Deciding who to tell about my excommunication

[Latter-Day Marriage]

1 hour ago, Vort said:

In my experience -- which, I admit, doesn't really establish anything -- Latter-day Saints know how to keep information confidential. Not only the leaders, but those who have "privileged" information, generally seem to recognize that they should keep such knowledge to themselves.

For example, a ward council consists of a dozen or more ward leaders, including the bishopric members, the adult quorum leaders or their counselors, and the auxiliary leaders (Relief Society, Primary, Young Women, Young Men, Sunday School) or their counselors. In addition, it includes the ward executive secretary, the ward clerk, and the ward mission leader. The full-time missionaries also often attend. Though intimate matters of discipline and such are only rarely mentioned in a ward council. other information of a sensitive and potentially embarrassing nature is discussed. Yet that information stays within the ward council, not discussed outside of it, even with spouses.

I'm sure there are exceptions to this, and doubtless someone can point out a case where some ward council member blabbed about confidential information. But in my experience, that would be very much the exception to the rule.

Many years ago when I was Gospel Doctrine teacher the Bishop privately told me to not ask a certain member to give prayers or ask him to answer questions in class, he was restricted from doing those things and they didn't want him put in an embarrassing public situation.  I knew better than to ask way or say anything to others.  Most everybody was surprised when it was announced there would be a (re)baptism for him some months later.  When I was EQ Prez a member of the quorum when through a very messy family breakup and even then the only details I knew about it were from what he said to me.  I'm glad to be in a ward were there is practically no gossip.

[NeuroTypical]

2 hours ago, Vort said:

In my experience -- which, I admit, doesn't really establish anything -- Latter-day Saints know how to keep information confidential. Not only the leaders, but those who have "privileged" information, generally seem to recognize that they should keep such knowledge to themselves.

I'm the ward finance clerk.  Every week, I write out checks from fast offerings.  I know who is getting counseling, who is getting food assistance, etc.  Every ward has one of me.   I figure I blab about it as much as the next ward's financial clerk, which is to say, I don't, and neither does anyone else.  

Bishopric and ward council and whatnot, are hardly hotbeds of gossip.  It's not like we go to our Relief Society presidents to find 'the dirt on sister so-and-so'.  When was the last time you heard a sunday school lesson about "don't do porn like brother whatsisname"?

Yeah, Vort is one guy, but an entire global message board full of people with pretty much the same experience - an almost absolute lack of spreading sensitive info?  It says something. 

Edited May 4, 2017 by NeuroTypical

[Sunday21]

Proud of you! Good man. @NeuroTypical

[Bad Karma]

On 5/2/2017 at 10:02 AM, workingonit said:

Hi All,

As I stated in a previous thread, I was excommunicated a week and a half ago.  It has been about 2.5 months since I decided to choose the path of repentance and disclose my misdeeds to my wife, bishop, etc.  We have 2 young boys age 1.5 and 5.  Right now my parents know about everything as well as a sister and her husband and a few close friends (for my wife's support).  My wife and I are trying to decide if, and how much we tell her parents.  She feels guilty that we haven't told them anything yet. We have a baby blessing in her family coming up that I will obviously not be able to participate in, but I don't want to miss.   I also wonder how much and at what point we talk to our 5 year old about what is going on.  Any suggestions. 

I needed to quote you so I didn't dotter along off the beaten path in my reply, I hope you understand. Ok, lets proceed.

Serious question, who needs to know this stuff that does not know already? It's no one's business, not your in-laws, nobody. The requisite people already know, i.e. wife, bishop, such. No one at church needs to know, you should not feel compelled or even at liberty to discuss it. It does not define you, does it? I mean does it seriously define you? Are you truly "working on it"? If so, why the big deal about wanting to talk about it? It's kind of obcessive, when MY focus would be to re-integrate with my ward, re-progress on up into having a temple recommend in my hand. 

Seriously, your kids don't need to know, your in-laws don't need to know, why your wife feels guilty about them not knowing is really weird. Who cares? You've paid what you owed, took your lumps, now grab yourself by your boot straps and cowboy up. Your wife's guilt about it is irrelevant, the lord thy God hath forgiven you, who is he or she to usurp his absolute authority? The heavenly father has already spoken, you came forward, begged forgiveness, took your lumps at church, your Father in heaven said DONE, well, it's done. Now, go and don't do it again.

Focus on your part to play in being a member of the body of Christ, a great husband and a wonderful Dad. That's where I would concentrate. 

To quote a brilliant figure called Forrest Gump: "That's all I have to say about that". 

[eddified]

I have the same experience as @Vort, @Latter-Day Marriage @NeuroTypical. In my experience gossip and sharing of personal details is avoided very, very well in the presidencies of the church.

[Sunday21]

11 minutes ago, eddified said:

I have the same experience as @Vort, @Latter-Day Marriage @NeuroTypical. In my experience gossip and sharing of personal details is avoided very, very well in the presidencies of the church.

Good to know!

[estradling75]

14 hours ago, NeuroTypical said:

I'm the ward finance clerk.  Every week, I write out checks from fast offerings.  I know who is getting counseling, who is getting food assistance, etc.  Every ward has one of me.   I figure I blab about it as much as the next ward's financial clerk, which is to say, I don't, and neither does anyone else.  

