Is Trump Video Surprising?

[anatess2]

19 hours ago, Blueskye2 said:

This is actually the clearest explanation I have ever seen, for the phenomena of Trump having the support he does. Thanks for taking the time to write it. 

I totally get your points, and can see the attraction. I don't get why you think Trump is going to do GOOD for the country.  There is a leap from, what has been going on wrong for nearly two decades, to Trump as savior...that I'm still not getting. 

In other words, I see he has a symbolic attraction but not tangible evidence that could take Trump from symbolic leader to an actual leader. He in fact, speaks in symbolic terms (which isn't unusual in a campaign, Obama did the same thing).

I believe Trump is going to do good for the country just by his disloyalty to standard R or D party lines that has caused a quagmire in governance.  That alone is enough  But that's hardly the reason why I believe Trump is going to be good for the country.  I believe he is not only going to be good for the US, he is also going to be good for the Philippines and Europe as well due to the following reasons:

1.)  He is not stuck on a the R or D foreign policy positions... to get R bonafides and get campaign funding from the RNC and R lobbyists, you have to align yourself with Bush foreign policy.  Bush is threatening to vote Clinton because of this - Clinton and the D's are closer to the Bush foreign policy agenda than Trump is.  Both R and D are interventionaists but both have different ways of doing it.  Bush thought that to promote peace in the MIddle East, you have to militarily replace them with Democratic governments.  This is a failure.  Democracy only works in places where people have the cultural strength to stand on their "Light of Christ" instincts.  Otherwise, you will have to make these countries either commonwealths of the US or colonies of the US to give them a chance to turn their culture around to the responsibilities of Democratic nations.  But the Rs are only interested in forcing a democratic government.  They don't have the fortitude nor the resources to hold that nation through the long and arduous process of a cultural transition.  Democracy doesn't work in places where the people is subject to the whims of influence of powerful people - like the mullahs and other oligarchs.  So you see Palestine exercising their first democratic voice by electing the stronger terrorist.  D are also interventionists but through the prism of diplomacy.  Another failure.  The same problem with the Bush idea is still present in diplomacy - you can't lead a people through being nice if their Light of Christ is snuffed out by not-nice powerful people.

Trump's unique position of intervention only if the people desires it (in the form of putting their skin in the game through paying for it) and it doesn't put the USA at risk through unfunded military liabilities that has no direct impact to national security is something that nobody has tried before.  The theory is appealing and I'd like to see it have a chance to get applied.  The theory of keeping Syrians in Syria to fight for their own country is a very practical solution that has zero touchy-feely impact on elections.  Yet this is exactly how you rebuild a nation - the US stopping this bad faction from fighting that bad faction while the good people flee the land is a recipe for decades of Syrian collapse.  This is not how you solve that problem.  What I believe is the best plan is to keep good Syrians in Syria and provide protection and resources there (instead of in the US or in Europe) empowers the good Syrians into taking back their own country.  And it's not contingent on them having to form a democracy. 

My ears immediately perked up when Trump gave his very first foreign policy speech that I immediately posted about it on lds.net.  His blatant disloyalty to Bush foreign policy and his strength to stand by it among Republicans was interesting.  Then he outlined his plan for the Israeli-Palestinian conflict which was just spot on to me - same thing, both R and D are wrong on this one.  Before Trump laid out the foundation of his foreign policy, I was on my usual stance of not supporting anybody until the general elections. 

Tons of foreign policy decisions - both R and D I don't agree with.  Let's take Iraq, for example.  Bush invaded Iraq to depose Hussein when Iraqis did not want them to.  Husni Mubarak of Egypt - instrumental in the stabilization of the Middle East Islamic States - was completely against it among others yet Bush went on with the military action, taking out Hussein, and causing the entire landslide of Middle Eastern relations.  Mubarak's relationship with the US got so strained that anti-western rebels was able to topple him as Mubarak got squeezed from  pressure on both sides - from anti-western rebels and the western leaders demanding an end to his dictatorship.  The toppling of Mubarak caused other Islamic States to topple as well leaving anti-western leadership in place.  Obama made it worse by his failure to establish a renegotiation of the status of forces agreement in Iraq that caused a vacuum of power in the Levant.  Anyway, this entire situation needs to be managed much differently than how we have been doing it - both R and D - for decades.  Trump's pragmatic voice in this arena of discussion is a refreshing shift for the same-old same-old campaign rhetoric.

