Struggling with my Feelings About Tithing

[ldsister]

TBM, born and bred, lifelong faithful tithe payer. I'm also a SAHM, and my husband and I are what you'd rate very high on the financial-responsibility spectrum: budget, avoid debt, fully insured, save money every month, have an automated Christmas savings account, drive old cars, have FLEX plans for expenses, no cable, shop at thrift stores, coupons, cook from scratch, 800+ credit scores, etc. You get the picture. 

My struggle is that I'm experiencing lots of sacrifice and pain (literally) as a result of paying tithing, and I see no blessings coming from it. When we run the numbers, which we do every payday, we see exactly what you'd expect to have happen when a family with our income gives 14% of their net income away: a family that goes without vacations, EC activities, family photos, dance, sports, piano lessons, any of the "nice stuff." That's okay. First world problems. EC activities and vacations are indulgences that no one really needs. We find other ways to develop our talents and interests. I also experience serious neck and headaches, which the doctor says I need PT for. I can't afford that, so I simply deal with the pain. 

In the past, I paid tithing with faith that we would be blessed for it. However, those blessing did not appear. As the years have passed and I've continued to pay, I've come to view tithing as the Lord's pound of flesh, the punishment you bow your head and take because someone much bigger than you says you must, and it'll just be worse for you if you don't. People speak of all these blessings they get from tithing, and I just don't see them. Our cars don't last any longer, our job situation certainly has not been better (in fact, it's arguably been worse than what you'd expect), and we have the same financial bumps and bruises as everyone else in the world. It's all been singularly non-divine. Precisely what you'd expect this situation to look like on paper: tight, hard, and sacrificial. With how extremely we budget and how financially responsible we are, I feel absolutely certain that our lives would improve dramatically if we didn't give that extra money away. I will never stop paying tithing, but I'm keenly aware of how much our family sacrifices for it, and sometimes I simply sit and cry with sadness and discouragement because I was raised to believe that it would bring blessings and, IME, it simply does not. 

Isn't there supposed to be more to this whole tithing thing? If so, how do I find it? I've already done the Sunday School answers. I've experienced no peace or divine assistance. People say that the blessings can be non-tangible, but I don't see any there either. Our emotional, marital, and physical lives are no better than average. In fact, they may be worse due the fact that we can't afford things (medical care, personal development activities) that would probably enhance our well-being. And far from my testimony being enhanced, I've become hardened and skeptical about the church's promises. I WANT to feel blessed by tithing, but given the evidence I see, I don't know how. Is there any hope? 

Edited August 26, 2016 by ldsister

[pam]

Many times the blessings we receive aren't monetary or better health.  Sometimes we can't see the blessings we are receiving.  Or at least aware of what they are.  But we are promised blessings.  I totally get what you are saying.  But hang in there.  The blessings are there.  Just not in a way that might be tangible.

[ldsister]

11 minutes ago, pam said:

Many times the blessings we receive aren't monetary or better health.  Sometimes we can't see the blessings we are receiving.  Or at least aware of what they are.  But we are promised blessings.  I totally get what you are saying.  But hang in there.  The blessings are there.  Just not in a way that might be tangible.

I've told myself this for years, but at some point, I've started to ask myself what good blessings are if there's no evidence of them. I tell myself over and over that we must be being blessed in some way, but it's like trying to believe you've been fed when you didn't taste anything and you're still starving. And it's hard when there's food RIGHT THERE and you know eating it would fill you but you're being told you musn't, musn't eat it. 

I hope I don't sound like I'm arguing. Everything I've read about this says that I SHOULD be able to witness the blessings, so why can't I? 

[pam]

No you don't sound like you are arguing.  I definitely understand the struggle with this that you are feeling.

[NeedleinA]

24 minutes ago, ldsister said:

...I just don't see them... People say that the blessings can be non-tangible, but I don't see any there either.

Perhaps a correction in your vision is actually the problem instead. What kind of lenses do you see through when you "count your many blessings"?

