of classical physics, principles that eventually have become a part of western common sense since the rise of the modern worldview in the Renaissance." -- Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy

I have learned though my personal experience that Joseph Smith was called by the Lord as a prophet. I do not know all things, but of this, I have a certain knowledge. I have tested it to my satisfaction.

[cdowis]

Three Witness statements

https://youtu.be/AvA_GDgk6xg?t=4m25s

 

[cdowis]

DAN VOGEL

I have no problem with his ability to have footnotes, but I do have a problem on his discounting extant evidence. Formulating alternative, naturalistic explanations that are devoid of evidence (and which contravene extant evidence).

Read his account of the eight witnesses. He basically ignores their statement, draws from the visionary experience of the Three Witnesses. He then creates an imaginary scenario, based on pure speculation, of what happened with NO documentation to support his story.

Look it up for yourself.

Yes, he documented sources, but he fails to examine or question the reliability of those sources if they agree with agenda. This is a basic duty of a professional historian, source control.

[cdowis]

A conversation

Was the first vision a vision of an angel, angels, Jesus, or God the Father and Jesus? He was visited by God the Father and Jesus Christ. "Angel" is a generic term for a heavenly being, and there is an indications that he also saw angels in the vision. But that is not clear, since it was mentioned in only one account.

Would you forget that you saw God and Jesus? He did not "forget". Each account is specific to the time and circumstances of the narrative -- such as the audience, and the purpose for relating his story. These were not designed to be published to a general audience until he gathered all the details for general publication. The point is that there is only one contradiction among all the accounts == whether he thought all the churches were wrong. If Joseph saw God and Jesus as two separate personages, why does the Book of Mormon fail to realize this? It teaches of a modalistic God. No, it does not. It indicates that those who assert this simply do not fully understand Mormon doctrine. Why did he join the Methodist church in 1828? He didn't. https://www.fairmormon.org/answers/Joseph_Smith's_First_Vision/Joseph_Smith_joined_other_churches#Question:_Did_Joseph_Smith_join_the_Methodist.2C_Presbyterian.2C_or_Baptist_churches_between_1820_and_1830_despite_the_claim_made_in_his_1838_history_that_he_was_forbidden_by_Deity_from_joining_any_denomination.3F

"the Son is the Father, and the Father is the Son,"
I am a father, I am a son, I am a grandfather, I am an uncle and a nephew. I am a brother. Christ has many titles, and He is the Father of all those who follow Him, while Eloheim is the Father of every person regardless of whether they follow Christ or not. What's more likely given the evidence? My evidence comes from reading the Book of Mormon and receiving a witness from God that it is His word. Not "just a feeling" but direct, personal revelation. You have to decide for yourself what you will accept as evidence.

Edited December 3, 2017 by cdowis

[cdowis]

CRITIC

The Book of Mormon is an artifact of the 19th century == parallels his own century

RESPONSE

I see your point.  It is called parallelism, an argument against the authenticity of the BOM.  But. my friend, you have reached the wrong conclusion.  Parallelism proves that this is a 20th century production.  We have a band of robbers which has a standing army, and they hide in caves in the mountains.  This is OBVIOUSLY a reference to the Taliban.

We have blood oaths, straight out of the mobsters of the casa nostra, among other things bribing judges for a favorable judgement == sounds like the corruption found in Chicago or New York.

Burning heretics comes from  the play and TV production of "Joan of Arc"

We can detect the popularity of TV preachers, references to Darwinism == survival of the fittest.

The continual tension and hostility between the Lamanites and Nephites, the two great powers == certainly a reference to the Cold War.

The refusal of the kingmen to participate in defending and fighting the bad guys == the Quakers and other conscience objectors during WW2.

Where else will you find such a confluence of such events?  Parallelism tells us that the Book of Mormon was a pious fraud written in the 20th century.  
How can you deny the obvious ==>> It all fits!!

