Free speech on campus and the Democrats who hate it.

[Vort]

https://kobi5.com/news/fresno-professor-confronts-pro-life-group-52759/

Let's not pretend this is an isolated attitude, or that this attitude is equally spread between political Left and Right. The modern American Brownshirts and purveyors of goodthink are dyed-in-the-wool members of the Democratic Party. My questions are: What can be done about this? Where does it end? Will college students need physical protection to voice unpopular religious or social opinions? Will this, in all seriousness, degenerate to posse actions? When college professors (as we have often seen in recent years) cannot be trusted to uphold free speech, but instead seek to stifle it, will anything short of armed insurrection restore our lost rights?

[Fether]

I'm not fully educated on the subject, but I'm pretty sure public schools have some more stipulations toward freedom of speech. If the speech interferes with classes/learning, is lewd or promotes drug use.

here is a link that explains it more (didn't look into reliability but it is in line with what I have previously understood): http://education-law.lawyers.com/school-law/freedom-of-expression-in-schools.html

But anways... I do agree and have considered those same concerns. Obviously you look at what happened to Berkeley... they just short of burnt the collegebto the ground and it seemed like it started when milo yiannopoulos, someone who muchbof the college strongly disagreed with, came to speak.

It is all really interesting... It seems to me the "freedom of speech" is not important to the far left. they take the right of it and use it to destroy itself in an attempt to push their own agenda. They are obsessed with equality, but trample the majority. They demand tolerance but spit on those with differing views.

They don't want any of that, they want what they want and will burn down cities and demean anyone who they believe is in their way. And even when they get it, they will find more problems (i.e. Feminism. All women believe in equality of sexes but not all women are feminists. Feminism in its true sense died out with women's sufferage. Now it's just a vile, vicious hate for men).

What can be done? Raise yourself and your family to stand up against it.

Where will it end? Perhaps when we start getting fined for referencing skin color by the color it is.

Will we need protection? Yes, the far left wants an overhaul of the system, how else is a revolution like that going to happen if not through a physical shut down of those that disagree... I won't back down, I don't think you will either. They will have to physically prevent us all from speaking up.

[Guest]

11 hours ago, Vort said:

https://kobi5.com/news/fresno-professor-confronts-pro-life-group-52759/

Let's not pretend this is an isolated attitude, or that this attitude is equally spread between political Left and Right. The modern American Brownshirts and purveyors of goodthink are dyed-in-the-wool members of the Democratic Party. My questions are: What can be done about this? Where does it end? Will college students need physical protection to voice unpopular religious or social opinions? Will this, in all seriousness, degenerate to posse actions? When college professors (as we have often seen in recent years) cannot be trusted to uphold free speech, but instead seek to stifle it, will anything short of armed insurrection restore our lost rights?

I believe I asked a question similar to that about a year and a half ago on this forum, and I got pounced on by people saying,"When would that ever be socially acceptable?  What scriptural basis do you have for that?"

My response that no one saw apparently:  Captain Moroni.

[Guest]

 

[Fether]

15 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

,"When would that ever be socially acceptable?  What scriptural basis do you have for that?"

My response that no one saw apparently:  Captain Moroni.

Ya... nothing the far left does is "socially acceptable". They don't want to use the constitution and other current freedoms to make a better world, they want a completely new set of laws.

[Guest]

Just now, Fether said:

Ya... nothing the far left does is "socially acceptable". They don't want to use the constitution and other current freedoms to make a better world, they want a completely new set of laws.

That was the entire basis of the Progressive Movement. It all started with Theodore Roosevelt.

https://thinkprogress.org/5-quotes-from-teddy-roosevelt-that-exemplify-what-it-means-to-be-a-progressive-a23ad0318987

The reason they are called "Progressives" is that Roosevelt said that we're now in an Era of Progress.  And because of that we can no longer be bound by the rules set for us by our predecessors.  They have no idea what it is like to live today. So, we should just do away with the Constitution altogether and do whatever we see fit today.

That is the literal origin of the Progressive movement.

[NeuroTypical]

Let's not forget this professor who was charged with assault: 

 

 

Actually, while we're at it, let's not forget the organized militant riots at UC Berkley for Milo, and Ann Coulter.  

Actually, while we're still at it, let's think about news stories like this, where the organized rioters actually show up armed with weapons:  The Berkeley rally aftermath: Mass arrests, a stabbing and weaponized Pepsi

Yes indeed - those are cans of Pepsi filled with concrete, to be used against windows or maybe people's skulls.  My anarchist buddy says the folks organizing the militant response are using "Black Bloc" tactics.  It's a term worth looking up on Wikipedia.   Yeah, when it gets to violence and organized militant response, we're probably stepping away from mainstream democrat thought, but maybe not as far as we used to.  How many people here actually knew about any of this stuff?  It's almost like the left-leaning mainstream media isn't covering it...