Bishopric and ward council and whatnot, are hardly hotbeds of gossip.  It's not like we go to our Relief Society presidents to find 'the dirt on sister so-and-so'.  When was the last time you heard a sunday school lesson about "don't do porn like brother whatsisname"?

Yeah, Vort is one guy, but an entire global message board full of people with pretty much the same experience - an almost absolute lack of spreading sensitive info?  It says something. 

I agree and Confirm a similar set of experiences as @Vort @NeuroTypical.

But I have also heard of rare cases were a mistake is made.  Our leaders are human and mistakes happen, and when they do they get a whole lot of press making sound like a a more chronic problem then it really is.

And I know that people see what they want to see.  Those who have been disciplined are understandably sensitive about the matter, and might read into things that aren't there.  For example lets say an Elder Quorum President is in church and for what ever reason is remembering a bad day at work or whatever.  He happens to be looking in the direction of a member who is working through something with the bishop.  The President knows nothing about this he just happens to be looking that direction when the unrelated thoughts come to him.  The struggling member takes the expression on the President as meaning only one possible thing.  The bishop blabbed and the President is judging and looking down on him.  No confidence were broken no secrets shared, but that is not what the struggling member is going to think  

 

[workingonit]

Update...  This weekend we went up to my in-laws and gave them a brief summary of what has transpired over the last few months.  Father-in-law was shocked, angry, protective, condemning and pretty much lived up to my worst expectations ( with the exception of shooting me, which I'm glad he didn't).  Mother-in-law was loving and supportive.  Right now I want to crawl in a hole and never ever have to look them in the eye again.  I want my wife to have as much support as she needs, but as they pry for more information, I'm really regretting this decision right now.  Note to self...don't take advise from your therapist. 

[zil]

I'm so sorry for your pain, @workingonit.  I think the following could perhaps be turned into a blessing in disguise:

22 minutes ago, workingonit said:

Right now I want to crawl in a hole and never ever have to look them in the eye again.

Humility is something we all have to learn somehow.  The above will (can) teach it the hard way.  I recommend you accept the challenge and learn to be (more) humble, to rely more fully on the grace of Christ.  The only other alternative is far worse (hard feelings, self-destructive behaviors, wedges between you and your wife, etc.).  Rely on the Lord to heal everyone involved in this.  Eventually, He will take away the guilt and shame, anger and pain, and replace it with peace and pure love.

[NightSG]

55 minutes ago, workingonit said:

but as they pry for more information,

Unless your father in law becomes your bishop, the answer is "I've already discussed this with the appropriate Priesthood authority and am following the counsel received."  

[workingonit]

Thank you @zil, I appreciate you helping me see that.

[zil]

Just now, workingonit said:

Thank you @zil, I appreciate you helping me see that.

It will be both painful, and difficult, I have no doubt, but good can come.  I'm praying for you. Hold on to the truths you know, it'll be OK in the end.

[Blueskye2]

On 5/2/2017 at 11:02 AM, workingonit said:

Hi All,

As I stated in a previous thread, I was excommunicated a week and a half ago.  It has been about 2.5 months since I decided to choose the path of repentance and disclose my misdeeds to my wife, bishop, etc.  We have 2 young boys age 1.5 and 5.  Right now my parents know about everything as well as a sister and her husband and a few close friends (for my wife's support).  My wife and I are trying to decide if, and how much we tell her parents.  She feels guilty that we haven't told them anything yet. We have a baby blessing in her family coming up that I will obviously not be able to participate in, but I don't want to miss.   I also wonder how much and at what point we talk to our 5 year old about what is going on.  Any suggestions. 

My dear, once you've told one person everyone will know, eventually. There will be gossip, about you, and people who will never look at you as human, again.  Not saying this to be cruel, but to say, be prepared. It's coming. 

[zil]

6 minutes ago, Blueskye2 said:

My dear, once you've told one person everyone will know, eventually. There will be gossip, about you, and people who will never look at you as human, again.  Not saying this to be cruel, but to say, be prepared. It's coming. 

Some of that may be true, but I know there are some people who will keep it to themselves and discourage gossip should they hear it.  There are some people who will love our friend all the more for his efforts to repent, and respect his hard work.  There are some people who will draw closer to the Lord as they forgive and learn to love another in spite of their weakness.  Good things will come with the bad, and sort the wheat from the chaff.

[Blueskye2]

6 minutes ago, zil said:

Some of that may be true, but I know there are some people who will keep it to themselves and discourage gossip should they hear it.  There are some people who will love our friend all the more for his efforts to repent, and respect his hard work.  There are some people who will draw closer to the Lord as they forgive and learn to love another in spite of their weakness.  Good things will come with the bad, and sort the wheat from the chaff.

I like your view. 

[NightSG]

5 hours ago, zil said:

Some of that may be true, but I know there are some people who will keep it to themselves and discourage gossip should they hear it.  There are some people who will love our friend all the more for his efforts to repent, and respect his hard work.  There are some people who will draw closer to the Lord as they forgive and learn to love another in spite of their weakness.

