omegaseamaster75 Posted April 11, 2016 Report Share Posted April 11, 2016 This is a true story and I would like to know what others think. There is a young lady who is investigating the church. She is unmarried and has a child with her long term boyfriend. There is co-habitation off and on. She has a great desire to be baptised. The missionaries have challenged her to get married. So her BF has been to church and he is supportive of her decision to be baptised and has neutral feelings about the church. They have a wedding date set and a baptismal date set. Is there anything that would impede this young lady from getting baptised the day after her marriage? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeSellers Posted April 11, 2016 Report Share Posted April 11, 2016 25 minutes ago, omegaseamaster75 said: This is a true story and I would like to know what others think. There is a young lady who is investigating the church. She is unmarried and has a child with her long term boyfriend. There is co-habitation off and on. She has a great desire to be baptised. The missionaries have challenged her to get married. So her BF has been to church and he is supportive of her decision to be baptised and has neutral feelings about the church. They have a wedding date set and a baptismal date set. Is there anything that would impede this young lady from getting baptised the day after her marriage? I'm no expert. but that's up to the mission president, as far as I know. In most similar cases, repentance is demonstrated by the marriage. Lehi NeedleinA, Vort and Blackmarch 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeedleinA Posted April 11, 2016 Report Share Posted April 11, 2016 (edited) I agree with Lehi, the Mission Pres. is the one in charge. I personally don't see anything wrong with this proposed scenario as outlined. Edited April 11, 2016 by NeedleinA Vort 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeuroTypical Posted April 11, 2016 Report Share Posted April 11, 2016 (edited) In the various bishopric meetings I've been to, and various opinions from bishops and mission presidents and whatnot - the church rejoices when folks move out of sinful circumstances into covenantally married circumstances. In general, most of the time, unless there are very specific circumstances (like rape or abuse) we're not in the habit of urging a family to break up before a baptism. Unless there are facts not being reported here, this is a joyous thing deserving respect and support. If I were friends with them, I'd urge the bride to wear white so I could throw a pie at anyone who gave her a dirty look at her wedding. Edited April 11, 2016 by NeuroTypical NeedleinA, LeSellers and Jane_Doe 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prisonchaplain Posted April 11, 2016 Report Share Posted April 11, 2016 I'm assuming the couple have agreed to remain chaste, and not be living together, between now and the wedding, right? LeSellers 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunday21 Posted April 12, 2016 Report Share Posted April 12, 2016 The missionaries recently took me along on their loc lesson to try and persuade two young investigators to get married. We were trying to persuade them not to save for the wedding and that the ward could hold a potluck. I don't think we convinced them. Sad. They seemed very much in love but they wanted the big wedding which they could not afford. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeSellers Posted April 12, 2016 Report Share Posted April 12, 2016 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Sunday21 said: they wanted the big wedding which they could not afford. Foolishness. I'm all for establishing great memories and all, but a big wedding is all too often a catastrophe, and the money wasted on it could better be used in other ways. Not every bride is a princess. Lehi Edited April 12, 2016 by LeSellers NeedleinA and Sunday21 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunday21 Posted April 12, 2016 Report Share Posted April 12, 2016 8 minutes ago, LeSellers said: Foolishness. I'm all for establishing great memories and all, but a big wedding is all too often a catastrophe, and the money wasted on it could better be used in other ways. Not every bride is a princess. Lehi They say that there is an inverse relationship between the length of the marriage and the cost of the wedding! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prisonchaplain Posted April 12, 2016 Report Share Posted April 12, 2016 52 minutes ago, Sunday21 said: They say that there is an inverse relationship between the length of the marriage and the cost of the wedding! I really hope that is true. 21 one years and counting. If the inverse $ thing is true, we should be good for about 70 years total. :-) Sunday21, NeedleinA and Jane_Doe 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 12, 2016 Report Share Posted April 12, 2016 13 hours ago, prisonchaplain said: I'm assuming the couple have agreed to remain chaste, and not be living together, between now and the wedding, right? Not if they get married rather quickly, right? Actually, it is kinda fuzzy on that issue. @omegaseamaster75 On my mission, there was a less active man and his live-in girlfriend. He began getting reactivated. She was taking the discussions. Both my companion and the bishop of the ward were particularly spiritual men who were filled with charity. They were both counseled to get married as soon as possible. I don't think anyone said anything about staying apart before the wedding. The general attitude was that they were essentially married via common-law. But they just needed to make it official (it was not a common-law state). The bishop married them. The mission Pres gave the ok for the woman to get baptized. Two weeks later, my comp baptized her. The bishop confirmed her. It was the first time I ever felt the power of the Holy Ghost actually touch my hands. It was a very physical sensation as well as spiritual. Shortly thereafter, the bishop gave the man his restoration of temple ordinances and told him to get some garments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omegaseamaster75 Posted April 12, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 12, 2016 13 hours ago, prisonchaplain said: I'm assuming the couple have agreed to remain chaste, and not be living together, between now and the wedding, right? No, the bf is not interested in joining, although he is supportive of her joining. They also have a kid together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeSellers Posted April 12, 2016 Report Share Posted April 12, 2016 39 minutes ago, omegaseamaster75 said: No, the bf is not interested in joining, although he is supportive of her joining. They also have a kid together. Unless the "No" says they will be living together until the marriage (although the description says their cohabiting is on'n'off), this does not respond to the query. Prisonchaplain asked if they were going to continue to live together. Lehi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 12, 2016 Report Share Posted April 12, 2016 I believe Omega's implication was that since he's not joining, he sees no reason to remain chaste before the wedding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeSellers Posted April 12, 2016 Report Share Posted April 12, 2016 12 minutes ago, Carborendum said: I believe Omega's implication was that since he's not joining, he sees no reason to remain chaste before the wedding. That's how I read it, at first, but it wasn't clear. Just checking. Lehi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 12, 2016 Report Share Posted April 12, 2016 You know, this further emphasizes something that I've been wondering about. Why is it that other faiths don't make any big deal about chastity? I heard that Lutherans, as a doctrine, don't believe fornication or prostitution is a sin. So, that answers the question for them (if that was correct). But others do see these things as sins. Yet, no one seems to care. What's up with that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeuroTypical Posted April 12, 2016 Report Share Posted April 12, 2016 15 hours ago, prisonchaplain said: I'm assuming the couple have agreed to remain chaste, and not be living together, between now and the wedding, right? Chaste? Probably. Not living together? Maybe, maybe not - there is a kid - they are a family. Two people shacking up is one thing, and yeah, getting baptized would probably involve showing demonstration to living the law of chastity and living apart. But kid may change things. I mean, I don't know, I'm not there. But we can't automatically assume "Gotta live separately" is a precondition to baptism here. Sort of the main emphasis I hear emphasized, is more "hooray - they're moving closer to covenants and marriage!" and less "repent ye vile sinner and show yourself worthy for baptism". Especially when one of the two parents isn't joining the church. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jane_Doe Posted April 12, 2016 Report Share Posted April 12, 2016 1 hour ago, Carborendum said: You know, this further emphasizes something that I've been wondering about. Why is it that other faiths don't make any big deal about chastity? I heard that Lutherans, as a doctrine, don't believe fornication or prostitution is a sin. So, that answers the question for them (if that was correct). But others do see these things as sins. Yet, no one seems to care. What's up with that? Some Christian faiths do make a big deal of it, some don't. A "don't" example I've encountered was the Calvary Chapel church my MIL attends where hubby and I went to pre-marriage counseling. Their pastor openly mocked the idea of a couple staying chaste as being impossible-- and did so over the pulpit. When our counselor was told that fiancee and I were not co-habitating and not sexually involved, she openly laughed in our face "yeah right". (Despite these major negatives, overall it was a really good pre-marriage counseling program). A "do" example would be Catholics, who pre-baptism/confirmation program is a year long, and once candidates decide that they are serious about becoming Catholics, must remain caste even with thier spouse until after baptism/confirmation AND until have their marriage is made sacramental. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omegaseamaster75 Posted April 12, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 12, 2016 3 hours ago, Carborendum said: I believe Omega's implication was that since he's not joining, he sees no reason to remain chaste before the wedding. This. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prisonchaplain Posted April 12, 2016 Report Share Posted April 12, 2016 (edited) 4 hours ago, omegaseamaster75 said: No, the bf is not interested in joining, although he is supportive of her joining. They also have a kid together. I believe that in these cases nothing much might be said--especially if the couple were into their middle age, or the child was still living at home. However, I do know of cases in which younger couples, living together, were asked to find separate living arrangements, and certainly to remain chaste, until the wedding day. Concerning mixed-faith marriages...if the only issue is one partner not being interested in conversion, I would hope there would be enough respect for his/her fiancé to honor the request for chastity during the few weeks before the wedding. If that amount of patience and understanding is not there now, how's it going to work later on (tithing, raising of children, observing WoW, etc.)? Edited April 12, 2016 by prisonchaplain mordorbund 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omegaseamaster75 Posted April 12, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 12, 2016 16 minutes ago, prisonchaplain said: I believe that in these cases nothing much might be said--especially if the couple were into their middle age, or the child was still living at home. However, I do know of cases in which younger couples, living together, were asked to find separate living arrangements, and certainly to remain chaste, until the wedding day. I am of the opinion that there is nothing to say. They are a younger couple and like I said he has neutral feelings about his fiance joining the church, I know that if I were him and some goofy religion interfered with consortium with my GF my neutral feelings would no longer be neutral. 20 minutes ago, prisonchaplain said: Concerning mixed-faith marriages...if the only issue is one partner not being interested in conversion, I would hope there would be enough respect for his/her fiancé to honor the request for chastity during the few weeks before the wedding. If that amount of patience and understanding is not there now, how's it going to work later on (tithing, raising of children, observing WoW, etc.)? It's a problem and a big one, one I see often in the part of the country where I live. Many women have married outside of the faith. the issues you have pointed to cause stress and strain in the marriage. prisonchaplain 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeedleinA Posted April 12, 2016 Report Share Posted April 12, 2016 4 hours ago, Jane_Doe said: Their pastor openly mocked the idea of a couple staying chaste as being impossible-- and did so over the pulpit. When our counselor was told that fiancee and I were not co-habitating and not sexually involved, she openly laughed in our face "yeah right". Way to encourage couples and applaud there efforts to "CTR". Bummer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maureen Posted April 13, 2016 Report Share Posted April 13, 2016 13 hours ago, Carborendum said: You know, this further emphasizes something that I've been wondering about. Why is it that other faiths don't make any big deal about chastity? I heard that Lutherans, as a doctrine, don't believe fornication or prostitution is a sin. So, that answers the question for them (if that was correct). But others do see these things as sins. Yet, no one seems to care. What's up with that? I don't know about all Lutheran churches but the Evangelical Lutheran Church in Canada accepts people that are in common-law relationships into their congregations and they perform marriages for those who wish to get married after having lived together. Prostitution is put under the sexual exploitation umbrella and the ELCiC opposes all sexual exploitation. M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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