 

Edited May 16, 2017 by NeuroTypical

[Guest]

I just got "dressed down" by a bunch of Angry Hillary Voters.

My crime?  Suggesting that hey, maybe Trump is not wrong about everything.  Maybe that we can learn a thing or two from conservatives, even if we don't buy it all.  Maybe Trump is actually doing a pretty good job, notably on his handling of North Korea.

You would have thought I was promoting Stalinism from the reaction I got.

I am no fan of Breitbart or anything like that, but I have to admit that there is something sinister going on with the far left. . . most worrisome indeed.

Edited May 16, 2017 by DoctorLemon

[yjacket]

Well, I thank my stars I live in the USA with the good 'ol 2nd Amendment and not in Venezuala trying to overthrow a dictator.

Yeah guys that's great, they have troops with guns, APVs, water guns, tear gas and you have banderas soaked in vinegar, tin "shields" and molotov cocktails.  Yeah, like that's gonna really get you somewhere!!

The ugly truth is that Free Speech and rights is backed up by one thing and one thing only---violent force. If you've got it (the ability to execute violent force), it's hard to take away other rights and if you don't have it . . . good luck!!

If anything like a Maduro or a very, very serious threat to freedom came to town, I don't think we'd pussyfoot around like the Venezuela's . . .it'd be on like Donkey Kong-American Style. And it wouldn't look like this-give those people some weapons man . . . .  Thankfully, I still think that is a remote possibility but it is always there and and some points worse than other times.

 

 

[Guest MormonGator]

7 hours ago, DoctorLemon said:

I just got "dressed down" by a bunch of Angry Hillary Voters.

My crime?  Suggesting that hey, maybe Trump is not wrong about everything.  Maybe that we can learn a thing or two from conservatives, even if we don't buy it all.  Maybe Trump is actually doing a pretty good job, notably on his handling of North Korea.

You would have thought I was promoting Stalinism from the reaction I got.

I am no fan of Breitbart or anything like that, but I have to admit that there is something sinister going on with the far left. . . most worrisome indeed.

As a general rule, conservatives can handle dissent better than liberals. Yes, it's a generality and yes, there are exceptions but it's just something I've noticed in my life. 

[Guest]

29 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

As a general rule, conservatives can handle dissent better than liberals. Yes, it's a generality and yes, there are exceptions but it's just something I've noticed in my life. 

It was just very surprising.  The people I was talking with went straight from hearing my position to personal attacks and name calling.  No attempt to listen to reason, no attempt to explain themselves, just instant rage and name calling.  I was very surprised to see these people just flip out like that with so little provocation... just like what you see on the news...

[Guest MormonGator]

5 minutes ago, DoctorLemon said:

It was just very surprising.  The people I was talking with went straight from hearing my position to personal attacks and name calling.  No attempt to listen to reason, no attempt to explain themselves, just instant rage and name calling.  I was very surprised to see these people just flip out like that with so little provocation... just like what you see on the news...

Sorry you had to deal with this. It's a tough lesson that you learned. Those who scream about tolerance are only tolerant if you agree with them. The moment you do not, it's over. 

[Fether]

I'm personally VERY thankful for free speech. I can't imagine living in a nation where I had to be careful about what I say about the government.

The other day, my room mate was taking my American Flag off the wall as he helped me move out. In a joking manner he said "I can finally tear this junk down and put up the true flag!" (The flag of the country he served his mission in). It was really all the appropriate if a comment, but instead of being offended, I felt the spirit. Not the "confirming" type of feeling (thank goodness x) ), but a great feeling of gratitude for the freedom to voice your opinions. Though my friend did not mean what he said, he was safe to say it.

I absolutely love America. No matter what anyone says, this is a great country!

[Ironhold]

Meanwhile, in Tennessee...

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/05/11/tennessee-enacts-nations-most-comprehensive-campus-free-speech-law/

[Guest]

More feminism crying out for free abortion.  This time, she links abortion to climate control.

http://www.refinery29.com/2017/05/153643/gloria-steinem-exclusive-interview-create-cultivate-conference

What ever happened to desiring life?

[anatess2]

Well... did you hear that Laci Green (ex-Mormon), who is one of the popular Social Justice Warrior shills and abortion-supporters on the internet, got RED PILLED???  By no other than the transgender, Blaire White, of all people.  Why?  Because, after she decided to take on Blaire White on a 2-hour online live debate, her supporters went vicious-troll on her for even TALKING to "those sexist, racist, bigot, phobes"....  She got so hated on by her own people that she had to go social-media-dark for a few weeks.  Whereas, she got nothing but accolades and love and respect by the other side even as she talked over Blaire, interrupted Blaire, condescended, etc... just for the plain fact that she was brave enough to actually have a discussion.

