Anti-Catholic protests in Nevada

[Ironhold]

The protesters are brazen enough to actually barge into a church during Mass.

As the commentary points out, what these people did is illegal under Nevada state law. Here's hoping that they'll face the appropriate consequences.

[Crypto]

[unixknight]

In this day and age, I'm just grateful there wasn't any violence. 

 

Ok, so these guys are jerks.  They'll either get charged with tresspassing (or whatever) or they won't.  Seems like a non-issue to me. 

[BeccaKirstyn]

These individuals (or those affiliated with this group) are present on UNLV's campus at least once a week. They are definitely trying to make themselves known. I had no idea they had escalated to such actions.

 

Protesting on a public campus is different than barging into a private community meeting. Unfortunately though, I doubt any real legal measures will be taken with this group unless violence does occur. As the OP said, it is a misdemeanor, but I would be surprised if any legal action will occur. 

[David13]

These are muslims who have 'become' Christians?  It doesn't sound to me like they have become 'very much Christian'.

 

Because their actions seem rather 'un-Christ-like' to me.

 

dc

[NeuroTypical]

Yeah, no.  These people need to be arrested, convicted, and imprisoned.  If this were happening in my back yard, I'd go make friends with some Catholics and see about offering to organize a bunch of Elders to stand outside during mass and look imposing.

[prisonchaplain]

This is a story, because we seldom see such brazenness.  The last time I read of this kind of incident was when ACT UP engaged in it, over a decade ago.  It's amazing to me that college kids get safe spaces from "micro-aggressions," but all churches get, when their sacred space is invaded is, "Well there aren't any felony laws against this, so..." 

 

A showed this to a Catholic friend, and we wondered aloud whether the police response would have been so tepid had the target been a mosque.

Edited December 10, 2015 by prisonchaplain

[EarlJibbs]

Seems hateful to me. Their speech reeks of hypocrisy. I can tell you that if this happened at my ward there would be about 30 guys escorting them out pretty quickly. Unfortunately, if that were to happen, it could turn violent. What to do...

 

With the current climate, what do they hope to accomplish? They are not the right group, not the right time and not the right way to be preaching like this. It's all wrong. 

[unixknight]

Yeah, no.  These people need to be arrested, convicted, and imprisoned.  If this were happening in my back yard, I'd go make friends with some Catholics and see about offering to organize a bunch of Elders to stand outside during mass and look imposing.

Not sure how escalating the situation will help.

[NeuroTypical]

Despite what we see in various action movies, quite often bullies find themselves quite de-escalated at the sight of someone looking them in the eye and not blinking.

[unixknight]

And if they don't?  A violent confrontation might ensue.  So far, these activities haven't escalated to that point.  I don't think the side that DOES escalate it gets to judge the Christianity of the other side.

[Guest MormonGator]

Hate is hate. It's disgusting in all forms. 

[Vort]

And if they don't?  A violent confrontation might ensue.  So far, these activities haven't escalated to that point.  I don't think the side that DOES escalate it gets to judge the Christianity of the other side.

 

How do you figure that standing in front of a cathedral to prevent disruptions makes you the bad guy? The "escalators" are the ones doing the escalating. That includes screaming in people's faces, calling names, and disrupting services.

 

In high school, I once got suspended because another kid attacked me and I defended myself. Everyone knew he attacked me; there were a dozen witnesses. But I was punished equally with him for "fighting". The principal, named Slocum, was too much a coward to say that the kid who got attacked was not in fact equally guilty with the kid who did the attacking.

 

At some point, the cowardice and equivocation must end. Those standing in front of a cathedral are not the "escalators".

[Guest MormonGator]

In high school, I once got suspended because another kid attacked me and I defended myself. Everyone knew he attacked me; there were a dozen witnesses. But I was punished equally with him for "fighting". The principal, named Slocum, was too much a coward to say that the kid who got attacked was not in fact equally guilty with the kid who did the attacking.

 

 Wow! It happens in other schools, too!? 

[unixknight]

How do you figure that standing in front of a cathedral to prevent disruptions makes you the bad guy? The "escalators" are the ones doing the escalating. That includes screaming in people's faces, calling names, and disrupting services.

 

Because of the implication of physical force.  A group of big dudes standing in front of the building is a clear message saying "We will physically stop you from doing this."

 

Now, don't get me wrong.  Sometimes it is necessary to use physical means to defend one's self from harm.  The difference here is that in your example, you were physically attacked and (rightly) used physical force to defend yourself.

 

So far, these trolls who roll into Catholic Churches to cause a disturbance aren't attacking anyone physically.

 

Now, imagine, if you will, a group of big dudes standing outside, awaiting these trolls.  Can you be certain somebody's temper won't flare up and turn it into a brawl?  If it does, which side was the one who showed up ready to take it to the next level?

[Vort]

If it does, which side was the one who showed up ready to take it to the next level?

 

The answer is obvious: The "trolls" are the ones showing up, ready to "take it to the next level" against those standing to defend the worshipers.

 

The correct response to evil is rarely to just let evil have its own way.

[NeuroTypical]

"They'll either get charged with tresspassing (or whatever) or they won't."

 

But Unixknight - wouldn't that take cops?  Wouldn't the presence of cops escalate the situation?  Doesn't the mere fact of a cop's presence imply physical force?  Can you be certain somebody's temper won't flare up and turn it into a brawl?  What if they resist arrest?  

 

Unixknight's apparent hidden baseless assumption: The only people who legitimately can resist bad guys, are those whom are in the employ of a government.  

 

Phooey!

 

 

 

"I don't think the side that DOES escalate it gets to judge the Christianity of the other side."

