Pornography?

[estradling75]

 

 

Why then can we not have a medicine to control male testosterone levels?

 

We do... It is there to treat abnormally high or abnormally low levels.

 

However the way you describe it make me think you don't really understand it.  It is true that the hormonal level peaks early in men and then begins a slow and gradual fade.  What you describe is not a normal fade but a falling off of a cliff.  Simply put a 29 year old porn addicted person, doesn't become a 31 year old porn free preson, simply or largely because of falling hormone levels.  Male hormones simply don't fall that fast.  If they do/did you have a medical problem that needs to be addressed.

 

You do know that your father and brother are really close to being the same biologically speaking.  If it was simply or largely a matter of hormones levels then your father should have pulled out 20+ years ago. (assuming he is 20+ years older then you) and your brother can/should have pulled out at about the same age you did.  

 

Since they did not and you did, its the biggest indicator that it is not hormone level, but something else.  So look in a mirror and realize that your struggles combined with the Grace of God changed your nature.  Which is the whole point.  To many people want  a "quick fix", they want prayer, or hormone injection to simply make it go away.  That is not God's plan for us, God's plan is to change our nature.  That takes work, and dedicated effort over time.

Edited January 4, 2016 by estradling75

[Backroads]

Regarding estradling's point, there was a bit in the Ensign that said sometimes the most of darkness is part of God's plan. Hold to the iron rod and get through it, not look to be teleported out.

[priesthoodpower]

I'm grateful that you are aware of this and keep your wife and daughter away from them, but

 

ick, ick ick!!!!  It's so repulsive what porn can turn people into.  

 

oh I got stories, as Im sure we all do. but thats for another day.

[priesthoodpower]

  What you describe is not a normal fade but a falling off of a cliff.  Simply put a 29 year old porn addicted person, doesn't become a 31 year old porn free preson, simply or largely because of falling hormone levels.  Male hormones simply don't fall that fast.  If they do/did you have a medical problem that needs to be addressed.

 

 

In my case the testosterone levels did drop drastically in the span of 6 months, as you have implied I attribute it to several things.

1. Age (38/39yr)

2. Lack of exercise, I stopped going to the gym at the age of 35

3. Diet, too much fast food and soda (one 20 oz bottle a day)

 

I saw my doctor and he said my blood levels were higher then normal and I need to be careful or Ill become diabetic

 

 

 

You do know that your father and brother are really close to being the same biologically speaking. If it was simply or largely a matter of hormones levels then your father should have pulled out 20+ years ago. (assuming he is 20+ years older then you) and your brother can/should have pulled out at about the same age you did.

Since they did not and you did, its the biggest indicator that it is not hormone level, but something else. So look in a mirror and realize that your struggles combined with the Grace of God changed your nature. Which is the whole point. To many people want a "quick fix", they want prayer, or hormone injection to simply make it go away. That is not God's plan for us, God's plan is to change our nature. That takes work, and dedicated effort over time.

I agree. As described by jojobag, porn addiction escalates from soft core, to medium, to hardcore, to weird sick stuff. Over the years I found myself following that pattern where the soft stuff was not satisfying to me anymore and so I sought out hardcore. Because i knew what I was doing was wrong and prayed constantly for forgiveness and strength, my pattern was always to get my "hit" (satisfaction) and then get out. My body wanted the instant gratification but my spirit and mind kept trying to fight it. Eventually as I hit 38-39 yrs old and my testosterone levels dropped my body did not crave those things as badly, my mind and spirit are now in control.

 

I believe that other men that allow porn to consume their lives and see nothing wrong it getting deeper and deeper into that filth to the point where they are slaves to their bodys. At that point the body controls the mind and spirit, so much so that I believe there is an evil spirit that has control of the body. I say this after observing my father over the years.

[texygirl]

Thank you for all the advice and words of experience on here. It makes me sad that there is so much out there that can easily cause so much pain to families and to ourselves. Now that we have the internet I see how it could be a real struggle not to give in to looking at inappropriate things when they always seem to be in your face. I went out and bought a big picture of a temple and hung it on our wall. We have a few pictures of Jesus but we didn't have one of the temple. We have been trying to read the scriptures and have done FHE a couple times. I am really going to try to make these things a habit. I know it's something we should be doing for our kids and for ourselves. It's so easy to lose focus of what we need to do and why we are here on the earth. It's easy to get lost and confused especially when you are not as close to Heavenly Father as you should be. I think having the Spirit in our lives would help alot. I think it would make our home a happier and safer place. I just pray that I can be a stronger person. Strong enough to keep doing what I need to for my family.