2.)  Free Trade.  Finally.  Somebody who is not scared to point out the historical failures of the way Free Trade is handled in the US.  Before - if you're a Republican, you can't say anything bad about Free Trade even as it is killing the country... because, what will the conservatives say???  A pragmatic Trump has no problem pointing out that Free Trade that causes massive trade deficits is Not Free even as he still believes that Free Trade is generally good for the human race.

Just those 2 is enough for me to enthusiastically support a Trump campaign as those 2 things directly affect the Philippines.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[yjacket]

Now we have FBI released documents the document a quid pro quo for reclassification of e-mails from an Undersecretary of State:

In return for altering the classification, the possibility of additional slots for the FBI at missions overseas was discussed

Why would you do that? To protect Hillary.  So we can go on and on about Trump and his alleged sexual misconduct and how someone who sleeps around and has issues with women would be a horrible president. 

But quite frankly which is the greater evil . . .to grope women (which while evil, impacts only the individuals), or a having in place a systemic decision among multiple people to ensure that Hillary is president.

When Hillary said why isn't she 50 points ahead, I think the real question is, why does she have 45% of the vote? Instead of #NeverTrump, people were focusing on the wrong side.  It should be #NeverHillary.

Edited October 17, 2016 by yjacket

[unixknight]

Nobody is surprised by anything at this point.

But this is all hypocrisy.  *gasp* Trump said some crude things to some buddies?  Yeah, so?  That's Trump being Trump.  In other news, water is still wet.  All this feigned outrage is from politicians and talking heads who knew who he was when they endorsed him, and are only turning on him now because they're calculating that it's politically their best option at this point.  Any of them who express surprise are liars.  Again, water is still wet.

So the best defense of Trump's actions now is "Well Hillary enabled Bill to do it!"  Well yes, we've known that for 20+ years but thanks for the reminder. 

My open comment to Clinton voters:  Stop pretending to be morally superior.  Your candidates are historically at least as bad, and frankly Trump was considered a left-winger prior to 2016.  He's a monster that you had a hand in creating. 

My open comment to Republicans who voted Trump in the primaries:  This is on you.  You had a field of great candidates and managed to choose the only one Clinton could beat.  You made this bed, lay down and shut up.  If you supported Trump a month ago it is WAY too late to claim the moral high ground now. 

I just can't take seriously the outrage coming from anybody planning to vote for either one of these people at this point.  You enthusiastically chose the two worst candidates available so don't whine about it now.

I apologize for the rant, but I've had it up to my eyeballs.  I'm so sick to death of election years and this is the worst one ever.

[NeuroTypical]

I found a leftie and jumped ship months ago.  I remove one vote from Trump, my leftie buddy removes one vote from Hillary.  We're both going Gary Johnson.  Even though foreign policy is his weak spot, he's principled, and I can live with 75% of his principles.  If (probably when) he loses the election, I can rest easy knowing that 1. I did not vote for Trump, and 2. My lack of support for the main right candidate did not result in making it easier for the main left candidate to win.

The rest of you: Y'all enjoy your two party system.  Have fun voting for this guy, or this gal, depending on which eye you squint through.

Edited October 17, 2016 by NeuroTypical

[Guest MormonGator]

31 minutes ago, unixknight said:

Nobody is surprised by anything at this point.

But this is all hypocrisy.  *gasp* Trump said some crude things to some buddies?  Yeah, so?  That's Trump being Trump.  In other news, water is still wet.  All this feigned outrage is from politicians and talking heads who knew who he was when they endorsed him, and are only turning on him now because they're calculating that it's politically their best option at this point.  Any of them who express surprise are liars.  Again, water is still wet.

