anatess2 Posted October 11, 2016 Report Share Posted October 11, 2016 30 minutes ago, Carborendum said: The American Populace elected Obama over Romney. Why does anyone have any faith that they will vote for Trump over Clinton? Well, as this thread shows... a bunch of Mormons won't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
estradling75 Posted October 11, 2016 Report Share Posted October 11, 2016 16 minutes ago, anatess2 said: Well, as this thread shows... a bunch of Mormons won't. Because alot of Mormon understand that the council to vote for the whom they think is the "Best Candidate" does not mean "the one they think most likely to win" Nor do they take it to mean the "Best Candidate of the two parties"... But they take it to mean the Best Candidate no matter what they think of the candidates odds of winning. Jojo Bags and Just_A_Guy 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anatess2 Posted October 11, 2016 Report Share Posted October 11, 2016 51 minutes ago, estradling75 said: Because alot of Mormon understand that the council to vote for the whom they think is the "Best Candidate" does not mean "the one they think most likely to win" Nor do they take it to mean the "Best Candidate of the two parties"... But they take it to mean the Best Candidate no matter what they think of the candidates odds of winning. So? How is Johnson best? How is McMullin best? How is Stein best? Hopefully you're not saying Mormons think Clinton is best... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yjacket Posted October 11, 2016 Report Share Posted October 11, 2016 10 hours ago, Jojo Bags said: Who cares about the video. The idiot Americans elected a rapist to the WH twice and a socialist twice. Now the single most corrupt politician to ever seek the office of president is supposedly supported by a majority of know nothing, low information, plainly ignorant voters. The released Wikileaks emails of Hillary show a continuous pattern of crime and corruption, and that she used the State Department for personal gain. She is a typical Gadianton, supported by other Gadiantons. Trump is a boy scout compared to Hillary and her rapist husband. Preach on brother! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Cotrell Posted October 11, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 11, 2016 (edited) The problem with a multi-party system is that it is quite likely that a minority of people will pick the president for the rest of us. Let's say there's three parties: A, B, C, and D. A gets 25% of the vote, B gets 30%, C gets 20%, and D gets 25%. B becomes president even though less than a third of people wanted him. This is why it's best to have two parties, like Republicans and Democrats. Thankfully America is this way. However, if we were all forced to pick between Trump and Hillary, it would be better because Johnson is taking around 9% and Stein around 2%. The other 35,000,000 people (if everyone voted) could make a big difference. It would be a more accurate election. In any case, with many jumping ship on the Republican party, there's a push for a multi-party system. This would not work in America. Edited October 11, 2016 by Larry Cotrell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MormonGator Posted October 11, 2016 Report Share Posted October 11, 2016 (edited) 11 hours ago, Jojo Bags said: Who cares about the video. The idiot Americans elected a rapist to the WH twice and a socialist twice. Now the single most corrupt politician to ever seek the office of president is supposedly supported by a majority of know nothing, low information, plainly ignorant voters. The released Wikileaks emails of Hillary show a continuous pattern of crime and corruption, and that she used the State Department for personal gain. She is a typical Gadianton, supported by other Gadiantons. Trump is a boy scout compared to Hillary and her rapist husband. Idiot Americans, huh? Charming. Classy thing to call people. One of the signs of a mature, thinking person is 1) not calling those they disagree with names and 2) realizing that you can be intelligent, reasonable and :: gasp :: have different political/religious views. If there are LDS liberals reading this: We (LDS conservative/libertarians like me) are not all like this. We don't use name calling to those we disagree with and we accept you as wonderful Americans/LDS whom we love. Edited October 11, 2016 by MormonGator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Cotrell Posted October 11, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 11, 2016 9 minutes ago, MormonGator said: One of the signs of a mature, thinking person is 1) not calling those they disagree with names and 2) realizing that you can be intelligent, reasonable and :: gasp :: have different political/religious views. 22 hours ago, MormonGator said: Exactly. What you need to remember though (and this is crucial) is that Trumpers are suffering from a psychological flaw. Like an alcoholic who you say has a drinking problem, they (Trumpers) simply can't understand or listen to even the most well reasoned anti-Trump argument. It's not their fault, they really don't know any better. Hmmm... mordorbund 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MormonGator Posted October 11, 2016 Report Share Posted October 11, 2016 4 minutes ago, Larry Cotrell said: Hmmm... my psychological flaw comment was actually descriptive, not pejorative. It was an explanation of their behavior. Not calling them "idiots'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Cotrell Posted October 11, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 11, 2016 4 minutes ago, MormonGator said: my psychological flaw comment was actually descriptive, not pejorative. It was an explanation of their behavior. Not calling them "idiots'. Fair enough Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MormonGator Posted October 11, 2016 Report Share Posted October 11, 2016 6 minutes ago, Larry Cotrell said: Fair enough In fact, most Trumpers I find to be good people who are simply misguided. That doesn't mean I don't debate with them. But yes, they have a psychological flaw that makes them unable see Trump the way others do. Imagine this: Your best friend is dating a girl who has been married five times and has cheated on everyone she's ever been with. You know this, your friends know this. Your best friend is still dating her because he's convinced beyond all reason that she can change. Your best friend is suffering from a psychological flaw too. That's not an insult to him, it's the truth. That's how I meant it. Big difference between that and just calling people "idiots". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
