A problem with milk before meat

[Guest]

An example of meat would be the Adam-God doctrine Brigham Young introduced to the temple endowment and wasn't renounced until Spencer W Kimball. Which prophet do we believe?

[Guest MormonGator]

7 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

Fantastic!  Hey, even if you don't learn anything from them-- did you give them and new angle and teach them something new?

Apparently so. I still have people talk about a lesson I gave a few months ago and ask when I'm going to do it again, so that's a plus.

[Jane_Doe]

18 minutes ago, Zarahemla said:

An example of meat would be the Adam-God doctrine Brigham Young introduced to the temple endowment and wasn't renounced until Spencer W Kimball. Which prophet do we believe?

(Warning, very blunt answer below)

Go study what revelation is, how it is received, or what it is to be a prophet.  You will find that this question resolves itself.

Edited September 28, 2016 by Jane_Doe

[Anddenex]

32 minutes ago, Zarahemla said:

An example of meat would be the Adam-God doctrine Brigham Young introduced to the temple endowment and wasn't renounced until Spencer W Kimball. Which prophet do we believe?

The Adam-God theory isn't doctrine, never was, although some people (i.e. Brigham Young) believe it. Joseph Fielding Smith (might actually be his father) has an interesting perspective regarding the Adam-God theory (again, never doctrine. Joseph Smith in his teaching shared some interesting thoughts, some which weren't doctrine -- not meat). This isn't meat. An example of meat would be learning more about Heavenly Mother (an actual revealed truth). An example of meat would be the study of our "intelligences (revealed truth)." Meat = the statement "eternal lives" and exactly what does this mean now and after the resurrection (revealed truths). Another example of meat and simple truths is the Atonement -- for further understanding and more enlightenment, I have already shared Moses 6:60, begin studying the principles and let God teach you through the Spirit of truth. 

It appears what you are referring to is not "meat" of the gospel but actual statements made by previous prophets, or history, which the Church is now more addressing to help those who might be struggling with aspects of their personal faith. If so, then the Church is already doing what they should, and in an address to Harvard Law students, Elder Holland mentioned the Church could do better, which is why the Church is now coming out with more options to learn, rather than anti-Mormon literature. 

It is helpful to know the difference. 

[estradling75]

47 minutes ago, Zarahemla said:

 Which prophet do we believe?

A question answered if one has understood the milk that the church currently teaches

[Guest]

Is it just me?  Or does there seem to be disagreement on the definition of "meat"?

[Colirio]

Are we, as members of Christ's church with the gift of the Holy Ghost, not entitled to receive revelations just like the prophets and apostles? 

 

Who was giving Moses meat? Who gives President Monson meat? 

 

Are the channels of revelation from that same God from which they receive instruction not open in our lives? 

 

If not, then I suggest we start drinking that milk with a little more repentance juice stirred in until the channels are fully open. 

 

This is applies to me, too btw. I should probably start taking a repentance multivitamin.....

[zil]

15 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

Is it just me?  Or does there seem to be disagreement on the definition of "meat"?

Yes, there appear to be multiple definitions of meat, not all of them matching the meaning I've always attributed to the scripture in question...

[Guest]

These are the references in scriptures that give hints as to the definitions per apostles & prophets:

Quote

 1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.

 2 I have fed you with ^amilk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.

 3 For ye are yet ^acarnal: for whereas there is among you^benvying, and ^cstrife, and ^ddivisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

2 Cor 3

 

Quote

 21 And I command you that you ^apreach naught but repentance, and show ^bnot these things unto the world until it is wisdom in me.

 22 For they cannot ^abear meat now, but ^bmilk they must receive; wherefore, they must not know these things, lest they perish.

D&C 19

 

Quote

 11 Of whom we have many things to say, and ^ahard to be^buttered, seeing ye are dull of ^chearing.

 12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of^amilk, and not of strong meat.

 13 For every one that useth ^amilk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.

 14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age,even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil

This is a modern exposition on it.

Quote

https://www.lds.org/general-conference/1984/04/feed-my-sheep?lang=eng

This is very different than talking about basic doctrines vs. deep doctrines that is being discussed here.  That is a completely different discussion.

Edited September 28, 2016 by Guest

[Guest]

If the Adam-God doctrine wasn't doctrine, why was it a part of the temple endowment ceremony for so long?

[Guest]

Why does the church have to be so confusing and secretive of the meat?