[texygirl]

Thank you for all the advice and words of experience on here. It makes me sad that there is so much out there that can easily cause so much pain to families and to ourselves. Now that we have the internet I see how it could be a real struggle not to give in to looking at inappropriate things when they always seem to be in your face. I went out and bought a big picture of a temple and hung it on our wall. We have a few pictures of Jesus but we didn't have one of the temple. We have been trying to read the scriptures and have done FHE a couple times. I am really going to try to make these things a habit. I know it's something we should be doing for our kids and for ourselves. It's so easy to lose focus of what we need to do and why we are here on the earth. It's easy to get lost and confused especially when you are not as close to Heavenly Father as you should be. I think having the Spirit in our lives would help alot. I think it would make our home a happier and safer place. I just pray that I can be a stronger person. Strong enough to keep doing what I need to for my family.

[unixknight]

The trouble with porn addition, as opposed to other forms of addiction, is that it's FREE.  It amazes me that anyone ever bothers to pay for porn at all, considering how ubiquitous free pornsites are out there.  Getting addicted to alcohol or cocaine means having to find a way to fund the habit.  Getting addicted to porn means being able to pay your Internet access bill.

 

Now, it might seem like the solution is to simply not have the Internet, but that solution is getting harder and harder to actually implement.  My daughter, who is in second grade, already needs Internet access to do her homework assignments sometimes.  I need it for work, and my wife uses it to pay bills and perform other financial tasks (as do I). 

 

So what does one do?  Filters don't work on adults.  There's a million ways around them to the point where defeating such measures is absolutely trivial. 

 

So that's where prayer comes in, no doubt... but it also takes compassion from others, emotional support, friendship, etc... Because let's be honest, as powerful a tool as prayer is, it can only work as far as the person praying dedicates himself/herself to it.  That's why people often say they need more than the canned answer "pray and read Scripture."  If it were that easy, there'd never be a crisis.

[Guest MormonGator]

The trouble with porn addition, as opposed to other forms of addiction, is that it's FREE.  It amazes me that anyone ever bothers to pay for porn at all, considering how ubiquitous free pornsites are out there.  Getting addicted to alcohol or cocaine means having to find a way to fund the habit.  Getting addicted to porn means being able to pay your Internet access bill.

 

Now, it might seem like the solution is to simply not have the Internet, but that solution is getting harder and harder to actually implement.  My daughter, who is in second grade, already needs Internet access to do her homework assignments sometimes.  I need it for work, and my wife uses it to pay bills and perform other financial tasks (as do I). 

 

So what does one do?  Filters don't work on adults.  There's a million ways around them to the point where defeating such measures is absolutely trivial. 

 

So that's where prayer comes in, no doubt... but it also takes compassion from others, emotional support, friendship, etc... Because let's be honest, as powerful a tool as prayer is, it can only work as far as the person praying dedicates himself/herself to it.  That's why people often say they need more than the canned answer "pray and read Scripture."  If it were that easy, there'd never be a crisis.

 All true. 

The other problem with the "porn addiction" is that people wrongly think they are "addicted" when in reality, they just have a bad habit. I know of addicts who couldn't wake up in the morning without a gram, a pill, a shot or a drink.  In fact, one guy was so bad he needed to drink just to sign his name because his hands were shaking. Are there porn addicts? Yup. Do most generally just have a bad habit and not a psychological addiction? Sadly, yes. 

Edited January 7, 2016 by MormonGator

[omegaseamaster75]

 All true. 

The other problem with the "porn addiction" is that people wrongly think they are "addicted" when in reality, they just have a bad habit. I know of addicts who couldn't wake up in the morning without a gram, a pill, a shot or a drink.  In fact, one guy was so bad he needed to drink just to sign his name because his hands were shaking. Are there porn addicts? Yup. Do most generally just have a bad habit and not a psychological addiction? Sadly, yes. 

I agree 100% with this statement. Christianity vilifies porn. Rightly so in my opinion, by the same token Christians, because the tolerance level is so low are very quick to throw out the addiction label. It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. Priesthood holder X views porn 1-2x a week ( a bad habit) we tell him he is addicted. Priesthood holder X say wow I'm addicted to porn and the effort to quit or change the bad habit goes away. Why because he is an addict and can't help himself or so we tell him.

 

No one should look at this stuff it is terrible, terrible stuff, but we shouldn't throw the "A" word around so freely either.

