Pornography?

[unixknight]

For what it's worth, in some parts of those last few posts it's hard to tell whether the tone is meant to be snarky or sincere.  A misunderstanding happened, maybe?  Perhaps a clarification would set things straight.

[The Folk Prophet]

For what it's worth, in some parts of those last few posts it's hard to tell whether the tone is meant to be snarky or sincere.  A misunderstanding happened, maybe?  Perhaps a clarification would set things straight.

 

In my posts or his?

 

Here's my read: I shared a concept. Instead of discussing it for the sake of potential enlightenment, the response is that I just don't get it. My response to that: If someone doesn't want to discuss the matter but is simply interested in telling me how idiotic I am, feel free to take a flying leap.

 

I'm not concerned with enforcing my view.

 

If someone wants to politely and evenly discuss the matter (even in disagreement), that's great. If someone just wants to tell me how I just don't get it...back to the flying leap idea.

[JojoBag]

I refuse to discuss this with someone who's going to be so arrogant and condescending about it. If you aren't interested in my thinking on the matter and just view me as uneducated, just not intelligent enough, or having simply put no thought into the matter, then it is clear that A) you do not know me at all and B) there is absolutely no value in further discourse with you on it.

I'm sorry it came across this way. I do not question your intelligence. In light of what has been given in general conferences, I do not understand how you would not think we wouldn't take our addictions with us. As Elder Rector and others have taught, we take all addiction with us when we die.

[The Folk Prophet]

I'm sorry it came across this way. I do not question your intelligence. In light of what has been given in general conferences, I do not understand how you would not think we wouldn't take our addictions with us. As Elder Rector and others have taught, we take all addiction with us when we die.

 

Thank you for the apology.

 

It simply makes no sense to me that we can take "all" addictions with us, Elder Rector's view notwithstanding. Physical addictions are physical. With no "physical", how can we have them?

 

I do not doubt we take some addictions with us. I do not doubt we retain the same underlying character that said addictions stem from. But there are certain things that drive us that stem directly from the mortal, and without the mortal, how can we have the same drive?

 

I simply do not see it as so black-and-white as some do. There are things of the physical that we may, psychologically, crave post mortality. With time, it strikes me, it is very reasonable that these things will fade. It seems very reasonable that a great deal of things we crave in live will not be relevant when we are spirits. For example...eating.

 

Moreover, the specific acts, in many cases, are not the evil unto themselves. Smoking has nothing evil in it. It is only evil in that is harms us and is disobedient to known commandments. Take away both of those things and smoking is so much hot air (pun intended). So who cares if we desire to smoke post mortality? It's not like the smoking itself can harm us any more. But the underlying character...the one we rebelled against God with (assuming that was the case)...that will continue with us. And that's what matters.

 

I have no doubt that the well meaning and good person who smoked (or the like) their whole life because they didn't know any better, then spent a thousand years in spirit prison unable to smoke (or the like) before they were given the opportunity to accept the gospel through proxy baptism will have very little trouble with the supposed addiction that they haven't engaged in for the last thousand years. To think otherwise is, in my view, unreasonable.

Edited January 12, 2016 by The Folk Prophet

[unixknight]

In my posts or his?

 

Both.  :)

 

We often have a hard time understanding how our words can be misconstrued, but it happens to all of us.

[Guest MormonGator]

Both.  :)

 

We often have a hard time understanding how our words can be misconstrued, but it happens to all of us.

 Wise words for all of us bro, myself included. 

Edited January 12, 2016 by MormonGator

[estradling75]

So what does one do?  Filters don't work on adults.  There's a million ways around them to the point where defeating such measures is absolutely trivial. 

 

 

I am not sure I entirely agree with this.  They don't work if they are externally imposed, when they are used to destroy agency.  However if the person with the problem wants to make it more difficult to help break their habits and bad patterns then they can be very useful. 

 

On other words they can work 'with' a person trying, but are not so effective used 'against' them.

[unixknight]

I am not sure I entirely agree with this.  They don't work if they are externally imposed, when they are used to destroy agency.  However if the person with the problem wants to make it more difficult to help break their habits and bad patterns then they can be very useful. 

 

On other words they can work 'with' a person trying, but are not so effective used 'against' them.

 

Yeah I see what you mean.  Making it more difficult may provide just enough added effort that the person can regain control before tumbling off the wagon.  I definitely agree.

 

It's just that I often see people expecting it to be a total solution, and it really isn't.

[What's in a name?]