[cdowis]

CRITIC

Racism

RESPONSE
 

This is what we actually believe

: "For a time in the Church there was a restriction on the priesthood for male members of African descent. It is not known precisely why, how, or when this restriction began in the Church but what is clear is that it ended decades ago. *Some have attempted to explain the reason for this restriction but these attempts should be viewed as speculation and opinion, not doctrine* The Church is not bound by speculation or opinions given with limited understanding. *We condemn racism, including any and all past racism by individuals both inside and outside the Church* http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/racial-remarks-in-washington-post-article

Growth in Africa
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865638671/Major-LDS-growth-in-Africa-unaffected-by-priesthood-restriction-Elder-Sitati-says.html
Also https://youtu.be/xYG53StGhmE http://www.ldsliving.com/Church-Announces-Temple-Groundbreakings-in-Africa-and-South-America/s/80772?utm_source=ldsliving&utm_medium=email

A contribution to Black History and Ancestry
http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/historic-freedmen-records-released

Elder Dube, a General Authority in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, speaking in the world-wide General Conference
https://youtu.be/Ndt159Pa3J4

Humanitarian efforts in Africa
https://youtu.be/h3J2vLNGdWY

Edited October 14, 2017 by cdowis

[cdowis]

Regarding the Book of Mormon scripture on skin of darkness, you "FORGOT" to also quote

[8] O my brethren, I fear that unless ye [the Nephites] shall repent of your sins that *their skins [Lamanites] will be whiter than yours, when ye shall be brought with them before the throne of God* [23] For behold, thus saith the Lord: I will not show unto the wicked of my strength, to one more than the other, save it be unto those that repent of their sins, and hearken unto my words. Now therefore, I would that **ye should behold, my brethren, that it shall be better for the Lamanites than for you except ye shall repent**

Also [Christ] inviteth them all to come unto him and partake of his goodness; and *he denieth none that come unto him, black and white, bond and free, male and female* and he remembereth the heathen; and *all are alike unto God* both Jew and Gentile.

You are sooooooooo forgetful............

Edited October 15, 2017 by cdowis

[cdowis]

CRITIC
racism

While we disagree on the past statements of church leaders, the church is in opposition to racism and intolerance, and active in assisting in black culture and communities.

Apostle Opens Black Church Leadership Summit
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMTaE2FefAw&t=61s

Self Reliance Embraced by Latter-day Saints in Accra, Ghana
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6u3OnPyjSg

Church Preserves Precious Records of African Nation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSJyB9Nnrr0

Edited October 17, 2017 by cdowis

[LoudLizard]

On 7/21/2015 at 2:26 PM, cdowis said:

1. Good question, but I have never found it necessary to have an apologetic discussion with the Catholics.  They leave us alone, and we leave them alone.  Generally we share a mutual respect and understanding.  

 

So my answers are formulated for the "born again" crowd.  

 

2. "Evolution" -- For the sake of simplicity, I left out the context of his post.

Here is a link to the video  

 

I was addressing a post with this conclusion, "Believe it or not, your 185-million-greats-grandfather was – a fish. So was your 185-million-greats-grandmother. "

 

I think you would agree that this is not consistent with LDS doctrine that we evolved from a fish.

Lds doctrine states that God created animals, fish, birds and insects  etc.  It does not say by what means these animals were 'created'.  I have read that a prophet or apostle stated that evolution only happens within a species.  Not one species changing into a different species.  

Science gets some things correct and some things wrong.  I love this topic.

