Stakes

[dahlia]

I've got an RS lesson in a couple of weeks about stakes. People, help me here. I've read the manual chapter, but there's just not a whole lot I can say (or ask) about stakes. I have a few items from the chapter, but have no idea how to talk for 40 minutes about stakes.

 

This strikes me as one of those topics that long time members have heard over and over again. I doubt there is anything new I can add, but maybe you guys have some ideas.

 

So, what do stakes mean to you?  What is the benefit or difference of a stake vs the diocese structure? Why should a convert (we have a few recent ones) care about stakes?

 

Thanks.

[zil]

Ask those three questions as part of your lesson and let the sisters in RS take over. :) IMO, the best lessons are those where the teacher asks good questions and lets participants discuss.

 

Unless the lesson explains diocese, I couldn't answer #2.

 

What can a stake do that a ward or branch couldn't (or couldn't do as well / easily)?

 

I think you could discuss whether the sisters feel like the stake is a blessing or aid in their lives, if so, why, and if not, what can we do to change that (I wouldn't ask why not as that might turn into a complain-fest).

[Guest]

I honestly don't know how I'd cover a whole lesson period just talking about stakes. I can't remember a lesson specific to them that I've ever had.

[zil]

It's possible those who have never had a stake calling, and/or never been married to someone who had a stake calling, and/or never had children to attend stake activities don't think much about stakes.  For example, my stake interaction seems to be limited to:

 

* Girls Camp (back in the day, as a YW)

* Stake Conference

* Temple Recommend Interviews

 

...I can't remember the last time we had a stake activity.

 

Perhaps you could ask sisters who have / had stake callings to share their experiences and testimonies of the importance of stakes.

 

Perhaps you could discuss how to explain the idea of a stake to non-members (and laugh about how Mormons have their own "stake houses").

[Vort]

A few thoughts:

 

As the family is the basic structural unit of the Church, so the stake is the basic organizational unit of the Church. Above the stake level, the Church is a maze of administrative effort. The stake level is where the rubber first meets the road.

 

I served a mission in central Italy in the early to mid '80s, when no stake existed in the entire mission. (There was a stake in Milan which covered much of northern Italy, but no other stake in all of Italy.) My mission president in effect acted as the stake president over all of central Italy, from Florence to Naples. In talking with him, I learned that the "whole program" of the Church is available only to members in stakes. Areas not covered under stakes, as central Italy at that time, defaulted to the broader, looser structure of missions, which are not really designed with members in mind. My mission president considered the missionaries to be his first priority, not the members. That is not to say he didn't love the members or care for them or sacrifice for them -- he certainly did all of those things -- but he felt that his top priority for all decisions he had to make was the well-being of the missionaries.

 

I think that most of us tend not to have lots of stake-level interaction. That becomes less true as men and women get older and start being overseen by the high priest quorum, which exists only at the stake level. By the time "lifers" get to middle age, they typically know people from around the stake and have a sort of sense for how their stake "feels". Stake conferences are a good chance to get a quick reading on this. Leadership service on the stake level is another. But despite that, I think my initial statement above is still true, that most of us don't really think in terms of stakes, but of wards and congregations. Perhaps we would do well to broaden our vision on occasion and try to think in terms of our stake, and not just our ward.

[bytebear]

Some thoughts. 

Stakes are called stakes because they are what keeps the church's tent up.  They are for stability and the more stakes we have the more stable the tent is.

 

And I LOOOOOOVE this video as it shows how the gospel truth has grown.  And the music is awesome.  The lyrics are particularly significant.

 

 

And lastly, two words:  Road Shows.

[Guest]

Like zil, I'm not familiar with the details of the diocese structure.  So I can't address that.  But here are some things that are not commonly spoken of.

 

The Church actually only has three levels (Ward/Branch, Stake, General).  You can also say the Lord provides a fourth level. :) .  Areas and regions are mainly "pass through" levels.  Directives generally do not originate or end there.  So, we need to understand the separate functions/roles of each level.

