Occasional reminder: GMOs are good for you.

[NeuroTypical]

3 hours ago, Jojo Bags said:

You sound like a rep from Monsanto. 

I'm noticing two things from Jojo now.

1 - No links or backup to the various claims made.  Other folks are posting links to reputable organizations like mad - Jojo just continues to assert.  And post gross pictures of mice.  Oh - and one link to a CBS news article.  Jojo, I'm not impressed with your ability/willingness to back up your claims.  In internet speak, you are losing.

2- The fun little "You sound like a rep from Monsanto" smear.  Getting personal - accusing people of being disingenuous - this is a common tactic from people who don't know what the crap they're talking about.  It's an especially common tactic in anti-GMO circles, so much that the interwebs is full of counter-snark.

  

[NeuroTypical]

Oh - and we're on to you, anatess2.  So, exactly how much does Monsanto pay you to lie on the interwebs?

[Guest]

Speaking of superfood... You know the one food that has made me feel really refreshed and full of energy more than any other?  No, not kim chee.  

V-8.  Yup.  

The family was on vacation.  I had to stay home and do the bachelor thing for a week.  I went to the store to get some food.  I realized that I didn't want to buy a big bunch of vegetables.  Nor did I want to cook much.  So, as I was going to get some Powerade (I knew I'd be doing a bunch of manual labor when remodeling my kitchen while they were gone).  In the same aisle, there was the V-8.  I thought, "easy way to get my vitamins".  And there was the spicy V-8.  So I got a couple bottles.

I drank one 64 oz bottle every day that week.  Boy!  did I feel good.  Do I know that it was the V-8 that made me feel that way?  Maybe not.  But I sure felt good that week even though I was doing a lot of manual labor.

Edited September 23, 2016 by Guest

[estradling75]

GMO or Genetically Modified Organism  is a "scary" word.  (Or people would like you to think it is)

But lets look at what is GMO...You have a father... he donates part of his Genetic Code... you have a Mother who also donated part of her Genetic Code... these donations get mixed together to create a child that is you. This child is a GMO.  An UnGM child we have a different name for... they are called Clones.  Clones are Genetically Unmodified Organisms.

 

This means I am a GMO.  This means JoJoBags is a GMO, this means NeuroTypical is a GMO, this means Anatess is a GMO, this means... well I think you get the idea.  The simple fact is the the Human Race survives because it can make Genetically Modified Human begins.  And it has been doing it for a very long time.

So we can see that anyone that declares that ALL GMO are bad are either ignorant about what they are talking about... or they are being fundamentally dishonest, or they are too emotional to communicate what they really mean clearly.  None of these make for a good discussion.

That being said...  Our history also show that sometimes these Modifications don't always turn out so well.  Our medical journals have many examples of poor babies, kids, and adults who have to deal with Modifications that are disabling, disruptive, harmful, and/or sometimes even toxic.

Therefore we can see that anyone that declares that ALL GMO are good are either ignorant about what they are talking about... or they are being fundamentally dishonest, or they are too emotional to communicate what them really mean clearly. None of these make for a good discussion either.

Because it can be Good and/or Bad... means we need to have serious discussions and investigations about what and how we are Modifying.  Such discussions are hampered by who have already staked out a position at the extreme ends

 

 

 

Edited September 23, 2016 by estradling75

[NeuroTypical]

Handy graph that summarizes various ways to genetically modify stuff.  Yes indeed, lots of it uses big scary words and frightening methods - but I've noticed the amount of scary and frightening is directly correlated with the amount of information one possesses about the various techniques.  Basically, the more I learn about this stuff, the less scared I become.

From where I'm standing, learning is far, far superior to looking at gross pictures of misshapen mice.

 

Edited September 23, 2016 by NeuroTypical

[mordorbund]

13 hours ago, NeuroTypical said:

 Other folks are posting links to reputable organizations like mad

I don't know that I would call MAD "reputable".

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, mordorbund said:

I don't know that I would call MAD "reputable".

What are you talking about.  The Spy vs Spy documentary was invaluable for us winning the Cold War.

[Guest MormonGator]

15 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

What are you talking about.  The Spy vs Spy documentary was invaluable for us winning the Cold War.

Written by the usual gang of idiots. I loved that magazine. 

[estradling75]

6 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

Handy graph that summarizes various ways to genetically modify stuff.  Yes indeed, lots of it uses big scary words and frightening methods - but I've noticed the amount of scary and frightening is directly correlated with the amount of information one possesses about the various techniques.  Basically, the more I learn about this stuff, the less scared I become.

From where I'm standing, learning is far, far superior to looking at gross pictures of misshapen mice.

I am more concerned about what I would call the "Roman Lead Problem"

We know that ingesting Lead can lead to all kinds of problems down the road.  This is why we removed Lead from our plumbing, we removed Lead from our paints, (if you buy an older house you will likely have to sign a Lead paint discloser/warning) we removed Lead from our Gas, etc.. etc... we did this once we could prove the danger.  The problem was that for a long time we could not prove the danger, and when it became suspect there were a lot of vested interest that fought against it.  How many were hurt due to simply not knowing, how many were hurt while it was being fought and debated?

The Romans used Lead for lots of things and never knew the danger.  They were not stupid people, they did not set out to poison themselves, but poison themselves they did.

I don't think that any organization that is looking to make a profit is going to set out to poison or hurt people, and anything that they make that does that is quickly detectable is simply going to be non profitable.  But I do think it is possible that they might make something that doesn't show up quickly, that might be hard to trace, and by the time we suspect it lots of people could be hurt, by the time we fight through the vested interests to get consensus even more will be.