[unixknight]

I agree 100% with this statement. Christianity vilifies porn. Rightly so in my opinion, by the same token Christians, because the tolerance level is so low are very quick to throw out the addiction label. It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. Priesthood holder X views porn 1-2x a week ( a bad habit) we tell him he is addicted. Priesthood holder X say wow I'm addicted to porn and the effort to quit or change the bad habit goes away. Why because he is an addict and can't help himself or so we tell him.

 

No one should look at this stuff it is terrible, terrible stuff, but we shouldn't throw the "A" word around so freely either.

 

Great point.  We do love our labels in this culture, don't we?  Maybe we're so tempted to do so because our lives are always inundated with information that we sort of need to try and tie things off in little packets in order to make them easier to process.  Homophobe, cop-hater, addict, moonbat, thug, nutjob, zealot, science denier, commie...  So easy to pigeonhole people and problems into little boxes where we can just use habitual responses to them...

 

But those labels rarely apply in any useful sense, and things are so much more nuanced. 

 

I don't know how to tell the difference between a genuine porn addict and someone who just has a bad habit, but I think we can definitely agree that avoiding the bad habit in the first place makes the question of addiction meaningless.

[Guest MormonGator]

I don't know how to tell the difference between a genuine porn addict and someone who just has a bad habit, but I think we can definitely agree that avoiding the bad habit in the first place makes the question of addiction meaningless.

 Yup. That is THE question, isn't it? Because if you have a genuine addiction (that means a psychological deficiency) it does diminish culpability. 

The addicts I've met firsthand hate the drug they are addicted too and wish they never started. They lash out at who introduced them. They hate people who glorify drug use because they've been there. While that's certainly not all that determines who is an addict, that's a good start.  

[unixknight]

Truth is truth. 

 

That makes me think of one of the other insidious problems when it comes to porn.  Avoiding an addiction to meth is easy... I don't have any avenue by which meth could get into my home.  I wouldn't even know how to get some if I wanted it.  Alcohol, a lot easier but I'd still have to make the effort to go to the liquor store to get it.  Porn... only a few clicks and keystrokes away... 

 

It's why I have more compassion toward porn addicts than any other category of addict (I still feel for them.  I don't mean to sound like I don't care).  It's because to get addicted to the other stuff you have to either go looking for it, or hang out with people who will expose you to it.  Porn will come right into your home through your Internet connection and look for you.

 

Literally.

[Guest MormonGator]

Truth is truth. 

 

That makes me think of one of the other insidious problems when it comes to porn.  Avoiding an addiction to meth is easy... I don't have any avenue by which meth could get into my home.  I wouldn't even know how to get some if I wanted it.  Alcohol, a lot easier but I'd still have to make the effort to go to the liquor store to get it.  Porn... only a few clicks and keystrokes away... 

 

It's why I have more compassion toward porn addicts than any other category of addict (I still feel for them.  I don't mean to sound like I don't care).  It's because to get addicted to the other stuff you have to either go looking for it, or hang out with people who will expose you to it.  Porn will come right into your home through your Internet connection and look for you.

 

Literally.

Great points 

[unixknight]

Thanks.  Can you hear the voice of experience in my posts? 

 

The thing is, I often feel a little frustration when seeing discussions where people talk about Internet filters as being a solution... I work as a software engineer so I know my way around computers, but I'm hardly unusual in knowing how computers work when it comes to this stuff. 

 

The filter solution is okay for kids, who don't really know the finer points of how computers, networks and such work... but it's a lot harder for the older kids and especially adults.  Mix in the adult who owns the computer and whose account as FULL control, and Internet filters are about as effective at stopping porn as an armored truck with the windows rolled down would be for stopping bullets.  Such filters are easily disabled, or different browsers can be installed, or different devices can be purchased to view porn even if, somehow, the person couldn't manage it on their own PC.

 

The only meaningful solution is for the person with the porn habit to gain control over themselves.  They alone can stop the flow.  Prayer is critical here, as is the support and guidance from others.  I can't even imagine trying to overcome something like that alone, and in that case having a spouse around who knows and is supportive can make all the difference in the world.

 

I can't even imagine the difficulty of a household where more then one person was struggling with it.  Bad enough when it's just one person struggling with the temptation.  Add someone who can easily become an enabler...

[The Folk Prophet]

So that's where prayer comes in, no doubt... but it also takes compassion from others, emotional support, friendship, etc... Because let's be honest, as powerful a tool as prayer is, it can only work as far as the person praying dedicates himself/herself to it.  That's why people often say they need more than the canned answer "pray and read Scripture."  If it were that easy, there'd never be a crisis.