[Jane_Doe]

8 minutes ago, Zarahemla said:

Why does the church have to be so confusing and secretive of the meat?

It doesn't.

Advance topics (aka meat) are easily understood once one properly covers the basics.  They are only confusing if the basics are not understood.  Which is why the basics are taught first.  Nothing is secret.  

[Jojo Bags]

4 hours ago, MormonGator said:

Maybe it's because they've been treated like babies for so long they begin to expect/act like it.

Is your opinion of the brothers and sisters really that low? 

When I hear the men in Elder's Quorum go on and on about hunting or sports like it is more important that breathing and takes up 15 minutes of priesthood, or when I see every Sunday a number of members, including the bishop's wife texting or playing games on their tablet computers, when I hear obvious false doctrine being spouted in Sunday school and priesthood, when I hear and see constant lip service paid to Gospel principles, when there is obvious selective "charity" only to their friends, when I see blatant immodesty among both the men and women, then yes, I don't have a very high opinion of some LDS.  In no way do I think I'm better than them, but it is very disheartening to see these things and then hear them claim like several men did in priesthood last Sunday that they are full of charity and they bear one another's burdens.

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

It doesn't.

Advance topics (aka meat) are easily understood once one properly covers the basics.  They are only confusing if the basics are not understood.  Which is why the basics are taught first.  Nothing is secret.  

The 2nd anointing is secret.

[Guest MormonGator]

13 minutes ago, Jojo Bags said:

  In no way do I think I'm better than them,

Oh.  Because after reading your post one might get that impression. 

Edited September 28, 2016 by MormonGator

[Jane_Doe]

11 minutes ago, Zarahemla said:

The 2nd anointing is secret.

Nope.

It is however, a very advance topic that requires intense study of the basics and medium topics before it can be approached in any profitable manner.  

Edited September 28, 2016 by Jane_Doe

[estradling75]

37 minutes ago, Zarahemla said:

The 2nd anointing is secret.

Yes...  its so secret that we are sitting here talking about it...

 

Ohh  wait that is the exact opposite of secret

Edited September 28, 2016 by estradling75

[Anddenex]

1 hour ago, Zarahemla said:

If the Adam-God doctrine wasn't doctrine, why was it a part of the temple endowment ceremony for so long?

This is why "milk" is constantly, repetitively taught, so that we may understand the differences between "doctrine," "personal opinion," and decisions made by general authorities in our past. If this is a struggle for you Zarahemla, here are a few good articles on this subject for you to ponder:

1) http://en.fairmormon.org/Mormonism_and_temples/Endowment/Adam-God_and_the_"Lecture_at_the_Veil"
2) http://en.fairmormon.org/Mormonism_and_temples/Endowment/Changes
3} http://en.fairmormon.org/Mormonism_and_doctrine/Repudiated_concepts/Adam-God_theory

As you will learn quickly, when you attend the temple (if you haven't already), not everything in the temple ceremony (endowment) is doctrine. As to the sacred nature of the temple, these things are not discussed here because they are secret; they are sacred.

1 hour ago, Zarahemla said:

Why does the church have to be so confusing and secretive of the meat? The 2nd anointing is secret.

This is an important difference to note: secret vs. sacred. Secret is what anti-Mormons like to use when referring to sacred doctrines, ordinances, or ceremonies which are not open to "public" scrutiny -- and rightfully so. Meat is not secret. Meat is sacred. Revelation from God, when he reveals something to us personally, is sacred not secretive. The notion follows what the Lord said in specifying, "Do not cast your pearls before swine."

The second anointing is an ordinance that there isn't much information. In some circles, and as to my knowledge, this also refers to a washing and anointing of feet. This again is not secretive, it is sacred. This is also important to understand and know the difference. People who have had the veil rent, and have had the Lord visit them, this is not something a person goes around with boasting and loud mouth to the world, not because it is secret. It is a sacred experience. God does nothing in secret. He keeps sacred what is sacred. There is no dark corner the Lord, or our Father in heaven hides. All truths are open to all, if they seek them, and if they seek them they should then understand what is sacred, not secret, and then as we study we begin to realize meat is often not shared in a similar vein of Nephi's words, paraphrased, "The Lord forbids me, or I am constrained by the spirit not write." I have had this experience while writing in my journal. A truth was revealed and as I began to write the truth, I was constrained not to write anymore. The subject matter was for my mind, my experience. It is sacred, not secret.