So the best defense of Trump's actions now is "Well Hillary enabled Bill to do it!"  Well yes, we've known that for 20+ years but thanks for the reminder. 

My open comment to Clinton voters:  Stop pretending to be morally superior.  Your candidates are historically at least as bad, and frankly Trump was considered a left-winger prior to 2016.  He's a monster that you had a hand in creating. 

My open comment to Republicans who voted Trump in the primaries:  This is on you.  You had a field of great candidates and managed to choose the only one Clinton could beat.  You made this bed, lay down and shut up.  If you supported Trump a month ago it is WAY too late to claim the moral high ground now. 

I just can't take seriously the outrage coming from anybody planning to vote for either one of these people at this point.  You enthusiastically chose the two worst candidates available so don't whine about it now.

I apologize for the rant, but I've had it up to my eyeballs.  I'm so sick to death of election years and this is the worst one ever.

Co-signed.

I have no sympathy whatsoever for the Trumpers once they lose. Like you said, they had a field of wonderful candidates. They wanted this, they got it. No sympathy. I feel sorry for people like you and I who have to clean up this disaster/live with and have to deal with the ramifications of Clinton. 

Edited October 17, 2016 by MormonGator

[Traveler]

2 hours ago, yjacket said:

Bingo,

There are really good people in government, but it's like the pot boiling. First one thing happens, then another, then another.  A little corruption here, a little there.  People inherently understand it is there but think well someone should stop them-they don't. Okay well if the people in charge didn't get stopped then that means what they did is okay.  People get used to it and then it becomes accepted. It's a slow process (but can happen very, very quickly too).  Those involved in it get more and more brazen in an attempt to keep control and power.  Then boom in 5-10 years you look back and you think, what the heck has happened? How did we get here?

Traveler, for the 1st time in my life I am actually really worried that it is getting close.  There is some really weird stuff going on over the last 10 months. Stuff that makes me thing the line "The Revolution will not be Televised" is real.

Rich Seth, Shawn Lucas. (oh and believe me the Rs are not innocent either).

There is enough in the e-mails from what I've read (the vast majority are innocuous but the others they lay out a very nasty pattern and I'm talking crazy crap), that I think there is a high likelihood that Scalia was assassinated (and I have stayed away previously from conspiracy websites about that thing thinking "yeah right, come on that is just ludicrious. . . ."). Either the e-mail leaks are fake and put out by some entity (which the things I've read have a long enough track record and multiple layers that seem to track that it is hard to spoof it or fake it) or we are in for a massive crap storm.

I honest to goodness hope I am wrong. 

 

I do not believe we understand how close we are to losing everything concerning our freedoms and liberties.  Sometime ago – under President Clinton – a unique and special National Guard military unit was set up and organized.  This unit was intended to give the president unique and special power to counteract terrorism within the borders of the USA.  Unlike other National Guard units this military unit could not, ever, be under state or any state governor control – only the president oversees this military unit that can be given secret orders for any declared national crisis and without oversight from any other branch of the Federal Government.  At the time it looked a lot like the Nazi SS to me.

Since its inception – I have not been able to gather any information concerning this military unit – not even through the Freedom of Information Act.  Nor have I encountered anyone else (news network or otherwise) that has given out any information.  It would seem that the entire organization (including its name) and operation has become classified.  The military unit, when it was initially organized, had specialists in communications (including IT technologies), specialists in intelligence gathering and specialists in high level strategic military operations that include specialized military weaponry not available to other military units.

With the politicizing of the IRS, the Attorney General, the Federal Judges and Supreme Court and other Federal Government agencies (including Health Care) that we have seen under the current Administration – I think this next election will end all conservative influences.  I am thinking the next target in the loss of our freedoms will be the overturning (or over ruling) of State control of local laws, law enforcement and courts.  I suspect this will happen (and has started to happen) under the excuse of racial inequality.  I believe that only by direct divine intervention can the forces currently in power be prevented from doing what-ever they will within our Federal Government.  I do not believe the upcoming election will change anything and that the next president has already been determined and that the will of the people will not matter.

