Climate Change and Global Warming

[Traveler]

I was on a flight coming into SLC this last week and by chance sitting next to me was a fellow scientist.  He was a chemists and was coming (to present) at an international symposium on developing sources of clean water for underdeveloped countries.  I cherish such opportunities to pick the brains of experts.  My friend was coming to SLC from Belgium.  One question I had concerned future development of desalinating sea water for use in hydroponic gardening in the sands of Norther Africa boarding on the Mediterranean Sea.  My Belgium friend informed me that there are already large scale projects considering the possibility – but it has been determined (by project experimentation) that in order to get the hydroponic gardens to work and produce on a large scale that natural gas must be burned in order for the plants to have sufficient carbon dioxide.   “Really?” I asked, are the climate change types aware of this carbon dioxide deficiency problem?  Apparently they do not want to be aware of this conundrum.

 

The Traveler

[Blackmarch]

3 hours ago, Traveler said:

I was on a flight coming into SLC this last week and by chance sitting next to me was a fellow scientist.  He was a chemists and was coming (to present) at an international symposium on developing sources of clean water for underdeveloped countries.  I cherish such opportunities to pick the brains of experts.  My friend was coming to SLC from Belgium.  One question I had concerned future development of desalinating sea water for use in hydroponic gardening in the sands of Norther Africa boarding on the Mediterranean Sea.  My Belgium friend informed me that there are already large scale projects considering the possibility – but it has been determined (by project experimentation) that in order to get the hydroponic gardens to work and produce on a large scale that natural gas must be burned in order for the plants to have sufficient carbon dioxide.   “Really?” I asked, are the climate change types aware of this carbon dioxide deficiency problem?  Apparently they do not want to be aware of this conundrum.

 

The Traveler

intersting. different locations have slightly different levels of CO2. really not enough info there to apply to a global scale however. did he say what types of plants they were using and what the plant density or was projected to be?

[Guest]

11 hours ago, Traveler said:

I was on a flight coming into SLC this last week and by chance sitting next to me was a fellow scientist.  He was a chemists and was coming (to present) at an international symposium on developing sources of clean water for underdeveloped countries.  I cherish such opportunities to pick the brains of experts.  My friend was coming to SLC from Belgium.  One question I had concerned future development of desalinating sea water for use in hydroponic gardening in the sands of Norther Africa boarding on the Mediterranean Sea.  My Belgium friend informed me that there are already large scale projects considering the possibility – but it has been determined (by project experimentation) that in order to get the hydroponic gardens to work and produce on a large scale that natural gas must be burned in order for the plants to have sufficient carbon dioxide.   “Really?” I asked, are the climate change types aware of this carbon dioxide deficiency problem?  Apparently they do not want to be aware of this conundrum.

 

The Traveler

While I'm certainly not in the "climate change types" category as you call them, there may be a different explanation for that.  Most hydroponics I know of are in greenhouses i.e. enclosed space.  So, the plants will eventually use up a lot more CO2 than oxygen.  This is not a good balance point if you have the commonly high growth rate associated with hydroponics.  

To accelerate the growth rate and maximize potential, higher than normal levels of CO2 are actually ideal for plants.  Some greenhouses bring in dry ice during the summer so they get cooled and they have higher levels of CO2 inside the greenhouse.

Edited November 17, 2016 by Guest

[anatess2]

11 hours ago, Carborendum said:

While I'm certainly not in the "climate change types" category as you call them, there may be a different explanation for that.  Most hydroponics I know of are in greenhouses i.e. enclosed space.  So, the plants will eventually use up a lot more CO2 than oxygen.  This is not a good balance point if you have the commonly high growth rate associated with hydroponics.  

To accelerate the growth rate and maximize potential, higher than normal levels of CO2 are actually ideal for plants.  Some greenhouses bring in dry ice during the summer so they get cooled and they have higher levels of CO2 inside the greenhouse.

Hydroponics don't have to be in a greenhouse.  All commercial hydroponics growers in the Philippines (they're big on lettuce over there) don't use them.

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

Hydroponics don't have to be in a greenhouse.  All commercial hydroponics growers in the Philippines (they're big on lettuce over there) don't use them.

The Philippines has a lot higher humidity that North Africa.

[anatess2]

9 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

The Philippines has a lot higher humidity that North Africa.

Doesn't matter.  You can hydroponically grow crops in low humidity areas especially when it's sitting in a tub of water.  Of course, you can try all you want to grow apples in the Philippines without a greenhouse... ain't gonna happen because... apples are not conducive to the climate.  Know what I mean?  But then, Filipinos generally don't eat apples.

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

Doesn't matter.  You can hydroponically grow crops in low humidity areas...

I'm asking as respectfully as I can for you to look at the context.

1) Traveler talked about a specific case.
2) I mentioned that statistically hydroponics are done in confined spaces.  This is so they can control the conditions.
3) North Africa has many factors that would benefit from confined space hydroponics.
4) The additional CO2 cannot be efficacious without confined space, so that is obviously what the friend was talking about.

[Vort]

7 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

But then, Filipinos generally don't eat apples.

Then they're missing out. I am in Texas for the week on business, and yesterday I went into the lunch room to find a lady showing another coworker a huge apple she had brought. I remarked that she must not be from Washington, because that was a small apple* where I come from. We joked about everything in Texas being bigger, and she went off to enjoy her apple. Fujis really are the best, along with Honeycrisps.