[cdowis]

"Millions of people armed with swords, armor, chariots, and not one teeny tiny little bit remains? Not a coin, smelter, horse, elephant, DNA, it all disappeared? "

 

1.Their swords were not made of metal after about about 300BCE. They had no deposits of iron but using meteoric iron and so the supply of iron became so scarce, they considered it as precious as gold and silver. See Mosiah 11:8 Their weapons actually had edges of obsidian: Although the Maya had projectile technology, such as the atlatl and spear, much of the actual fighting was done at close range with "thrusting, stabbing, and crushing". Weapons were crafted mostly from obsidian and chert, obsidian being the sharpest (but more brittle) wiki

2. Same thing with armor. And of course, the Pre-Columbian civilizations made armor. Both the Aztecs and Incas sandwiched cotton between layers of cloth and leather and stitched the whole thing together, creating quilted vests and body suits. This cotton armor was very dense and could be two fingers thick, and it repelled arrows and spears almost as well as a Spanish steel breastplate. Plus, cotton armor was much lighter, cooler, and more flexible, which probably erased the breastplate’s advantage in toughness. **That’s why so many conquistadors fought in native armor** https://pintsofhistory.com/2011/08/10/mesoamerican-cotton-armor-better-than-steel/

3. There is no mention of chariots nor horses used in warfare in the Book of Mormon, for the obvious reason that the typology of a rain forest, mountains and rivers made them impractical for warfare. It appears that the primary use of horses was for food rather than transportation.

4. Coins are not mentioned in the text of the Book of Mormon. This was an error in one of the chapter headings which has been corrected.

5. There are fossils of wooly mammoths in Mexico but predate the Book of Mormon.  https://phys.org/news/2016-06-mammoth-uncovered-mexico.html

Edited October 26, 2017 by cdowis

[cdowis]

"cdowis your cult, excuse me, "church " changed it's stance because of political pressure, and the threat of losing your 501c status for discrimination.
Please don't try to justify it."

You pretend this is a documented fact. Let's see your proof rather than some antiMormon myth.
YOU need to justify (prove) your assertion rather than blabbering incoherently about rumors and gossip. 

 PS I have spoken to the person who admitted starting this rumor about Jimmy Carter's threat.

Edited October 26, 2017 by cdowis

[cdowis]

"Why does God.... blah blah blah"

I have an understanding myself, but it is not for me to answer for Him to your demands.

1 Nephi 15 [7] And they said: Behold, we cannot understand the words which our father hath spoken ..........

[8] And I [Nephi] said unto them: Have ye inquired of the Lord?

[9] And they said unto me: We have not; for the Lord maketh no such thing known unto us.

[10] Behold, I said unto them:.....

[11] Do ye not remember the things which the Lord hath said? -- *If ye will not harden your hearts, and ask me in faith, believing that ye shall receive, with diligence in keeping my commandments, surely these things shall be made known unto you*

Edited November 1, 2017 by cdowis

[cdowis]

Race and Priesthood -- " the Church claims to have prophets who talk with God himself."

While the exact circumstances surrounding the restriction are unknown, it appears that it was based on scripture, viz. Abraham 26-27. There was speculation and various opinions expressed on the reason for the temporary restriction, e.g. the curse of Cain. These were expressions of personal opinions.
See http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/approaching-mormon-doctrine

Another example of a similar restriction was the statement of Christ that He was only sent to the House of Israel, and not to the Gentiles. No explanation. The restriction was later lifted with a revelation from God to Peter -- Acts chapter 10. The restriction on holding the priesthood was also lifted by inspiration and revelation from God.

See "Removing the Restriction" section https://www.lds.org/topics/race-and-the-priesthood?lang=eng

Edited November 10, 2017 by cdowis

[cdowis]

Mormons are Bible believing Christians.

 

We accept the words of Christ who taught

Matt 7 [21] Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Matt 28 [19] Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, *baptizing them* in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: [20] Teaching them to **observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you:**and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Mark 16 [16] He that believeth and *is baptized* shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

 

This is what Christ taught ==>> Your mouth cannot save you. You must be baptized to be saved.  You must keep the commandments.

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REPLY

[cdowis]

CRITIC

Joseph Smith bragging about keeping the church together better  than Christ

 

RESPONSE

 

John 14 [12] Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do;

Edited December 1, 2017 by cdowis

[Guest]

On 12/1/2017 at 2:12 PM, cdowis said:

CRITIC

Joseph Smith bragging about keeping the church together better  than Christ

RESPONSE

John 14 [12] Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do;

I like it.