"When upon life's billows you are tempest-tossed, When you are discouraged, thinking all is lost, Count your many blessings; name them one by one, And it will surprise you what the Lord has done."

What blessings do you have in your life currently?

 

[Guest MormonGator]

3 minutes ago, pam said:

No you don't sound like you are arguing.  I definitely understand the struggle with this that you are feeling.

For what little it's worth, I understand your point totally OP. 

 

5 minutes ago, ldsister said:

I tell myself over and over that we must be being blessed in some way, but it's like trying to believe you've been fed when you didn't taste anything and you're still starving. 
 

I totally understand how you feel. It can be so hard to pay tithing sometimes.  

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

The best thing I can tell you is stop paying tithing because you expect a blessing. I know thats how we tend to teach it at church, but in my experience the Lord's timing is different than ours. Paying because you expect a blessing in return is causing you frustration.

So why pay tithing then? Pay it because God, who has given you literally everything asks it of you. He gives you the breath of life, He gave you this world.  Through all these things, and more...especially the Atonement, you have already been blessed more than you could ever hope to repay.

Christ gave His life for us. He suffered for us. And the crazy thing is, He doesn't even need our tithing, the payment of tithing is also for our own good.

So pay tithing because you love the Lord. Because it is some all measure of your gratitude for all that you have already been abundantly blessed with.  If you do this, you will be happier.

[Sunday21]

I know how you feel, it bites! I keep soldering on. I have drawn my line in the sand. I promised that I would obey this commandment and others...Sunday observance ouch! So I do. Do I see compensations that make these duties less onerous. Not so much. What can you do? I just keep obeying the commandments. Hopefully, it will all make sense in the next life. I tell you something though. People who do not anticipate an afterlife are pretty desperate in this life. If this life is all there is, you become paranoid and bitter very fast. This life is so unfair. How can you face all the disappointments in this life without the joy of a Heavenly Father who will make all the sacrifice worthwhile?

 

[Guest]

We sound similar in how we live. Most of our marriage we lived very comfortably, but a series of things happened that pulled the rug out from under us. Not terribly long ago, I paid our very last dollars in tithing, not knowing when we would have more money. I then went out in my car and cried until church was over. It was scary. 

I don't remember a big miraculous thing happening, but I do know that we've always had what we need. Extras? Not really (and that's so relative that it's hard to say). Healthcare? Not for years, but that's a consequence of an economy and society that begs another thread (which I will not start). But a roof over our heads, plenty of food, clothes, electricity, heat, etc., and the means to keep our cars going, and appliances either working or someone around to help when they stopped working? Yes. Help when we needed it? That one took some humility on our parts, but yes.Those blessings have been plentiful. Things certainly haven't always been convenient or easy. That just seems to be the season we're in. But we've always had enough... often just enough, but certainly enough. Looking back on the last 3 years or so, I am amazed that we've been that blessed. 

As said above, all that we have belongs to and comes from Father. He asks such a little amount back in the big picture. Thankfully hubby and I have always been in the habit of paying tithing, so it's not as huge a deal. It is a show of faith and gratitude that we established long ago, so I know that makes it a little easier on us than, say, a convert or recently reactivated person.

Anyway... I have faith that things will get better and we'll someday enjoy a life that isn't as financially straining. I know that will take some work on our part, and we're praying for guidance in figuring out how to get there again. In the meantime, I have my daily bread. I have to remember to be thankful for that. 

[omegaseamaster75]

1 hour ago, ldsister said:

My struggle is that I'm experiencing lots of sacrifice and pain (literally) as a result of paying tithing, and I see no blessings coming from it. When we run the numbers, which we do every payday, we see exactly what you'd expect to have happen when a family with our income gives 14% of their net income away: 

Why are you giving away 14%? 

10% of your increase is the mandate.  

"I" am not a believer in gross blessings vs. net blessings.

You need to pay in a way that makes you able to sleep at night I get the struggle it is a big chunck of income.....