 

Prayer and scripture study are only one of the tools in the arsenal of faith. Miracles, etc., do not happen by "prayer". They happen by faith. Prayer is one way of exercising faith, but it is not a completion of faith. Faith is an act of trust, determination, and obedience. It involves a full measure of best effort to do our part to whatever end we are attempting to put into effect.

 

The reason why prayer, fasting, and scripture study are recommended is because without them our faith is entirely misplaced. We MUST include these things for the atonement to be able to work on us and within us. But we cannot simply do these things and then ignore the means God has provided to practically deal with the things of life. You can't pray a house into being. You pray, you fast, you study, then you pick up the hammer and you build. Miracles come as you do so. perhaps supplies will be provided in an unexpected way, the weather may stay mild, injuries will be avoided or minor, etc., etc., but you have to actually build the house. You can't Alakazaam it into existence with "prayer".

 

Prayer, fasting, scriptures, temple attendance, things like this ARE the answers, but that's because they are part of the whole answer -- which is FAITH. The problem is the naivety in treating them like they're some kind of Harry Potter spell that magically does the work.  Complete faith involves complete commitment. That means more than kneeling down and expecting to stand up afterwards with all natural, mortal, compulsions gone for the mere praying about it.

 

As for the other means of overcoming problems, there are no pat answers. Some need therapy. Some don't. People differ as to their abilities, disciplines, motivations, strength of will, etc. But ALL need faith in God, prayer, fasting, and scripture study to overcome the natural man.

 

Edit: FYI, in case it wasn't clear -- this was meant as an expounding upon reply, not as a contrary one unixknight.

Edited January 8, 2016 by The Folk Prophet

[unixknight]

Edit: FYI, in case it wasn't clear -- this was meant as an expounding upon reply, not as a contrary one unixknight.

 

Roger that, brother... And it's a great point.  I've seen people expect a single prayer to magically whisk away all of their problems.

 

The Catholic school I attended from K-8 had a great motto:  "Through or work and efforts God makes our dreams come true."  I would expand that, in the spirit of your post, to encompass overcoming these kinds of difficulties as well. 

[Guest MormonGator]

Roger that, brother... And it's a great point.  I've seen people expect a single prayer to magically whisk away all of their problems.

 

 

 Agree totally. You and FP knocked it out of the park. Prayer helps, of course, but it's not a band aid. 

Edited January 9, 2016 by MormonGator

[Guest]

 

 

The reason why prayer, fasting, and scripture study are recommended is because without them our faith is entirely misplaced. We MUST include these things for the atonement to be able to work on us and within us. But we cannot simply do these things and then ignore the means God has provided to practically deal with the things of life. You can't pray a house into being. You pray, you fast, you study, then you pick up the hammer and you build. Miracles come as you do so. perhaps supplies will be provided in an unexpected way, the weather may stay mild, injuries will be avoided or minor, etc., etc., but you have to actually build the house. You can't Alakazaam it into existence with "prayer".

 

Prayer, fasting, scriptures, temple attendance, things like this ARE the answers, but that's because they are part of the whole answer -- which is FAITH. The problem is the naivety in treating them like they're some kind of Harry Potter spell that magically does the work.  Complete faith involves complete commitment. That means more than kneeling down and expecting to stand up afterwards with all natural, mortal, compulsions gone for the mere praying about it.

 

 

 

This really, really resonated with me, FP, and I've been thinking about it since yesterday, so thank you. It's truth and I testify of it, based on very real experiences my husband and I have had lately, especially in the last month.  Our struggle hasn't been pornography addiction, but we have struggled the last few years. The big miracle hasn't come at once, but we have seen many little providences and evidences of an aware Father. Some things have happened were pretty significant and clearly miraculous happenings from Heavenly Father, but as we've worked hard at pulling ourselves out of the hard times we're in, we have also had the unexpected supplies, calmer weather, health, strong bodies, steadier hands, daily bread, manna. . .

 

And in the process, even though it is HARD and it HURTS and it takes a long time, we can feel the work making us stronger. We have stronger faith. The path is put before us, not all at once, but a little at a time. But I get more confident every day that tomorrow I will wake up to a little more of the path ahead of me, and whatever I need to get through the day.

[JojoBag]

When I turned 39 something funny happened. My testosterone levels dropped, apparently this is the age that most males bodys start to change. When that happened I completely lost the desire to view porn, heck I thought it was sick and disgusting even. My sex life with my wife did drop a little but we are still both happy in that department. 