Edited December 5, 2017 by Guest

[cdowis]

 "Jesus and Satan are brothers".

Both Satan and Christ existed for eternity, were spiritually begotten with spirit bodies, and Christ was then begotten in the flesh.  So they are eternal, but spiritually begotten in time.

Satan, in the Great Council , rejected the Plan of Father while Christ agreed to be the Great Sacrifice, to atone  for the sins of man.  Each of us were in this Council, and Satan convinced a third of those spirit children to follow him in his rebellion.

You, me, Christ and Satan are all spirit children of Father, brothers and sisters.  This knowledge was restored when Christ called a living prophet in our day.  This knowledge was possessed by His disciples when they asked the question, "Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?"

[Guest]

23 hours ago, cdowis said:

 "Jesus and Satan are brothers".

My response is simply:  And?

[Maureen]

I find this thread strange. It's as if @cdowis is having a conversation with himself.

M.

[mordorbund]

1 hour ago, Maureen said:

I find this thread strange. It's as if @cdowis is having a conversation with himself.

M.

It's because of his kinship with the Big Bopper

 

[cdowis]

On 12/11/2017 at 1:14 PM, Maureen said:

I find this thread strange. It's as if @cdowis is having a conversation with himself.

M.

I am using it as a very accessible  blog of apologetic responses.

[prisonchaplain]

1 hour ago, ChristIsLord said:

Jesus said 'Heaven and Earth may pass away but my Word will by no means pass away which is why you may have hard time convincing any Christian that the Church needed restoration.

 

'Anti Mormon'? Isn't that a bit hypocritical considering you believe we are 'Church of the devil? (To quote Joseph Smith)  Wouldn't make Joseph and Mormons 'anti Christian'?

While the doctrine of Great Apostasy/Restoration is a huge difference between traditional believers and LDS, I'm not sure the verse you reference fits the discussion. The Word would refer to scriptures, not the church--no?

As for the term "Anti-Mormon"--members seem to use it to refer to those who intentionally and with great bias oppose them. Those who engage in "convicted conversations," or who come asking questions and who interact with sincerity and a measure of kindness do not get labeled such. 

[Jane_Doe]

2 hours ago, ChristIsLord said:

'Anti Mormon'? Isn't that a bit hypocritical considering you believe we are 'Church of the devil? (To quote Joseph Smith)  Wouldn't make Joseph and Mormons 'anti Christian'?

LDS don't believe that you're the "Church of the Devil" at all!  No, no, you're a Christian- a follower of Christ (see Acts 11:26).  Your relationship with Christ is very real and something to be celebrated.  LDS folks too are Christians, with very real relationship with Christ to be celebrated.  Does that mean we agree on every theological point?  Of course not!  Just like Baptists disagree with Catholics and Methodists and Orthodox, etc.  

As to the term "anti": an anti person is a person who purposely misrepresents and slanders another group.  There are anti-Mormons, anti-Calvinists, anti-Communists, etc.  Such slandering and misrepresentation is not Christ's way, rather He approached all with utterly loving truthfulness.

Edited December 29, 2017 by Jane_Doe

[zil]

Welcome, @ChristIsLord!

2 hours ago, ChristIsLord said:

The Son being able to nothing save for what he see's the Father doesn't contradict Christian theology at all. So not sure how relevant.

It isn't meant to contradict Christian theology.  It is meant to contradict the idea that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints teaches "God is a man who sinned".  We do not teach that.  Specifically, we don't teach the "who sinned" part.  We do teach that God the Father is an exalted human male with a resurrected body of flesh and bone, just as the Lord Jesus Christ is an exalted human male with a resurrected body of flesh and bone.  That is the beginning and end of our teaching on the matter.  (Others may speculate, but that is personal speculation, not Church teaching.)