Yeah, but he's not hanging out with the Presbyterians.

[Sunday21]

Re: concept that 'no one will ever look at you as human again'

Not where I live! We have many who have left the church for a time and returned (me for one). Let's face it, the things that one is 'xed' for are normal life for many inactive. When I returned to church, no one could have cared less what I did when I was inactive and that includes the bishop. No one cares what you did during your 'off period'. This is what I like most about the Lds people.

Edited May 8, 2017 by Sunday21

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Sunday21 said:

Re: concept that 'no one will ever look at you as human again'

Not where I live! We have many who have left the church for a time and returned (me for one). Let's face it, the things that one is 'xed' for are normal life for many inactive. When I returned to church, no one could have cared less what I did when I was inactive and that includes the bishop. No one cares what you did during your 'off period'. This is what I like most about the Lds people.

I would add that the teachings of Christ actually prohibit good Mormons from caring! (with a few controlled and limited exceptions of course - e.g., the bishop must be concerned to help the person through repentance).  If you are repenting and someone judges you, it is a sign of weakness in them, not you.

You will also find that, to some extent or another, most Mormons have experienced some form of the repentance process - more than you will ever know.  Most of us have been there.  We know how it is and remember how it felt to go through the repentance process, and we would never want to hinder someone going through their own repentance process.

Edited May 9, 2017 by DoctorLemon

[JohnsonJones]

Some of you must live in angelic wards.  Unfortunately, I have never been in a ward where there has not been a vicious gossip vine that extends to every corner (even inactives will seem to know the gossip) for all those in the "good ole boys" network (even though its says good ole boys, it's actually just a term, it includes many woman as well). Unfortunately, many times those who are NOT part of that network are the ones who are gossiped about the most.  It's a very terrible thing that happens and seems to be something that ostrasizes a LOT of members when they find out.  There are some inactives that are inactive because of this tendency, who were not part of this network (or sometimes even were) that found out what was said and thought of them and were so offended they left (and, in all honesty, anyone who thinks some of these things are a little thing to leave about...many of these rumors and gossips are excessively viscious and I couldn't really find fault with any who would leave any organization if they were treated that way, trying to say a church should be an exception when one would leave any other organization if the same treatment was done...is a rather cruel thought in and of itself).

That said, I'd rather they stay.  It is VERY hard to convince people to come back to church after that type of treatment, and in many cases it starts them down the road to apostasy (they start looking up things to support their dislike of how they were treated, get bad opinions of the church and it just goes downhill from there).

My mother is a horrendous gossip, and one I have no idea how to correct (we are supposed to honor our parents, fifth commandment if I recall right) her.  It's all she shares with me when I call her.  I dislike having it told me, but I don't want to be harsh to her in her (now very) old age.

In that light, I would NOT share the information of church punishments with anyone unless you absolutely HAVE too.  There are MANY people that do not wish to pray (or give talks on Sunday, finding people to give a talk sometimes is harder than some may imagine, it can be something you dread trying to find, there's a reason the family members of the bishopric end up being on the stand more often than others in some wards!) or other participation in ward meetings.  They don't have to give a reason.  There's no reason to divulge anything in that regards UNLESS part of the repentance process involves a public apology or admittance of some sort.

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

41 minutes ago, JohnsonJones said:

Some of you must live in angelic wards.  Unfortunately, I have never been in a ward where there has not been a vicious gossip vine that extends to every corner (even inactives will seem to know the gossip) for all those in the "good ole boys" network (even though its says good ole boys, it's actually just a term, it includes many woman as well). Unfortunately, many times those who are NOT part of that network are the ones who are gossiped about the most. 

Just as an aside:  This picqued my curiousity.  I am by and large naive to gossip.  This is partially by choice, and partially perhaps because I am the one being gossiped about?  Years ago, I remember hearing a couple sisters gossiping about another sister.  I ended my association with them.  That is what I mean by "choice".  I don't like gossip, and I don't care to spend time with those who do.  I suppose that puts me in the talked about territory, oh well.    I admit, I have become something of a recluse (by choice), so that puts me out of the stream of gossip also.
 

Quote

My mother is a horrendous gossip, and one I have no idea how to correct (we are supposed to honor our parents, fifth commandment if I recall right) her.  It's all she shares with me when I call her.  I dislike having it told me, but I don't want to be harsh to her in her (now very) old age.

I think it would be perfectly fine to lovingly put a stop to the gossip.  I don't mean that you should chastise her about gossiping in general, that's between her and the Lord, but you can absolutely ask her not to relay the stories to you.  Just say, "Mom, I'd rather not talk about that.  How is your arthritis?"  Or whatever.  Just say make your boudary and then guide the conversation elsewhere.

About honoring parents....this is something I have given a lot of thought...how would you honor a parent if they were abusive, neglectful etc.  You don't praise their behavior or make excuses for it.  I believe you honor them by the way you live your life.  When people see you and say, "Will you just look at JohnsonJones?  What a good man.  I wonder what his mother's secret is."  Then you are bringing honor to your mother  

Okay back the original topic....sorry for the hijack.