Which is why the discussion and debate on the subject needs to remain healthy and robust without polarizing into one extreme or the other.

 

 

[zil]

26 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

Spy vs Spy

Ah, that was one of my favorite t-shirts ever.

[NightSG]

18 hours ago, anatess2 said:

After all... you drink a boatload of water in a day, you will die.  Doesn't mean water is bad for you.

If you inhale just a few ounces it will kill you.

Personally, I tend to avoid the whole GMO crop thing by eating local grass fed meats.

[Guest MormonGator]

@NightSG-That explains why you didn't join my group "LDS vegetarians" on Facebook? 

[Guest]

My wife tends to listen to the same people as Jojo does, bless their hearts.  She's pursuing this for a slightly different reason.  I'm trying to be the dutiful husband and support her anyway.  I figure all it can do is hurt my pocketbook.  And it does hurt.

[NeuroTypical]

Well, to be sure, you can totally shun all things non-organic, and eat pretty dang well.  There is some pretty tasty organic stuff out there.  So it's not like your wife is doing anything harmful or hurtful.  Like my wife's old high-school friend who ate some weird vegan diet and ended up with a low birthweight baby with health complications.  Or the friend of a lady I worked with who did an "all carrot" diet, and turned orange. 

Plus, as the organic movement gains ground, more and more businesses are jumping on the bandwagon:

 

It's mainly a 1st world-only issue - associating a portion of our character with the types of plentiful foods we refuse to eat. 

[zil]

11 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

...

 

It's mainly a 1st world-only issue - ...

Speaking of first-world problems, it's a really good thing I'm lazy, cuz otherwise, I'd have to go get myself some Oreos and vanilla ice cream now - thanks, bunches, Neuro!

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

Well, to be sure, you can totally shun all things non-organic, and eat pretty dang well.  There is some pretty tasty organic stuff out there.  So it's not like your wife is doing anything harmful or hurtful.  Like my wife's old high-school friend who ate some weird vegan diet and ended up with a low birthweight baby with health complications.  Or the friend of a lady I worked with who did an "all carrot" diet, and turned orange. 

Plus, as the organic movement gains ground, more and more businesses are jumping on the bandwagon:

 

It's mainly a 1st world-only issue - associating a portion of our character with the types of plentiful foods we refuse to eat. 

Organic Oreo "white stuff" is like "healthy cigarettes".  I don't think anyone eating an Oreo is really concerned about their health at the time.

Edited September 23, 2016 by Guest

[zil]

4 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

Oreo "white stuff"

== Crisco + Sugar

..but let's not dwell on that, OK?  Just bring me some in vanilla ice cream and we'll pretend like this thread never happened.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, zil said:

== Crisco + Sugar

..but let's not dwell on that, OK?  Just bring me some in vanilla ice cream and we'll pretend like this thread never happened.

Organic Vanilla? with milk from grass fed cows?

Edited September 23, 2016 by Guest

[zil]

5 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

Organic Vanilla? with milk from grass fed cows?

Sure, fine, whatever.  Breyers, was it?  That'll do.

[unixknight]

On 9/21/2016 at 4:49 PM, MormonGator said:

I see more anti-GMO thought from the left because they don't like corporations in general. The anti-vax sentiment certainly comes from both sides. The right tends to see vaccines as a government conspiracy. 

I would venture to say for most right wing folks it's not so much about a government conspiracy as it is a matter of resisting invasive laws that start to interfere with personal medical decisions.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, zil said:

Breyers, was it?

You remembered.  I'm impressed.

[Guest MormonGator]

6 minutes ago, unixknight said:

I would venture to say for most right wing folks it's not so much about a government conspiracy as it is a matter of resisting invasive laws that start to interfere with personal medical decisions.

Very true! 

[zil]

29 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

Very true! 

Meanwhile, you're needed in another thread - a spy seems to have smuggled out pictures of the compound....

[Just_A_Guy]

4 hours ago, estradling75 said:

. . . we removed Lead from our Gas, etc.. etc... we did this once we could prove the danger. 

Slight tangent, but . . . there's a pretty nasty story behind getting the lead out of gasoline involving a decades-long misinformation campaign by DuPont, which manufactured the gas additive (Wikipedia summary here) and wasn't particularly bothered by the fact that people who worked in their factories had a curious habit of turning up dead.  Bill Bryson goes into this drama in his A Short History of Nearly Everything.  Even Thomas Midgley, the guy who developed lead additives (technically Tetraethyllead, or TEL) and spent most of its life championing its use in gasoline, tried to avoid it when he could (though he did at one point, in a PR stunt, poured the substance all over his hands and inhaled it for sixty seconds).  Nonetheless, DuPont spent years making life absolutely miserable for those scientists who tried to sound any sort of alarm.

Midgley's other legacy, by the way, was pioneering the use of CFCs.

Edited September 23, 2016 by Just_A_Guy

[estradling75]

8 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

Slight tangent, but . . . there's a pretty nasty story behind getting the lead out of gasoline involving a decades-long misinformation campaign by DuPont, which manufactured the gas additive (Wikipedia summary here).  Bill Bryson goes into this drama in his A Short History of Nearly Everything.  Not only did TEL's biggest promoter, Thomas Midgley (who once poured the substance all over his hands and inhaled it for sixty seconds during the course of a PR stunt) never go near the stuff if he could avoid it; but he and DuPont made life absolutely miserable for those scientists who dared to suggest that it was unsafe. 

I am aware... which is why I am against those that try using scare tactics, and demonizing of people/groups no matter what side of the argument they come from.