Texygirl:

 

I read the first two pages, but not the rest. Please forgive me if my $0.02 has already been contributed.  Some thoughts that popped into my mind to add to what was posted:

 

1) You cannot change anyone but yourself.  You simply cannot change your husband.  Only he can do that. And you can only help if he wants you to help.  All too often, we hold onto expectations of our spouses, and onto an expectation that we can have an input into their changing.  The sooner we learn to let go of any expectations that we can alter anything about our spouse, the sooner we will stop creating misery for ourselves.  

 

2) While you can help your husband see the need to change, and find motivation to change, from what I read in the OP and first couple follow-ups, you will not be able to do so from your current paradigm. You are acting out of fear and hurt.  To be effective in helping a spouse, you a) need to be motivated by love for them, and b) they need to be able to see/feel that is the reason for your actions.  Your hurt is understandable.  I'm not commenting on the validity of your reactions.  I'm only commenting on what motivates you to talk to him about it, and what is the only way it will be effective.  You know what he is doing is wrong.  Can you see him and his actions as our Father see's him, with love and concern, and a desire to help him achieve the improvements he needs?  Not in order to stop your pain, but truly out of concern for what is best for him? Make sure he feels and understands that first.  

 

3) There is an analogy in a book called Real Love in Marriage that perhaps would be of help to you in re framing your perspective on his behaviors, and your hurt caused by it.  Imagine you are laying pool-side on a warm sunny summer day.  You hear someone splashing in the pool, and feel a few cold drops of water hit your hot skin occasionally. The splashing intensifies, and you find yourself getting pelted with more and larger drops of shockingly-cold-to-hot-skin water.  Pretty soon, you are getting annoyed by all this noise and cold water interrupting what was previously a nice peaceful and relaxing sunning.  Eventually you decide to get up to tell this jerk to quit being so inconsiderate and go somewhere else to play so roughly in the water. The nerve of some people, right?  

 

Now, when you get up high enough to see over the edge of the pool into the water, you notice a person is drowning, and desperately flailing about to reach the side and keep from going under!  In such a situation, how long did it take for your feelings of annoyance/anger to go away?  In an instant, of course.  Your husband is drowning in some way, and as truly bad as his behaviors may be, they are not much more than an attempt to keep from drowning in emotional misery.  Perhaps to seek surrogate feelings of love/acceptance.   The particulars don't matter as much as it matters for you to re-frame your understanding of his behavior. He isn't flailing about in an attempt to splash you will salacious material, and cause you hurt. No, his behaviors are about him and his flaws/weaknesses/agancy than it is about you!  It is NOT about you! When people attack or do hurtful things, it is always about them, not you.  Healthy people don't attack, or flail around so wildly in the pool as to splash us with unwanted water.  

 

4) As my son on his mission said with wisdom beyond his years: "I've never met a person that couldn't use more love".  It may seem counter-intuitive at times, but acceptance of your husband as he really is, likely will have more impact on him than any amount of criticism, cajoling, demands, or other forms of manipulation.  I am convinced, when most people feel truly loved, whether by a spouse, God, etc, they find themselves whole enough to be strong and choose the right. In my readings, my observance of myself and others, I see that many of our  Whether your H needs to change or not, whether you two will eventually divorce or not, no matter what the circumstances, it is never a bad choice to give love to another that is struggling. Can you reframe your understanding of his misbehavior as being about him, develop compassion and bring up feelings of love for him despite his choices, and show him that love?  

 

5) One of the allures of porn, even though it is images, is the idea that a person is choosing to show titillating images to the observer.  It's a fallacy of course, but that is how it often feels (unconsciously) to a male observer.  Do you ever initiate?  Does he feel you freely and willingly give him the physical attention he craves?  Now, I want to be very careful and be sure to not insinuate in any way shape or form that his choices are your fault. NOT at all!  His choices about him are his problem, and about him, despite whatever difficulties may be going on.  He doesn't find you stimulating when pregnant? That is NOT about you - it is about him and his flaws.  But, I make the above comment as a way for you to experiment how he may be lacking in feeling loved, and to see if you can make a difference in how he feels.

 

6) I just ventured onto page 3, reading only your posts.  Just like letting down our guards on moving ratings, letting the world in, and finding ourselves far deeper than expected, not maintaining appropriate boundaries outside of marriage will eventually lead to very bad situations.  We don't talk with old flames on FB. We don't carpool with members of the opposite sex alone. Not if we want to stay faithful.  Not because those actions will result in cheating, but because those actions represent letting down our shields protecting us from wandering to far.  Sure, the carpool may have been innocent.  The looking may have been nothing more than looking. But he clearly has let his guard down. Nothing good comes of that.  Look where the justifications relating to movie/show ratings has led.