Edited August 26, 2016 by omegaseamaster75

[ldsister]

Sorry for that blank earlier post. The forum wouldn't let me type anything else until I posted that. 

In our tax bracket, 10% of gross is 14% of net. For others, it's probably more like 20 or 30. I understand that everyone tithes differently, but I don't feel comfortable quibbling over net vs. gross. We "play it safe" and pay on gross. I don't want to go to hell over 4% of gross income. 

7 minutes ago, omegaseamaster75 said:

Why are you giving away 14%? 

10% of your increase is the mandate.  

"I" am not a believer in gross blessings vs. net blessings.

You need to pay in a way that makes you able to sleep at night I get the struggle it is a big chunck of income.....

 

[pam]

1 hour ago, ldsister said:

TBM, born and bred, lifelong faithful tithe payer. I'm also a SAHM, and my husband and I are what you'd rate very high on the financial-responsibility spectrum: budget, avoid debt, fully insured, save money every month, have an automated Christmas savings account, drive old cars, have FLEX plans for expenses, no cable, shop at thrift stores, coupons, cook from scratch, 800+ credit scores, etc. You get the picture. 

 

I don't know about anyone else, but what you stated in your first paragraph seems like an awful lot of blessings to me.  The fact that you can be a SAHM and still have what you need for the basic necessities is a HUGE blessing.

[omegaseamaster75]

3 minutes ago, ldsister said:

 I don't want to go to hell over 4% of gross income. 

 

I think that it is highly unlikely, but you did not come looking for advice on how much to pay only that you struggle with it.  

I wish I had some faith promoting story to share with you about the virtues of tithing.  

[ldsister]

1 hour ago, NeedleinA said:

Perhaps a correction in your vision is actually the problem instead. What kind of lenses do you see through when you "count your many blessings"?

"When upon life's billows you are tempest-tossed, When you are discouraged, thinking all is lost, Count your many blessings; name them one by one, And it will surprise you what the Lord has done."

What blessings do you have in your life currently?

 

I probably wasn't very clear. I don't see any blessings *as a result of paying tithing*. We--all of us, the whole world--enjoy much from God. Part of what makes me wonder is that in my observation, those blessings tend to be given more bountifully to those who do *not* tithe. Promotions go to the boss's drinking buddies, quick recoveries from job losses go the people who left the church years ago, etc. I see the greatest inner peace and health among non-tithe payers, etc. This probably only bothers me because I was always taught the exact opposite. Perhaps if I'd been raised with the acknowledgement that it is a sacrifice without mortal compensation, pure and simple, I would be less confused. 

[ldsister]

Finally, regarding the idea of tithing as an expression of thanks: We hear that a lot in the church, but when I think about it, I don't understand it. If someone gave me a dress, cutting off one-tenth of it would be an odd way of expressing my gratitude. Refusing to participate in 1/10th of a party would be an odd way of thanking the host. Throwing away 1/10th of a meal would be an odd way of thanking the cook. And it would be illogical of the giver, the host, or the cook to think that that's a good way for me to say thank you.

Could it be that although we would *like* to believe that tithing is meant to bless us, it's actually meant to break us from caring about the things of this world? That rather than somehow making things easier or more fair, it's meant to make things so not-easy and not-fair, that we are forced to get to the point where we can look all the things of this world--health, food, lack of pain, comfort--in the face, and say, "I care so little about you, that not only do I not care about how little I have, I'm going to get rid of even some of that!" Like a child who cares so little for candy that she not only doesn't care that the person next to her gets three times as much, she'll also throw her candy away as well because she just doesn't care? Perhaps that's where I need to get--the point where I can say, "I don't care that my kids don't have birthday parties or that I have chronic, untreated pain. I simply don't care about the things of this world." Could that be the answer? 