 

The ward is so sized because that is really as many people that we can get to know on a personal level.  To explain:  Studies have shown that regardless of intelligence (for the most part) people can know about 400 things in any category.  This extends to people.  We can remember 400 people in our families, 400 people at work, 400 people at church, and so forth.  You can further break this down and say 400 people in first ward, 400 in second ward, etc.  But then the time aspect begins to be a stumbling block.  Most wards try to be around 75 to 200 active people.  That's what our chapels can usually handle.  As we get to 400 or more, they usually split the ward.  And other variables will also have a play in the size of the ward.

 

So, the ward is supposed to be an intimate level of the Church.  Everyone knows everyone.  Two weaknesses exist from such a size.  The intimacy also breeds some potential for "cultish" behavior.  A small number of people can be easily led astray by a bad leader. Also, a small number of people tend not to have the physical or social strength required to really make an impact in an area.

 

Stakes are designed to operate autonomously for most day-to-day or week-to-week functions.  All the detailed activities, all area service projects are at the ward and stake levels.  The stake is the Church on a small scale.  The stake presidency and the stake high council are parallels to the first presidency and council of the twelve (point 1 in the manual).  We used to have seventies that were a stake level quorum.

 

The stake level acts as a check and balance to keep a ward from being led astray.  The wards in their combined efforts also be a check against the stake.  Also, the social and physical strength of a stake is required for proper impact and protections (This speaks to points 3 and 4 of the lesson). 

[LeSellers]

Some here will duplicate what others have said, but the whole picture is important.

A stake is the key structure of the church. Its president is the president of the high Priesthood, and even if we do not sustain them as prophets, seers and revelators, stake presidents have the same responsibilities and same spiritual resources for a stake as President Monson does for the whole church. Every organization at the general church level also exists at the state level, but some are "muted".

When, in 1948, the Communists cut Berlin off from the world, and the Western Allies started the Berlin Airlift, the branch in Berlin was also cut off from Church headquarters, the Brethren saw the need to assure that the Church would be able to function if that sort of thing ever happened again. I once had an overstated belief about it, but early after the Airlift was no longer needed, they took that branch, divided it into two very small wards, and formed a stake. A stake can exist and operate without direct and frequent interaction with headquarters for a prolonged period. The stake president can authorize conferring the Melchizedek Priesthood (because of his presidency).

The stake high council parallels the Quorum of the Twelve. Stake organization of the Relief Society, the Primary, the Young Men and Women, and so on, oversee and coordinate the activities of the ward organizations (where the action happenz), just as the general boards of the Relief Society, etc., do higher up.

Over the past few years, we have seen stakes taking their more rightful place in the structure of the Church. Stake presidents now set missionaries apart. In 1967, I was set apart by an Assistant to the Twelve in the Salt Lake Mission Home. I see this trend continuing as the Church gets larger and more and more Regional Authority Seventies are needed while these brethren have no Priesthood keys.

To understand the function of a stake is to truly understand the power of the Priesthood and the necessity of keys.

Lehi

Edited December 6, 2015 by LeSellers

[Anddenex]

Dahlia,

 

My first thought would be to read this talk provided by Harold B. Lee, "Strengthen the Stakes of Zion." As to my understanding "stakes" are symbolic of the stakes that grounded the temple firmly.

 

In reference to stakes I enjoy the application (personal) of the Olive Allegory.  Each olive tree represents a stake in Zion.  The strengthen of the stakes directly influence the branches (wards and families), which in turn directly influence their fruit (children/youth).  A stake mirrors the personal righteousness and worthiness of its members, thus the call by our prophets, "For Zion must increase in beauty, and in holiness; her borders must be enlarged; her stakes must be strengthened; yea, verily I say unto you, Zion must arise and put on her beautiful garments." (D&C 82:14) 

 

Harold B. Lee specifies, "In these revelations the Lord speaks of organized units of the Church which are designated as stakes, each of which those not of our faith may think of as a diocese."

 

The fundamental purposes of our stakes are:

1) First and foremost, a defense against the enemies of the Lord, and the need to protect the good name of the Church. A refuge from the storm, which is why we always need to be watchful of wolves in sheep clothing trying to change the Church from the bottom up. Thus the call to strengthen the stakes of Zion.