estradling75 Posted October 11, 2016 Report Share Posted October 11, 2016 26 minutes ago, anatess2 said: So? How is Johnson best? How is McMullin best? How is Stein best? Hopefully you're not saying Mormons think Clinton is best... I have no idea what "Mormons" think is the best candidate... Because Mormons don't all think alike... something you should know... and be ever much ashamed for implying. I know a lot (I would hope most) will vote for whom they think is 'best' by whatever criteria they use for 'best.' Maybe their criteria is best "Supreme Court choice", maybe their criteria is "who can best beat X" (whomever X might be), or maybe their criteria is to be be able to look God in the eyes and say "Yes I supported them" Or maybe it is something else entirely. Bottom line it shows increasingly sloppy and insulting thinking to assume that because someone doesn't support your candidate of choice(whomever that might be)... that they must therefore be an enemy and or an uneducated fool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MormonGator Posted October 11, 2016 Report Share Posted October 11, 2016 (edited) 6 minutes ago, estradling75 said: Bottom line it shows increasingly sloppy and insulting thinking to assume that because someone doesn't support your candidate of choice(whomever that might be)... that they must therefore be an enemy and or an uneducated fool. Amen. And this has many layers to it, given that @estradling75 and I would disagree on plenty. But I'd never call him an "idiot" or say he is an "enemy" or "uneducated" Edited October 11, 2016 by MormonGator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Cotrell Posted October 11, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 11, 2016 4 minutes ago, MormonGator said: The funny thing too Larry is that just saying that the accuser is guilty of something doesn't justify others bad behavior. That "glass houses" argument stopped working after 9th grade. I agree with what you've said on the thread. I don't think we should resort to name-calling either. I liked your psychological flaw comment. I'm not saying this discredits anyone's argument on anything. You know I have a lot of respect for you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MormonGator Posted October 11, 2016 Report Share Posted October 11, 2016 5 minutes ago, Larry Cotrell said: You know I have a lot of respect for you Thanks. I have a lot of respect for me too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunday21 Posted October 11, 2016 Report Share Posted October 11, 2016 12 minutes ago, MormonGator said: Thanks. I have a lot of respect for me too. Finally something on which we all agree! Now if only you would run for office.... Larry Cotrell 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MormonGator Posted October 11, 2016 Report Share Posted October 11, 2016 5 minutes ago, Sunday21 said: Finally something on which we all agree! Now if only you would run for office.... "Gator, what would you do if you ran for office and won?" "Immediately demand a recount." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anatess2 Posted October 11, 2016 Report Share Posted October 11, 2016 (edited) 36 minutes ago, estradling75 said: I have no idea what "Mormons" think is the best candidate... Because Mormons don't all think alike... something you should know... and be ever much ashamed for implying. I know a lot (I would hope most) will vote for whom they think is 'best' by whatever criteria they use for 'best.' Maybe their criteria is best "Supreme Court choice", maybe their criteria is "who can best beat X" (whomever X might be), or maybe their criteria is to be be able to look God in the eyes and say "Yes I supported them" Or maybe it is something else entirely. Bottom line it shows increasingly sloppy and insulting thinking to assume that because someone doesn't support your candidate of choice(whomever that might be)... that they must therefore be an enemy and or an uneducated fool. Reading comprehension is REALLY important. Especially after 9th grade. Where in my post did I EVER imply or assume that because someone doesn't support my candidate of choice they they are an enemy and uneducated. If you read back the Trumpers were just accused by MormonGator as unintelligent or was it ignorant or some such. I do not do that kind of garbage talk. Yes, Mormons don't think alike just like Blacks and Hispanics don't think alike. Doesn't matter. They are still talked about as a voting bloc. It is normal election-speak. The question stands as a response to your comment. How is McMullin, Johnson, Stein BEST? Edited October 11, 2016 by anatess2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MormonGator Posted October 11, 2016 Report Share Posted October 11, 2016 6 minutes ago, anatess2 said: Where in my post did I EVER imply or assume that because someone doesn't support my candidate of choice they they are an enemy and uneducated. If you read back the Trumpers were just accused by MormonGator as unintelligent or was it ignorant or some such. I do not do that kind of garbage talk. Wrong. Like I explained to Larry, "psychological flaw" doesn't mean "unintelligent." We all have hang ups and flaws. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