Edited August 26, 2016 by ldsister

[omegaseamaster75]

I think you are misidentifying the blessings

5 minutes ago, ldsister said:

Promotions go to the boss's drinking buddies, 

Not tithing related, how could it be. God is not going to visit your husbands boss and tell him to give your husband a promotion. Your husband needs to hustle and build a relationship with his boss if he wants it, he could pay 20% and it won't change his ladder climbing abiliteis he has to do that.

6 minutes ago, ldsister said:

quick recoveries from job losses go the people who left the church years ago

Not tithing related, recovery from job loss has more to do with job market, social skills, marketability, education, personal connections, hustle, and a little bit of luck

7 minutes ago, ldsister said:

 I see the greatest inner peace and health among non-tithe payers, etc. 

You don't know this, how could you know what goes on behind closed doors?

8 minutes ago, ldsister said:

I don't see any blessings *as a result of paying tithing*. 

I think that you need to reevaluate what blessings you are seeking.

[pam]

5 minutes ago, ldsister said:

Finally, regarding the idea of tithing as an expression of thanks: We hear that a lot in the church, but when I think about it, I don't understand it. If someone gave me a dress, cutting off one-tenth of it would be an odd way of expressing my gratitude. Refusing to participate in 1/10th of a party would be an odd way of thanking the host. Throwing away 1/10th of a meal would be an odd way of thanking the cook. 

Could it be that although we would *like* to believe that tithing is meant to bless us, it's actually mean to break us from caring about the things of this world? That rather than somehow making things easier or more fair, it's meant to make things so not-easy and not-fair, that we can look all the things of this world--health, food, lack of pain, comfort--in the face, and say, "I care so little about you, that not only do I not care about how little I have, I'm going to get rid of even some of that!" Like a child who cares so little for candy that she not only doesn't care that the person next to her gets three times as much, she'll give that person her candy as well because she just doesn't care? Perhaps that's where I need to get--the point where I can say, "I don't care that my kids don't have birthday parties or that I have chronic, untreated pain. I simply don't care about the things of this world." Could that be the answer? 

I think we all have different ideas of what tithing should and does mean to us.

[pam]

*Putting on admin hat*

Let us all remember the rules of this particular forum as stated in the description.

No judgement, demeaning or derogatory posts allowed: "To the wounded and the weary / I would show a gentle heart." Focus on the positives, the pure love of Christ, and how we can rise above to overcome difficult times.

[ldsister]

6 minutes ago, omegaseamaster75 said:

I think you are misidentifying the blessings

Not tithing related, how could it be. God is not going to visit your husbands boss and tell him to give your husband a promotion. Your husband needs to hustle and build a relationship with his boss if he wants it, he could pay 20% and it won't change his ladder climbing abiliteis he has to do that.

Not tithing related, recovery from job loss has more to do with job market, social skills, marketability, education, personal connections, hustle, and a little bit of luck

You don't know this, how could you know what goes on behind closed doors?

I think that you need to reevaluate what blessings you are seeking.

I can see what you're saying. I should have been clear. My husband *had* done all those things, and he was the one everyone thought was going to get the promotion because he was, at least as far as everyone involved could tell, the best one for the job. The big, mysterious surprise was that he didn't. 

And again, the job loss thing *seems* a little tithing related because the people who got laid off and never recovered got laid off from the church. Of course, the church as an employer isn't the same thing as God's will, but it's hard to uncouple the two. 

I'm not blaming God. It's just that those types of things are confusing to one who's been taught that tithing brings blessings. 

Edited August 26, 2016 by ldsister

[omegaseamaster75]

5 minutes ago, ldsister said:

I can see what you're saying. I should have been clear. My husband *had* done all those things, and he was the one everyone thought was going to get the promotion because he was, at least as far as everyone involved could tell, the best one for the job. The big, mysterious surprise was that he didn't. 

Sounds like he needs to start looking for another job, I know I would if I was passed up like that

[Guest]

17 minutes ago, pam said:

I don't know about anyone else, but what you stated in your first paragraph seems like an awful lot of blessings to me.  The fact that you can be a SAHM and still have what you need for the basic necessities is a HUGE blessing.

