Can men and women who are not married to each other be friends?

[cdowis]

It's part of the Ten Commandments, but I just don't hear anything about this.  No priesthood lesson on it.

 

OK, I know the definition, but how do I know that I am doing this.  What does it mean in reality.  How can I avoid it.

 

[cdowis]

Perhaps this is related to the story of driving the stage coach too close to the edge of the cliff, or flying an airplane too close to the top of the trees.

 

Is this a sin, stupidity, or is it ok as long as we know what we are doing?  For example, can a man become friends with a married woman -- he only sees and talks with her at church, for example.

Edited December 17, 2015 by cdowis

[Guest]

Covet is something in your heart.

 

So, friendship is just friendship.  It doesn't matter if you see her everyday, every hour, every second.  If, in your heart, all you desire is that pure love of Christ - to love one's neighbor - then that's what you are supposed to do.  That's your covenant.

 

But, even if you only see her once in a blue moon, if in your heart you desire (covet) to do something that would break her marital covenant thereby leading her farther from Christ, then that covetousness is breaking your covenants and you'll need to do something to change that desire in your heart.

Edited December 17, 2015 by anatess

[Vort]

Covetousness means pining for something that someone else owns. It is a form of pride, where you think you "should" possess thus-and-such (a car, a TV, a wife, a big house, a baby) because someone else does. It is an emotionally unhealthy thing to do, and inevitably leads to misery.

 

Note that this is different from lust. You may lust after your neighbor's wife without actually coveting her, and you may covet her without actually lusting for her. Both may be present, as well, but though they might be related, they are different phenomena.

[Guest]

Coveting is partially your desires and partially your attitude.  But that's not all that you're really talking about is it?  If I'm reading you correctly, I think you're playing with fire.

Edited December 17, 2015 by Guest

[cdowis]

 I think you're playing with fire.

 

OK, the safest thing is to completely ignore the sisters unless we are home teaching, or forced to talk with them in an administration function.  By "ignore", that means we can only say "hello" to them.

That is indeed safe.

 

Am I missing something here?

 

No sarcasm, but that seems to be exactly the attitude that I observe among the brethren.  Build an impenetrable fireproof wall.

Edited December 17, 2015 by cdowis

[cdowis]

Covetousness means pining for something that someone else owns. It is a form of pride, where you think you "should" possess thus-and-such (a car, a TV, a wife, a big house, a baby) because someone else does. It is an emotionally unhealthy thing to do, and inevitably leads to misery.

 

Note that this is different from lust. You may lust after your neighbor's wife without actually coveting her, and you may covet her without actually lusting for her. Both may be present, as well, but though they might be related, they are different phenomena.

 

That's all?  I know you can do better than that.

 

How about, what is the difference between a friend and an acquaintance. 

Edited December 17, 2015 by cdowis

[pam]

That's all?  I know you can do better than that.

 

How about, what is the difference between a friend and an acquaintance. 

 

I don't get why you would give a response to Vort like that.  I saw nothing wrong with his response and his explanation.  It was simple and to the point.

[omegaseamaster75]

 

 For example, can a man become friends with a married woman -- he only sees and talks with her at church, for example.

 

Men and women can't be friends outside of marriage or a BF/GF relationship.

[pam]

Men and women can't be friends outside of marriage or a BF/GF relationship.

 

I disagree.  I am friends with many men I'm not married to.  

[omegaseamaster75]

I disagree.  I am friends with many men I'm not married to.  

 

 

Typical woman response, FYI guys don't work that way underneath the "friendship" they are not friends. Not really.

[pam]

Typical woman response, FYI guys don't work that way underneath the "friendship" they are not friends. Not really.

 

 

Well there you have it Palerider. We can no longer be friends. Even after 16 years.

[omegaseamaster75]

In fairness, I trend towards extremes, my wife says never use absolutes. She is right.

 

So, can men and women be friends? Sure. With caveats

[Guest]

 

 

For example, can a man become friends with a married woman -- he only sees and talks with her at church, for example.

 

I have male friends like this, but generally it's a friendship my husband and I share. Maybe warm acquaintance would be a better term. There is no desire for more than friendship, so I wouldn't classify it as coveting. 

 

However, I would not have a friendship with another man where we are confiding in each other, lunching together, having phone conversations just to talk, etc. That's over the line and playing with fire and whatever other idioms that mean "stupid". 

[Guest]

Perhaps this is related to the story of driving the stage coach too close to the edge of the cliff, or flying an airplane too close to the top of the trees.

 

Is this a sin, stupidity, or is it ok as long as we know what we are doing?  For example, can a man become friends with a married woman -- he only sees and talks with her at church, for example.