 

2) A governing body -- order!  Notice how quickly the Church can act on behalf of others due to the organization of the Church. It takes one call to a stake president who then addresses it to 10-14 bishops, who then proclaim the same.  Directions given, directions received, and directions followed lead to many good things.

 

3) Gathering of the Saints and for the gathering of the lost tribes of Israel.  Notice how the Church is calling people to strengthen their stakes, not encouraging them to run to Utah.  The foundation of stakes is set, now stay where you are and strengthen your stakes, enlarge your borders.  Modern ability of travel has allowed the Church to reach like it has never reached before.  People can create a Zion in their home stakes, or as Bruce R. McConkie specified, 

 

"The place of gathering for the Mexican Saints is in Mexico; the place of gathering for the Guatemalan Saints is in Guatemala; the place for the Brazilian Saints is in Brazil...Japanese is for the Japanese...Australia is for the Australians."

 

4) There are three main purposes to a governing priesthood body: to unify, to serve, and to teach sound doctrine. A stake fulfills these purposes.

 

5) A voice of warning

 

6) Our stakes are an archetype of the general leadership of the Church.  We have a prophet and counselors.  We have a stake president and counselors. We have 12 apostles delegated work by the prophet, and are sent forth throughout the world.  We have 12 high councilman delegated work by the stake president, and are sent forth through the stake.

 

Where does the strength of our Church come from, well according to Harold B. Lee, "By that same token, and in the language of that brilliant college student, I am convinced that the greatest of all the underlying reasons for the strength of this church is that those who keep the commandments of God are 100 percent behind the leadership of this church."

 

Further stating, "It will be clearly understood, then, that the great responsibility that the leaders and teachers in the Church have is to persuade, to teach, to direct aright, that the commandments of Almighty God will be so lived as to prevent the individual from falling into the trap of the evil one who would persuade him not to believe in God and not to follow the leadership of the Church."

 

Stakes of Zion, provide many questions which highlight the doctrines and principles of the Church.  

 

Best wishes in your teaching opportunity :)

[dahlia]

I honestly don't know how I'd cover a whole lesson period just talking about stakes. I can't remember a lesson specific to them that I've ever had.

It's Chapter 23 of the Ezra Taft Benson book.  Lucky me.

[dahlia]

The ward is so sized because that is really as many people that we can get to know on a personal level. 

 

This is similar to a point I was going to raise.  There is a concept called weak ties and strong ties. Our strong ties are people we know well. The problem is that we tend to know the same thing as the people we know well. Weak ties are more distant - friends of friends, people we only know on Facebook or LDS.net, for example. They know things we don't know, so we tend to learn more and different things from them than from our strong ties.  Stakes give us the opportunity to hear and learn from our weak ties (especially in a stake like ours, with small rural towns spread miles apart). 

 

This is all interesting (at least to me, as it is part of my academic discipline) but it ain't 40 minutes worth. 

 

Thanks, all, for your thoughts.  When I asked the questions in my initial post, it dawned on me as I was writing, that I could ask them in the lesson. Sometimes you have to see stuff in front of you to make the connection.

[Anddenex]

It's Chapter 23 of the Ezra Taft Benson book.  Lucky me.

I believe I will be teaching the same lesson :)

[Guest]

I believe I will be teaching the same lesson :)

 

Yeah, it's like the entire church is...I don't know...organized or something

[David13]

Thanks for a good thread.

I like the church history and to learn about the structure of the church.

Particular thanks to bytebear for the video on the history and growth of the stakes and the church.

I was pleased to see that the first California stake was San Bernadrino in 1852. 

Last week my home teacher mentioned that there were probably more church members in California than in Utah.  However, I think he is wrong. 

California has 778,000 members of the church and Utah probably closer to 1,500,000. 

We did agree that perhaps one half of those numbers were active, but I will say that in Utah it seems there is quite a resergence in activity in the church.

dc

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

This is a tough topic.  My advice is that this--and everything we talk about at church--should be centered in Christ.  (Pres, Kimball said, "No matter how much we speak of Him, it is never enough."  