 

The Traveler

[yjacket]

1 hour ago, MormonGator said:

Co-signed.

I have no sympathy whatsoever for the Trumpers once they lose. Like you said, they had a field of wonderful candidates. They wanted this, they got it. No sympathy. I feel sorry for people like you and I who have to clean up this disaster/live with and have to deal with the ramifications of Clinton. 

Just for the record.  I did vote for Rand Paul!!!

[Guest MormonGator]

6 minutes ago, yjacket said:

Just for the record.  I did vote for Rand Paul!!!

So did I. 

[yjacket]

Maybe Trump is immoral, maybe he is a pied piper.  But I'm completely down with this:

https://www.donaldjtrump.com/press-releases/trump-details-ethics-reform-p

If he is also the devil like Hillary then well we are screwed no matter what.

[Blueskye2]

16 hours ago, yjacket said:

It's not that I think he is good, it's that I think we are at a very pivotal moment in American History.

Let's just think this through here.  Trump politically is unknown.  Say people are right and he'd be a pompous jerk and break laws.  If you think we have a legitimate functioning government of laws, then if he does something illegal he will be prosecuted.  4 years go by you elect someone else, big deal. If we have a legitimate functioning government then there is no way he could execute something like the "night of the long knives"? Just freaking impossible.

If we don't have a legitimate functioning government, then you are scared that he gets in there and executes a "night of the long knives" or something like that?  If you are worried about him doing something like that, then you are already admitting we do not have a legitimate functioning rule of law government. Our system of government is set up such that if things are working properly no one man can literally destroy the country. There are checks and balances on the judges, the congress, etc. all to make sure that power is diffused so no one man/women can bring it's downfall.

If you are already worried that we don't have a legitimate functioning government that will bring people to justice if they commit crimes (as you worried about Trump) then do you really want to take a chance on her?  

For Clinton, we know her crimes, she is corrupt, there is no doubt about this-the e-mails prove it you just have to read them.  Is it possible that she isn't just corrupt but deadly?  Do you really want to take that chance?

If this is the case then you have to forget how we got here (forget Trump winning, etc. Cruz, etc.), and only deal with how we can possibly ensure that someone so crooked never touches the White House.  

Again for me, I'll take the chance of a Trump presidency to stop someone so evil.  Maybe he isn't any better-but if he isn't and we have a legitimate functioning rule of law government he will be brought to justice.

I've already said more than once that democracy in this country is a sham. I'm thinking I'm not believed.  Law and order is at the will of people who want to do good. I still say MOST people are people of good will. I don't say that about MOST politicians. I don't believe any person rises to such power, without making decisions that are not good at all, to get there. I think over time the ante is raised, to do less and less good, to achieve the same power objectives. The ante is very high.

Yes, I absolutely see a possibility that Trump will act as dictator, of at least try to. I see it every day in his comments and behavior, while the temporary anarchists cheer him on.  I don't think Trump is a temporary anarchist. I think he enjoys the anarchy way too much to let it end. 

Edited October 18, 2016 by Blueskye2

[Blackmarch]

On October 8, 2016 at 1:38 PM, Larry Cotrell said:

As you probably know, a video of Trump making vulgar comments was recently leaked. Because of this, he has lost a lot of support and several people have unendorsed him. After watching part of this video (censored), it doesn't seem that shocking that he said these things. I am trying to understand why this has affected his campaign so much, as he has said awful things in the past. 

Is anyone out there surprised by what he said in the video? Does anyone think it is shockingly uncharacteristic of him? 

And, does anyone think he should drop out and let Pence be the candidate because he has no chance of getting elected now?

1st. No not shocked.

Second generally its best to assume that most mud that comes out during the election is not correct.