 

I asked myself, "Why did it take a physical change (drop in testosterone) in my body for me to get over my porn addiction?". I concluded that young males have such high testosterone and this drives them to want to reproduce (Gods plan). If physical reproduction is not possible with a female companion then the next option is to masterbate and look at porn.

 

Lets take a look at any medical ailment, acne for example. You cant pray away the pimples, you need to take medicine, eat proper foods as well as a list of other things to keep your skin protected.

 

Why then can we not have a medicine to control male testosterone levels?

The idea that physical changes in the body eliminate porn addiction, or that the body causes it is wrong. It completely eliminates the role the spirit plays in controlling our body. This is an excerpt from a book I've been writing on the subject.

 

Science and psychology have struggled to determine what causes addictions, but many scientists agree that “addiction may refer to a substance dependence…or behavioral addiction” (e.g. pornography and gambling) that do not involve drugs. Many of these scientists promote a genetic predisposition or disease theory in that something is wrong with our body (DNA, brain, or hormones) that causes addiction. The American Society of Addiction Medicine (ASAM) defines addiction principally as a “primary disease - not caused by something else, such as a psychiatric or emotional problem.” The chairman of the ASAM committee that wrote this definition of addiction stated that "addiction is not a choice.”

According to this and similar theories, the addict is genetically predisposed to the addiction due to some defect in his body that is not clearly understood. Essentially, the theory says that if it was not for the defective body (gene, hormones, or brain disorder), a person would probably not become addicted in spite of using their drug of choice. Some researchers of addiction do assert that there also is psychological conditioning.

Psychology is correct regarding the compulsions and conditioning aspect of this addiction and without question, there are physiological components to pornography addiction. The biochemicals released while looking at pornography make the addict feel incredibly good and contribute to addiction, though this is secondary to the actual driving force behind this addiction. However, there is a problem with this theory.

Calling pornography addiction a disease or that it is the result of a defective gene, or a brain disorder that eliminates free choice places the fault of the addiction totally on a person’s body. The idea is that a “normal” person can stop looking at pornography at any time. The addict cannot do this because of physiological defects beyond his control. Therefore, because pornography addiction is a disease, it gives the “diseased person” a medical vindication for his behavior, thereby putting the blame on the “defective” body. Because the Church teaches that there is “no condemnation for our doing what we could not help,” the addict would be blameless.

The main problem with this line of reasoning is that it eliminates the consequences of wrong choices by saying that the fault for the behavior is that of the body and not the spirit, because the behavior is not from freedom of choice. This would put us on the same level as animals, because they do not have moral agency. When that line of reasoning is taken one-step further, the ultimate logical conclusion must be that the addiction is actually our Heavenly Father’s fault, not the addict’s, because He created the defective body, therefore the ultimate responsibility for the addiction would be His.

In the October 1970 general conference, Elder Hartman Rector, Jr., gave a talk regarding this line of reasoning.

Sometimes we make excuses for ourselves, when we do what we should not do or fall short of what we should have done. We use such expressions as, “Oh! the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak.” With such rationalizations we insinuate that it is completely our physical body's fault that we sin. In my opinion, this is not true.

Early church leaders taught that there are “diseases of the spirit as of the body” and that “it is more difficult to understand and cure diseases of the spirit.” This is the case with pornography addiction. It is not a disease of the body, but a disease of the spirit that has some physiological manifestations.

The problem with psychology and the overwhelming majority of scientists is that they discount the spirit. It is our spirit that controls our body, not the other way around. Our mind is our spirit. If we have a personality trait that is problematic, it is the spirit that has the problem, not the body. Church leaders have taught that we brought our personalities with us from the pre-existence and continued to form them as we grew in mortality.

If you are addicted to something in this life and die, you will remain addicted to whatever it is in the next life. The problem is that your addiction will be much, much worse because you cannot satisfy the addiction without a body.

 

The spirit only can repent and change, and then the battle has to go forward with the flesh afterwards. It is much easier to overcome and serve the Lord when both flesh and spirit are combined as one. This is the time when men are more pliable and susceptible. We will find when we are dead every desire, every feeling will be greatly intensified. When clay is pliable it is much easier to change than when it gets hard and sets.

Elder Melvin J. Ballard

Three Degrees of Glory

Pgs. 13-15

Pres. Brigham Young stated that it was 100 times harder to repent in the next life. Take his statement along with Elder Ballard's statement that “every desire, every feeling will be greatly intensified” and I would say that our addictions will be 100 times worse in the spirit world.