*It wasn't really a small apple; it was a large Fuji, probably a pound or bigger. But I actually have seen, and eaten, much larger.

[anatess2]

21 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

I'm asking as respectfully as I can for you to look at the context.

1) Traveler talked about a specific case.
2) I mentioned that statistically hydroponics are done in confined spaces.  This is so they can control the conditions.
3) North Africa has many factors that would benefit from confined space hydroponics.
4) The additional CO2 cannot be efficacious without confined space, so that is obviously what the friend was talking about.

Ok.  But it wasn't so obvious to me.  But, that's my problem.

[anatess2]

20 minutes ago, Vort said:

Then they're missing out. I am in Texas for the week on business, and yesterday I went into the lunch room to find a lady showing another coworker a huge apple she had brought. I remarked that she must not be from Washington, because that was a small apple* where I come from. We joked about everything in Texas being bigger, and she went off to enjoy her apple. Fujis really are the best, along with Honeycrisps.

*It wasn't really a small apple; it was a large Fuji, probably a pound or bigger. But I actually have seen, and eaten, much larger.

The apples (usually red delicious) comes out in the Filipino markets during Christmas season.  It's expensive as all get... but, because my dad gets Christmas bonuses, I've had at least one red delicious apple every year at Christmastime... and it's like.... manna from heaven.

[Vort]

9 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

The apples (usually red delicious) comes out in the Filipino markets during Christmas season.  It's expensive as all get... but, because my dad gets Christmas bonuses, I've had at least one red delicious apple every year at Christmastime... and it's like.... manna from heaven.

I loved Red Delicious as a child. As an adult, I'll still eat them, but I consider Red Delicious (and Green Delicious) to be little more than sweetened cardboard. Try Fujis, Honeycrisps, McIntoshes, Granny Smiths, Pink Ladys...really, almost any apple is better than a Delicious, except when they get mealy. Yuk.

[Guest]

37 minutes ago, Vort said:

I am in Texas for the week on business...

Waitaminute.  You're in Texas?  Are you anywhere near A&M?

[anatess2]

23 minutes ago, Vort said:

I loved Red Delicious as a child. As an adult, I'll still eat them, but I consider Red Delicious (and Green Delicious) to be little more than sweetened cardboard. Try Fujis, Honeycrisps, McIntoshes, Granny Smiths, Pink Ladys...really, almost any apple is better than a Delicious, except when they get mealy. Yuk.

Hmm... I have to try it!  I have to admit, I've only bought red delicious (coz, you know, it's what I know)... and my aunt's apple (have no idea what it is called) from her backyard in Northeast Ohio.  I have to say, my aunt's apples tastes better than the red delicious when made into a pie.  Oh!  And my very first Christmas in the US (I arrived in Ohio on Dec 24 not too long after I landed in San Francisco)... I binged on red delicious apples... and got so constipated I didn't poop for days...

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

I binged on red delicious apples... and got so constipated I didn't poop for days...

On the one hand... gee... thanks for sharing.

On the other hand... how can that be?  Apples are supposed to HELP with ... regularity.

[anatess2]

8 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

On the one hand... gee... thanks for sharing.

On the other hand... how can that be?  Apples are supposed to HELP with ... regularity.

I know, right?  I guess they only meant an apple a day and not a dozen... dunno really.  I still love red delicious though.... well, until I give Vort's apples a try.

[Guest]

58 minutes ago, Vort said:

I loved Red Delicious as a child. As an adult, I'll still eat them, but I consider Red Delicious (and Green Delicious) to be little more than sweetened cardboard. Try Fujis, Honeycrisps, McIntoshes, Granny Smiths, Pink Ladys...really, almost any apple is better than a Delicious, except when they get mealy. Yuk.

What I'd like to know is what the heck happened to Cameos?  When they first came out they were the most flavorful thing I'd ever tasted.  But the last several years of Cameos have given us nothing but crispy water.

[Vort]

1 hour ago, Carborendum said:

Waitaminute.  You're in Texas?  Are you anywhere near A&M?

Richardson.

[mordorbund]

In my younger days someone told me about how they saw some strongmen ripping produce apart with their bare hands. They mentioned apples as among the victims. Being young and male, this meant I had to start ripping apples in two before eating (I'm not wasteful). I was disappointed how easy it was (stick your thumb down the middle until there's enough room to insert a digit from the other hand, then pry). Until I met the Fuji. I mastered it, in time, but have respected that apple ever since.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Vort said:

Richardson.

Pity.  I would look forward to shaking your hand -- even if the feeling is not reciprocated.

[Vort]

10 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

Pity.  I would look forward to shaking your hand -- even if the feeling is not reciprocated.

It would be very much reciprocated. Maybe I'm forgetting someone, but I don't believe I've met anyone on LDS.net, er, MormonHub IRL. EDIT: Except for Morningstar, but she doesn't appear to be part of the forum any more. Having too much fun in her new digs, I expect.

Edited November 17, 2016 by Vort

[Sunday21]

I envy this hub members who go to meet ups, Sometimes it would nice to see a face! Gator looks lovely! That was a surprise. No wonder he has so many wives.

[mordorbund]

17 hours ago, Vort said:

It would be very much reciprocated. Maybe I'm forgetting someone, but I don't believe I've met anyone on LDS.net, er, MormonHub IRL. EDIT: Except for Morningstar, but she doesn't appear to be part of the forum any more. Having too much fun in her new digs, I expect.

A few years ago I used to live in the Kirkland Stake. We may have met and not known it.