 

With this in mind, my husband was once the Gospel Doctrine teacher.  When he taught a lesson about the "stakes of Zion", he brought in a tent...(yes, he is a bit theatrical, LOL!)  He set up the tent in the RS room, and talked about the stakes of the tent and why they are important, and how they relate to the church etc.  At the end, he reminded the class that while the stakes are important, they are all there to support the "tent of Christ" and that without Christ the whole tent would collapse.  Then he pulled out the center pole (representing Christ), and there was a moment of silence as the tent collapsed.

 

That was his most dramatic lesson, but he always had some sort of "object lesson".  At the end of the year, he reviewed the previous year, and as a class they were able to recall every lesson...object lessons are powerful.  Personally, I would content myself with a PICTURE of a tent though.  I'm not as bold (or crazy) and my hubby.

[Guest]

We just had our lesson on Stakes from the Ezra Taft Benson manual yesterday.  I have to say, the only things I got out of the lesson was Road Shows, Girl's Camp, and Youth Dances.  The teacher opened with the question, when you hear the word Stake, what comes to your mind?  And the sisters answered - Beef.

[Blackmarch]

I've got an RS lesson in a couple of weeks about stakes. People, help me here. I've read the manual chapter, but there's just not a whole lot I can say (or ask) about stakes. I have a few items from the chapter, but have no idea how to talk for 40 minutes about stakes.

 

This strikes me as one of those topics that long time members have heard over and over again. I doubt there is anything new I can add, but maybe you guys have some ideas.

 

So, what do stakes mean to you?  What is the benefit or difference of a stake vs the diocese structure? Why should a convert (we have a few recent ones) care about stakes?

 

Thanks.

the term come from the symbolism of a tent- the tent which represents zion. Perhaps there could be something found on how the stakes keep the tent up?

this imagery of a tent is a good metaphor for the church-

what is a tent for?

how are stakes important to it, what does it do, how does it do?

What happens when a stake comes loose?

Edited December 7, 2015 by Blackmarch

[Sunday21]

Why not go through the questions at the end of the chapter? Mind you, eww! What a lesson! Still...my ladies love being split into groups to answer one of the questions in the back of the chapter. They turn their chairs in a circle, elect a spokesperson, discuss, jot some ideas on paper, then turn their chairs back to the front and present their points. They love it. They are like little kids. Lots of giggling. They come up with great stories and examples. Works every time!

[Sunday21]

We had this lesson today. It was great! The teacher started with a quiz about how the church is organized. First you have wards and branches, also called units, then districts. The stake pres has two counsellors also called pres. They have 12 assistants called.. I forget. Their job is..I forget, she quizzed us about the names of these people in our stake. She got the info by phoning the stake pres's secretary. To be a stake pres you have to be a high priest, she explained what this is. At the end, she described how much her children benefited from stake activities. I was called out by the bishop in the middle of the lesson so that is why I am a little vague. Hope your lesson goes well,

[cdowis]

We had the lesson today, and, WOW, the stake president was in the class!  We also had someone who had served a senior mission in Russia, and he knew a great deal about the church organization.

 

As the president explained, while there are Area Seventies, they hold not keys, but only can carry out assignments from the Q12 such as finding and ordaining a stake president, and generally give instruction and counsel.  The stake president is the holder of the keys for his stake, so everything related to the spiritual aspect falls under his authority.  Technically he has a direct line of stewardship to the Q12.

 

On the other side of this is the district, which falls under the mission president.

 

One significant role of the stake is that, in order to have a temple, you must have at least one stake.

 

The stake presidency put it like this -- "When I was a bishop, I had my stake president to back me up, to make sure that things were properly handled.  Now, it falls to me."  One of the main purpose of the stake to ensure that the purity of doctrine is taught and followed, and that burden falls upon the stake president, under the direction of the Q12 and advise of the Area Seventies. 

 

The Presiding Bishopric is a whole other things.  The SP can go to them (there are thirteen DEA's or the local agents) and make request for repair, replacement, etc.  They have a strict budget so we don't always get what we want when we want it.  For example, we recently were approved to replace the old organ in the stake center.  We are waiting for approval to expand the parking lot at one of the buildings, etc.