 

OK, the safest thing is to completely ignore the sisters unless we are home teaching, or forced to talk with them in an administration function.  By "ignore", that means we can only say "hello" to them.

That is indeed safe.

 

Am I missing something here?

 

No sarcasm, but that seems to be exactly the attitude that I observe among the brethren.  Build an impenetrable fireproof wall.

 

Look at these two posts.  (No sarcasm? Really? -- no sarcasm here either (end sarcasm))

 

You quoted my "I think you're playing with fire."  You missed my "If I'm reading you correctly."  Am I?  By your response, I guess not.  But then I'd wonder why you posted what you did.  Vort and Anatess both gave some pretty good defining lines.  What are you really looking for?

 

Can men and women be friends?  As Omega said -- "with caveats."  Take a look at Eowyn's post.  She shows some wisdom there.

 

There is a reason why in decades past, it was "inappropriate" for married men and women to casually associate without their spouse present.  Was it always required?  Probably not.  But it was a way to keep things safe.  We are much more familiar in our associations today whether married or not.  And look where we are as a society with regard to marriage, fidelity, and sexual relations.

 

No, I'm not saying that every time I talk to a woman away from my wife I'm going to want to jump her bones.  But as a general practice, if I become very familiar with every woman in my life, I think I'd be playing with fire.

[cdowis]

I have male friends like this, but generally it's a friendship my husband and I share.

 

 

Yep.  While the "primary friendship" may with the wife, the husband is included so that he feels you are a family friend -- you are not a threat to his family.

 

Also, all contacts are made in church or at a church event.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++

Now, what about where the husband is inactive, doesn't come to church.

[omegaseamaster75]

I have male friends like this, but generally it's a friendship my husband and I share. Maybe warm acquaintance would be a better term. There is no desire for more than friendship, so I wouldn't classify it as coveting. 

 

However, I would not have a friendship with another man where we are confiding in each other, lunching together, having phone conversations just to talk, etc. That's over the line and playing with fire and whatever other idioms that mean "stupid". 

Exactly, women should think about things that friends do together and ask themselves if their husbands would be OK with those things. The answer is likely no. SO they are not your friends but acquaintances.

[cdowis]

What are you really looking for?

 

 

To discuss a topic that no one talks about.

 

Guys do "guy things" together.  But what is someone is not a "guy's guy".  He is interested in things that guys don't talk about -- woman talk, so to speak.  About kid/teenage issues.  (NOT husband/wife stuff, of course).  YM camp, school, pregnancy issues (!!)

 

We know men who can associate well with the boys, but what about someone who is equally comfortable engaging with young girls.  Who knows how to talk to them, just at the guy who talks with teen boy stuff.

 

What am I looking for?  To talk about the unspoken, men who feel comfortable with a father-daughter, or brother-sister relations.  

Edited December 17, 2015 by cdowis

[cdowis]

Exactly, women should think about things that friends do together and ask themselves if their husbands would be OK with those things. The answer is likely no. SO they are not your friends but acquaintances.

 

The problem is that the husbands do not feel comfortable with those topics in any setting.  Does he attend girl chit-chat?  So, she avoid her girlfriends as well.  The issue, as I see it, is not "comfort", but whether he would feel threatened, that this person is an intruder.

[pam]

Maybe these two topics should have been split into two different threads.   We're getting away from the title of this thread.

[NeuroTypical]

Here's a link.

 

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/men-and-women-cant-be-just-friends/

 

Most men already know this.  Most women should read it and be surprised and then deal with it.

Edited December 17, 2015 by NeuroTypical

[cdowis]

Maybe these two topics should have been split into two different threads.   We're getting away from the title of this thread.

 

This was deliberate.   Rather clever, methinks.

Edited December 17, 2015 by cdowis

[cdowis]

Here's a link.

 

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/men-and-women-cant-be-just-friends/

 

Most men already know this.  Most women should read it and be surprised and then deal with it.

 

The LDS has an interesting insight into this, but that is another subject. 

Edited December 17, 2015 by cdowis

[Guest MormonGator]

Of course they can. One of my best  friends is a woman. We go out to dinner by ourselves all the time. 

LadyGator knows this. If I didn't hang out with my BFF LadyGator would be oddly insulted.  Her husband doesn't care either. 

Why couldn't they? It's 2015. This shouldn't be an issue.  

Edited December 17, 2015 by MormonGator

[JojoBag]

It's part of the Ten Commandments, but I just don't hear anything about this.  No priesthood lesson on it.

 

OK, I know the definition, but how do I know that I am doing this.  What does it mean in reality.  How can I avoid it.

 

The answer is NO!  No married man or woman has any business having friends of the opposite sex.  It is a recipe for disaster.  You can be friends with another married couple, but not friends with another man's wife.