Edited September 28, 2016 by Anddenex

[Guest]

6 hours ago, Jane_Doe said:

It doesn't.

Advance topics (aka meat) are easily understood once one properly covers the basics.  They are only confusing if the basics are not understood.  Which is why the basics are taught first.  Nothing is secret.  

It seems strange to me that with temporal topics like, say advanced math or science, people easily recognize that they have to take years of study of lower level understanding before they can tackle the hard stuff.  But for some reason they believe the things of God (the deeper things of which are clearly beyond our understanding) should be taught all at once and they should easily be able to understand it.

Yup.  That makes a lot of sense.

[Guest]

7 hours ago, Zarahemla said:

If the Adam-God doctrine wasn't doctrine, why was it a part of the temple endowment ceremony for so long?

7 hours ago, Zarahemla said:

Why does the church have to be so confusing and secretive of the meat?

6 hours ago, Zarahemla said:

The 2nd anointing is secret.

Zarahemla,

I really have been trying to be nicer to you since our initial encounter.  But when you start drinking the anti-Mormon cool-aid, it becomes very difficult to think well of you.

Have you considered that maybe you're digging into this sort of thing because of your personal issues rather than an honest search for the truth?  Because I gotta tell ya, what you've just posted here ain't the truth.

 

 

[Sunday21]

15 hours ago, MormonGator said:

No worries @Jane_Doe, we do that. Eventually though you can only do so much. Believe me, I would love to have them listen to me. I've been told many, many times that I make the classes fun and entertaining. I've had brothers and sisters come up to me and ask if I could teach every week. 

Aside from being handsome, humble, rich and intelligent apparently I'm a good teacher too! 

I haven't read to the end of the thread but I do have a suggestion. In a tiny ward that I used to live in, a married couple set up a study group. It was 2 or 3 members who had a small group in which they discussed gospel topics. Heck you could do this on mormonhub.

Think about the various people in your ward: the young mother. What would be the perfect church gathering for her? One where she gets a nap?

the 20 year old? Something with an electronic game?

the 80 year old widow? Something based on gospel testimony stories?

we are geographically based. All these different types of people need to get along with each other. Perhaps it is special training for eternity.

my hometeacher has confessed that he spends his time looking for deep doctrine because he finds applying the gospel principles to his life to be too depressing.

are you bored because you have stopped trying to apply the principles to your life?

i find trying to be successful in my profession and to simultaneously live gospel principles to be ...quite the challenge!

it seems simpler to do one or the other, both at the same time, not so easy! 

[Edspringer]

I'm so greatful that the Lord has been merciful allowing me to learn, remember and think over and over on the same principles and doctrines. I'm so deeply grateful to our Heavenly Father for His kindness in helping us understand new things out of old teachings. 

I have a personal testimony that I'll spend my lifetime trying to understand faith and yet I won't be able to learn all about it. I feel comfortable about knowing that I will be taught about faith my whole life. Why? Well, I havent' learned how to use faith to move mountains yet! Maybe some of us already know how to use faith in a particular area, but still need to learn how to use faith in other areas. 

I remember Elder David A. Bednar saying something about going to lesson B only after learning lesson A. Please check this link:

https://www.lds.org/church/news/repetition-important-in-teaching-and-learning-elder-bednar-says?lang=eng

Repetition seems to be one of the manners God teaches His children. We are awlays called to REMEMBER!

Edited September 29, 2016 by Edspringer
add information

[NightSG]

46 minutes ago, Edspringer said:

Well, I havent' learned how to use faith to move mountains yet!

And yet, in just a couple of years, you could learn to use heavy equipment and explosives to do just that.  Maybe we should look at their teaching methods.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Edspringer said:

Repetition seems to be one of the manners God teaches His children. We are awlays called to REMEMBER!

The 5th of November.

Edited September 29, 2016 by Guest

[Guest]

12 hours ago, Carborendum said:

Zarahemla,

I really have been trying to be nicer to you since our initial encounter.  But when you start drinking the anti-Mormon cool-aid, it becomes very difficult to think well of you.

Have you considered that maybe you're digging into this sort of thing because of your personal issues rather than an honest search for the truth?  Because I gotta tell ya, what you've just posted here ain't the truth.

 

 

What that I posted isn't the truth?