[classylady]

We had this lesson today in Relief Society.  The teacher did a wonderful job.  One of the first questions she asked was how would you explain to a non-member what a stake is?  We had good participation during the whole lesson.

 

You'll do great Dahlia.  

[David13]

We had the lesson from Ezra Taft Benson book on Stakes today in priesthood.

Anatess, in what class did you have this lesson?

I think we may have got a little side tracked, when someone pointed out, they only build Temples where there are stakes.

Then we talked about how well built the Temples and church buildings are, and how some can be converted to Temples.  And how floods destroyed houses but not the meeting house. 

Then how there are certain areas in America where the missionaries can't go.  Where it is too dangerous and corrupt.  And someone said but there are no such areas in California, they are mostly back east.  So I offered Chicago, and Detroit, and Oakland CA.

Someone offered that at the second coming if God doesn't destroy San Franciso then he owes Sodom and Gomorrah an apology.

Thus, I learned a lot about stakes today and about the church.

This week we had two stake activities, which I am getting into and meeting a lot of stake people.  First the stake senior singles Christmas dinner, then the stake Christmas program which I missed due to rain and fatigue.

Anyway, I love the meetings more than ever, love the church more than ever.

And I also learned that to be instantly prepared for any lesson, just read from the book, ask questions, and tell stories.

And it makes for a good lesson.

dc

 

I don't know why I didn't think of stake, as in SteakHouse.  How could I forget that one.  I love beef.

Edited December 14, 2015 by David13

[Guest]

We had the lesson from Ezra Taft Benson book on Stakes today in priesthood.

Anatess, in what class did you have this lesson?

 

 

Relief Society.  From the Ezra Taft Benson book as well.

[hzdbl5]

"Then how there are certain areas in America where the missionaries can't go.  Where it is too dangerous and corrupt.  And someone said but there are no such areas in California, they are mostly back east.  So I offered Chicago, and Detroit, and Oakland CA"

 

There are missionaries assigned to Detroit.  Not just to the areas around Detroit proper, but in the inner city.  Also Flint and Pontiac, a couple of other cities that are probably not very high on anyone's vacation list.  It's interesting talking to the elders and sisters; they tend to be a bit nervous about being assigned to Detroit, but they all come out having enjoyed the assignment and the challenges that go with it.  They speak glowingly of the people they worked with.  

 

While I can't speak to Chicago, Oakland or anywhere else, I suspect Detroit is like just about any other large city in the US....

[Jamie123]

So, what do stakes mean to you?  What is the benefit or difference of a stake vs the diocese structure? Why should a convert (we have a few recent ones) care about stakes?

 

Thanks.

 

...most of us don't really think in terms of stakes, but of wards and congregations. Perhaps we would do well to broaden our vision on occasion and try to think in terms of our stake, and not just our ward.

 

I think we are very similar in the Church of England to what Vort describes: a "Stake" has always sounded to me very much like a "diocese" -  a Stake President being roughly equivalent to an diocesan bishop (the main difference being that the bishop is a full-time paid cleric). I don't think many Anglicans give much of a stuff about their diocese, and probably don't even know the name of their bishop; their focus is mainly on their "parish" (similar to a ward/branch) and its local leadership. Whenever the diocese is mentioned, it is usually by people on church committees, grumbling about how the diocese is refusing to pay for the new roof, or is demanding a greater "parish share" (the portion of tithes paid by the parish to help support the diocese).

 

Having said that, there are certain things that local church leaders are not authorised to do. For example confirmations, ordinations, the inductions of new local leaders have to be performed by a bishop. On those occasions a bishop will visit the parish church and the kids will snicker about his funny hat  However, the bishop who comes to do these things will probably not be the actual bishop of the diocese; each diocese has a number of so-called "suffragan" bishops who attend to the daily grind of bishoping. (Sometimes they have notional "sees"; for example the Bishop of Kingston is a suffragan to the diocesan Bishop of Southwark, but others are regular parish priests authorized to "step in" as bishops when the need arises.) Possibly they could be compared with a Stake President's counsellors - but I'm not sure about that

Edited December 17, 2015 by Jamie123