That's what I was going to say. Plus, being able to stay out of debt and accrue some savings, I'd say you're doing pretty well.

I happen to know a couple who seems to have all the "extras". She's a SAHM. They dress nice and belong to a gym. Nice cars, kids in lots of activities, nice dates out every week, etc. The truth of it is, they're up to their eyeballs in debt and have no credit, and frequently have to beg parents, church, whomever for whatever help they'll give. Now they're in a position of trying to find a place they can afford, because their landlord is selling the house and they aren't in a position to buy. Rent prices are pretty high compared to mortgages here. So they've put themselves in a position of never having any leverage to be more independent or prosperous.

I'd much rather be in your shoes, or mine.

[NeedleinA]

21 minutes ago, ldsister said:

Perhaps if I'd been raised with the acknowledgement that it is a sacrifice without mortal compensation, pure and simple, I would be less confused. 

I fully believe the blessings of paying tithing do in fact come in this life. Sure some will/may come later in the next life, but there are tons of blessings here and now for us.
Perhaps the circle of people you are comparing your life too is too limited OR perhaps the fact that you appear to be comparing your life to lives of others around you. I would suggest, stop worrying about what others have or how fast they excel, etc. You seem to be counting "others" blessings rather than your own.

What blessings do you have? Would you trade those blessings for an extra $8k-$10k (random figures) in your pocket?

 

Edited August 26, 2016 by NeedleinA

[ldsister]

6 minutes ago, omegaseamaster75 said:

Sounds like he needs to start looking for another job, I know I would if I was passed up like that

You're correct. He did move on to something else. 

Edited August 26, 2016 by ldsister

[ldsister]

10 minutes ago, Eowyn said:

That's what I was going to say. Plus, being able to stay out of debt and accrue some savings, I'd say you're doing pretty well.

I happen to know a couple who seems to have all the "extras". She's a SAHM. They dress nice and belong to a gym. Nice cars, kids in lots of activities, nice dates out every week, etc. The truth of it is, they're up to their eyeballs in debt and have no credit, and frequently have to beg parents, church, whomever for whatever help they'll give. Now they're in a position of trying to find a place they can afford, because their landlord is selling the house and they aren't in a position to buy. Rent prices are pretty high compared to mortgages here. So they've put themselves in a position of never having any leverage to be more independent or prosperous.

I'd much rather be in your shoes, or mine.

Yes. Those are blessings, but they don't seem to come from tithing. They seem to come from living in accordance with economic principles. Perhaps that's just pride on my part. Or an overly literal, logical brain. I've witnessed some situations where I analyze it and say, "that's God," and others where I examine it and say, "That's math. Anyone, tithed or not, would have had the same outcome." It seems like our situation always seems to fall into the math category, when I'm hoping for a bit more divine intervention.

Being so aware of money, I feel like I have a pretty good grasp on what outcomes one can expect given certain inputs, and I feel like ours is pretty well right on the spreadsheet. Thinking about it, I realize that what I was expecting my outcome to be was x+divine intervention, what I see is others enjoying x, and what I'm getting is x-y. I need to just learn to accept that. That's what the outcome will be.

I think I simply need to care less about whether the kids get piano lessons or school photos. I do think that would help. 

Edited August 26, 2016 by ldsister

[Guest MormonGator]

7 minutes ago, ldsister said:

Yes. Those are blessings, but they don't seem to come from tithing. They seem to come from living in accordance with economic principles. Perhaps that's just pride on my part. Or an overly literal, logical brain. I've witnessed some situations where I analyze it and say, "that's God," and others where I examine it and say, "That's math. Anyone, tithed or not, would have had the same outcome." It seems like our situation always seems to fall into the math category, when I'm hoping for a bit more divine intervention.

Oh well. Perhaps I simply need to care less about whether the kids get piano lessons or school photos. I do think that would help. 

Just from the tone of your posts I get the feeling that you truly care about your family. That's so wonderful to see.