 

From where I'm standing, nobody really gets to judge anybody's "Christianity" (assuming you are defining the word like I am, which, after reading your posts in this thread, I'm not certain).  

 

 

"The correct response to evil is rarely to just let evil have its own way."

 

I don't see any evil at work here.  These are just bullies, possibly operating from some misguided sincere desire to help folks.  

Edited December 11, 2015 by NeuroTypical

[Guest]

I often wonder what we're supposed to do in a situation just like this.

 

I had a non-violent incident with a "bag lady" in one ward.  She was dressed in rags and had what appeared to be all her earthly possessions on her person. Pots and pans, various tools, souvenirs of unknown origin all made a huge racket as she walked.

 

The ward greeted her kindly and talked with her about the gospel.  She responded in kind and even said she'd read the BoM that we handed her.  So far so good, right?

 

During sacrament meeting, the people who were talking with her the most let her know that we tried to be quiet and reverent during the sacrament meeting.  She sat quietly for a few minutes, then excused herself to go to the bathroom.  That was just long enough to return during the sacrament service and make a banging clanging noise during this reverent time.  She sat down in a different seat than before. It was way up in front so she could make the most noise possible.

 

It was fast and testimony meeting. And she carried on a conversation with a few of those who got up to bear testimony.  She was in the front seat after all.

 

All of us were ready to chock it up to ignorance.  She just didn't know any better.  She needed a hand to guide her...

 

As the meeting ended, I went to speak to her to get a gut reaction of her.  None of her clothes had any real dirt on them. They'd been stained with something to give the appearance of dirt.  She had showered.  And she had no odor on her.  My nose is very sensitive.  No dirt under the fingernails.  Not a manicure, but clearly not harsh living.  Her shoes covered her feet and the treads were still workable.  Her teeth were not the best, but passable for a person with a home and regular access to dental hygiene.

 

My take was that she was faking the whole thing just to see how we'd react.  Maybe it was a social experiment.  Maybe she was just trying to bug some Mormons.  I have no idea what her motive was.  Granted, it was nothing violent.  But the interruptions and the irreverent behavior certainly interfered with our regular worship services.

[Crypto]

 Wow! It happens in other schools, too!? 

Can confirm, with cousins and siblings as well. (Not to mention children)

I find it sad how victim blaming in one circumstance is seen as a horrible evil, while in schools it's seen as justifiable.

Edited December 11, 2015 by Crypto

[NeuroTypical]

Appropriate image post is appropriate.  

[unixknight]

The answer is obvious: The "trolls" are the ones showing up, ready to "take it to the next level" against those standing to defend the worshipers.

 

The correct response to evil is rarely to just let evil have its own way.

 

Who said anything about letting it have its own way?  In my very first post I referred to criminal charges.  What more do you want?  Think the Nevada police would be pleased to see goons stationed in front of Catholic Churches?  Think that'll make their job easier or harder?

 

And while I would agree these trolls are misguided, I'd hardly call them evil.  They've managed to avoid violence so far.  There are more than enough examples of violence out there of you're looking for evil.  This is just a nuisance.

Edited December 14, 2015 by unixknight

[prisonchaplain]

I'm still struck by the level of tolerance some seem to have for this kind of disruption.  It should not happen on college campuses, when speakers come.  It should not happen to politicians, during campaigns.  The last place it should happen is in a house of worship.  I'm all "broken windows theory" on this one--nip it in the bud, or invite domestic chaos.

Edited December 14, 2015 by prisonchaplain

[Guest MormonGator]

To me any LDS who is anti Catholic/Anti-Muslim or anti any religion other than LDS should hang their head in shame. It's hard to say "respect my beliefs" if you don't do the same. 

Edited December 14, 2015 by MormonGator

[Vort]

 

Who said anything about letting it have its own way?  In my very first post I referred to criminal charges.  What more do you want?

 

If the police took care of the matter, that would be great.

 

Think the Nevada police would be pleased to see goons stationed in front of Catholic Churches?  Think that'll make their job easier or harder?

 

If it prevents incidents from taking place, then of course it would make their job easier.

 

And while I would agree these trolls are misguided, I'd hardly call them evil.  They've managed to avoid violence so far.  There are more than enough examples of violence out there of you're looking for evil.

 

Their actions are evil. That's the point.

[unixknight]

Yeah I understand the cops aren't exactly jumping on this one, but again, I suspect that's because there are bigger fish to fry.  Doesn't mean the answer is street justice. 

 

Here's the thing:  I get the desire to have some guys be there to provide a physical barrier, especially if the police aren't as available as we'd like.  I get that.  I do.  I'd be tempted to do the same.

 

BUT

 

If that's a step we're willing to take, then we have to do so with eyes wide open and honest about what's happening.  It sends the message that we are now prepared to use physical force - violence - to prevent these intrusions.  Doesn't matter if we want it to become violent or not... the very fact that we're talking about getting a goon squad together is the clearest sign ther we're preparing for it.  I call that escalating the situation.  If one of these goons looses his cool and it comes to blows, then there will be consequences.  Similarly, if one of the trolls does, there will be consequences. 

 

"Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword."

 

http://biblehub.com/kjv/matthew/26.htm

 

This is what the Savior said when one of His followers initiated violence against the soldiers that came to arrest Him. 

 

So far, we have a bunch of trolls who think the best use of their time in serving the Lord is to go try and shame Catholics in their own churches.  Jerk behavior?  Absoolutely.  Illegal?  Almost certainly.  Embarassing to the rest of us Christians?  Yup.  I reserve the word evil for much greater threats than these.  In a world with Planned Parenthood and ISIS, this is barely even on the radar.