estradling75 Posted October 11, 2016 Report Share Posted October 11, 2016 7 minutes ago, anatess2 said: Reading comprehension is REALLY important. Especially after 9th grade. Where in my post did I EVER imply or assume that because someone doesn't support my candidate of choice they they are an enemy and uneducated. If you read back the Trumpers were just accused by MormonGator as unintelligent or was it ignorant or some such. I do not do that kind of garbage talk. Yes, Mormons don't think alike just like Blacks and Hispanics don't think alike. Doesn't matter. They are still talked about as a voting bloc. It is normal election-speak. The question stands as a response to your comment. How is McMullin, Johnson, Stein BEST? To quote you Reading comprehension is REALLY important. Especially after 9th grade. What part of " I know a lot (I would hope most) will vote for whom they think is 'best' by whatever criteria they use for 'best.' " was unclear to you? You have a history of hammering anyone that doesn't think like you all over this forum... and then hiding behind "English isn't my first language" when it is clear that you can't win You want Trump to win... fair enough.. you are entitled to that... but what you are not entitled to making sweeping and insulting attacks on people and groups that have a different desire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Godless Posted October 11, 2016 Report Share Posted October 11, 2016 11 hours ago, Jojo Bags said: Who cares about the video. A majority of American voters elected a rapist to the WH twice and a socialist twice. FTFY. And to be fair, Bill's sexual exploits weren't exactly common knowledge when he was elected in '92. And with the exception of Paula Jones, none if his accusers came forward until after he was reelected in '96. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Godless Posted October 11, 2016 Report Share Posted October 11, 2016 (edited) 2 hours ago, anatess2 said: So? How is Johnson best? How is McMullin best? How is Stein best? Hopefully you're not saying Mormons think Clinton is best... According to my (roughly 30-40% LDS) Facebook feed, McMullin is better because he's a true conservative, unlike Trump. If that's incorrect, please explain why. I'll fully admit to not caring enough about him to spend time researching his platform, nor do I claim to know what the heck "true conservative" means nowadays. I will say, however, that many of my LDS friends and family (my mother especially) are generally very good about doing their research before committing to a candidate. Suffice it to day, they probably aren't voting for him strictly because he's a Mormon (many of them disliked Romney). So I'd like very much to see your take on him, as I'm aware that you try your best to be politically involved as well. Edited October 11, 2016 by Godless Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueskye2 Posted October 11, 2016 Report Share Posted October 11, 2016 (edited) 21 hours ago, NeuroTypical said: I listened to the full audio and watched the video. I heard him bragging about how easy it is to get willing consent from lots and lots of women when you're a star, and the sorts of things you can do with those willing consentual women. I heard him bragging about doing things with a married woman. You didn't listen to the whole thing then. He talked about chasing after a married woman, and not getting anywhere with her. Then he moved on to bragging about doing whatever he wants, without waiting. He was talking about not waiting for consent, and bragging about how you can do that when you're a "star". Trump: I just start kissing them. It's like a magnet. Just kiss. I don't even wait. And when you're a star they let you do it. You can do anything." Bush: "Whatever you want." Trump: "Grab them [censored]. You can do anything." As for the excuse it's locker talk, several professional athletes have spoken out today against this stereotype, and saying no, they never discuss assaulting women. Trump should really stop using other people as excuses for his own behavior. They don't want his stink on them. (See also, Warren Buffett) Edited October 11, 2016 by Blueskye2 Just_A_Guy and carlimac 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prisonchaplain Posted October 11, 2016 Report Share Posted October 11, 2016 2 hours ago, MormonGator said: In fact, most Trumpers I find to be good people who are simply misguided. That doesn't mean I don't debate with them. How many "Trumpers" have you run into--especially here? Many of us will vote for him. However, most are doing so "without endorsing," and with holding our noses and placing bags firmly over our heads. Trumpism means tepid support for socially-conservative issues like pro-life and religious liberties, and a schizophrenic view of economics (mandatory maternity leave, protectionist trade), Nativist immigration tendencies, and an apparent return to 1950s foreign policy (the dictators may be jerks, but they are our jerks). How many people are just "all-in" with this hodge-podge? It's not good (imho), but it's better than HRC. Most of what I've seen at this site is very begrudging leanings towards The Donald. Only one or two have been very promotional of him. Just_A_Guy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MormonGator Posted October 11, 2016 Report Share Posted October 11, 2016 4 minutes ago, prisonchaplain said: How many "Trumpers" have you run into--especially here? Here? Not many. On Facebook-probably half my FB friends are Trumpers. 5 minutes ago, prisonchaplain said: Most of what I've seen at this site is very begrudging leanings towards The Donald. Only one or two have been very promotional of him. Totally agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prisonchaplain Posted October 11, 2016 Report Share Posted October 11, 2016 5 minutes ago, MormonGator said: Here? Not many. On Facebook-probably half my FB friends are Trumpers. This explains my tepid, begrudging use/support of FB. :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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