[JojoBag]

He covered so much information that it was difficult to absorb it all.  Please utilize the website and the

tools that are available there.  Pornography is an incredibly destructive thing.  It is far too easy to access

and it is destroying lives and families around the world.  People truly do not understand just how addictive

it is.  If it becomes an addiction, it will take 2 years to over come it (the same as any other addiction).  I hope

that you will be able to get through this trying time.

 

 

It is a myth that recovery is a life time process or that it takes a specific amount of time to recover, or "once an addict, always an addict."  When I came off the drugs, I did it cold turkey.  Going through withdrawal without medical help was like taking a camping trip to hell and staying for a couple weeks to enjoy the sights.  When the withdrawal symptoms began to increase in intensity, I stayed awake for two nights walking in circles around my living room; I finally passed out for two hours later the third day.  I literally walked about ten miles during that time inside my living room.

 

Have you ever had restless leg syndrome?   It feels like big worms are crawling through the muscles of your legs.  You have to keep moving your legs to stop the sensation.  This is where the term, "kick the habit" comes from.  I had that throughout my entire body for several weeks.  I still suffer post acute withdrawal symptoms to this day.  Going through withdrawal taught me a valuable lesson:  never become addicted to drugs.  I have no desire for the stuff.

 

As for the porn addiction, it doesn't have to take two years; it doesn't have to take two days.  It all depends on how committed you are to overcoming the problem, and your knowledge and understanding of the causes behind the addiction.  I was cured of my addiction when after my bishop gave me a blessing.  When I left his office, I no longer had the desire for looking at porn.  I was left with some serious bad habits, but after four months of intensive work, those were gone, too.  I was left with a complete abhorrence of the filth that has strengthened to this day.  It does not tempt me in any way.

 

I have yet to read anything by anyone that actually understands the true causes of addiction, because all of the theories (including LDS authors) discard or discount, or don't even consider the spiritual side of addiction.  It is the spiritual side of addiction that is the key to overcoming any addiction.  The physiological side is but a small part of the problem, which is what many authors focus on.  Knowing, understanding, and gaining a testimony of the real spiritual aspects will allow anyone to get a lifelong cure of any addiction.  This is why the ARP program is spiritual based: the problem is spiritual based.

[The Folk Prophet]

and I would say that our addictions will be 100 times worse in the spirit world.

 

I've discussed this before, but how can this possibly be true when many of our addictions are physical and we won't have physical bodies?

[JojoBag]

I've discussed this before, but how can this possibly be true when many of our addictions are physical and we won't have physical bodies?

 

You don't get it.  Addictions are spiritual as well as physical.  Here are three quotes from Elder Hartman Rector, Jr., regarding addiction.

 

 

I believe it is primarily the spirit that sees, hears, feels, knows passion and desire; it is the spirit that becomes addicted to drugs, bad habits, and evil desires. It is not just the physical body that is addicted, but the spirit also, which, of course, is the real you and me. We are spirits just as God is a spirit.

 

 

The scriptures speak of the spirit world as being two different places—as paradise at one time, and as spirit prison at another time. But as a matter of fact, the spirit world is really just one place; it merely depends on the condition we are in when we go there as to what it will be for us. If we go there addicted to drugs, bad habits, or evil desires, it will be a prison.

 

 

So, we do not change just because we die. If we are addicted to drugs, bad habits, or evil desires here upon the earth, we shall be addicted to the same things in the spirit world; if we are a "pill" or a "crank" or a liar here, we will still be a "pill" or a "crank" or a liar there.

 

 

 

 

You can read his talk here.  http://scriptures.byu.edu/gettalk.php?ID=1801

[The Folk Prophet]

You don't get it.

Oh. Well then. That explains a lot. I'll keep that in mind moving forward. Doofus status acknowledged. Consider me enlightened by you're superior wisdom.

[JojoBag]

Oh. Well then. That explains a lot. I'll keep that in mind moving forward. Doofus status acknowledged. Consider me enlightened by you're superior wisdom.

 

Why not do some research?  Read the article I posted and do some more searching. 

[The Folk Prophet]

Why not do some research?  Read the article I posted and do some more searching. 

 

I refuse to discuss this with someone who's going to be so arrogant and condescending about it. If you aren't interested in my thinking on the matter and just view me as uneducated, just not intelligent enough, or having simply put no thought into the matter, then it is clear that A) you do not know me at all and B) there is absolutely no value in further discourse with you on it.