So, anyway, long story short... Laci admitted that the aftermath of the debate made her think about whether she's on the right side of history...

So yeah.  I'm not worried about it.  The more INSANE the progressives get, the more reasonable the classic liberals and conservatives become.  Early indications from social media activity is showing that Generation Y are leaning heavily away from Democrats and moving right of center.  It's supported by logic - when Progressive Activism becomes "The Man", the natural inclination of the next generation is to fight against it.

Edited May 17, 2017 by anatess2

[Jamie123]

On 2017-5-16 at 2:00 PM, Carborendum said:

 

He said the F word naughty man! Plus he's almost as fat as I am! 

[Jamie123]

1 hour ago, anatess2 said:

Well... did you hear that Laci Green (ex-Mormon), who is one of the popular Social Justice Warrior shills and abortion-supporters on the internet, got RED PILLED???  By no other than the transgender, Blaire White, of all people.  Why?  Because, after she decided to take on Blaire White on a 2-hour online live debate, her supporters went vicious-troll on her for even TALKING to "those sexist, racist, bigot, phobes"....  She got so hated on by her own people that she had to go social-media-dark for a few weeks.  Whereas, she got nothing but accolades and love and respect by the other side even as she talked over Blaire, interrupted Blaire, condescended, etc... just for the plain fact that she was brave enough to actually have a discussion.

So, anyway, long story short... Laci admitted that the aftermath of the debate made her think about whether she's on the right side of history...

So yeah.  I'm not worried about it.  The more INSANE the progressives get, the more reasonable the classic liberals and conservatives become.  Early indications from social media activity is showing that Generation Y are leaning heavily away from Democrats and moving right of center.  It's supported by logic - when Progressive Activism becomes "The Man", the natural inclination of the next generation is to fight against it.

Laci Green is bonkers and has been for some time.

I remember a while ago hearing her say that if you are too drunk to drive you are too drunk for sex -  the implication being that anyone (i. e. any man)  who has sex with anyone (i.e. any woman)  beyond the legal limit is a rapist. 

Now I know Mormons are not supposed to drink alcohol or have extra marital sex anyway, but that is beside the point as Laci was talking about people in general. We can't apply religious principles to civil law. (Well we can,  but we won't get much support from anyone outside our own particular faith.)

I don't know about the US but in the UK you don't need to be very drunk at all to be too drunk to drive. Even two glasses of wine could be enough. In that condition you are perfectly aware and responsible and capable of making decisions but your reflexes are not fast enough to cope with the fast changing environment of the road. (Which is a good reason to ignore "legal limits" and not drink and drive at all. For the record I very rarely drink alcohol myself -  except of course at communion -  for one thing I can't afford it and for another I worry about my liver.)

I always saw Laci Green as the very epitome of the loony left, and but if she has herself been red pulled then things are loonier than I imagined. The closest thing I can think of happened a while back when Kent Hovind (then recently let out of prison) got hammered by the Flat Earthers! 

 

Edited May 17, 2017 by Jamie123
Stupid autocorrect

[Guest Godless]

On 5/16/2017 at 0:48 PM, DoctorLemon said:

I just got "dressed down" by a bunch of Angry Hillary Voters.

My crime?  Suggesting that hey, maybe Trump is not wrong about everything.  Maybe that we can learn a thing or two from conservatives, even if we don't buy it all.  Maybe Trump is actually doing a pretty good job, notably on his handling of North Korea.

You would have thought I was promoting Stalinism from the reaction I got.

I am no fan of Breitbart or anything like that, but I have to admit that there is something sinister going on with the far left. . . most worrisome indeed.

I'm sorry that happened to you. The best explanation I can give you is that many on the left are deliberately refusing to discuss Trump rationally, instead clinging to the "This is not normal" mentality. Therefore, anyone who tries to defend Trump is trying to normalize his presidency, and they refuse to let that happen. To be clear, I absolutely don't condone such attitudes and behaviors. Not because I necessarily disagree with the "This is not normal" mentality, but because vitriol and immature rhetoric are counterproductive to constructive discourse, which is a necessary catalyst for positive change. I get that people are angry, but there are ways to channel that anger to help your cause rather than hurt it. Congress is ripe for a massive upheaval in 2018, but only if the left can grow up and stop burning bridges.  

[anatess2]

On 5/17/2017 at 2:29 PM, Godless said:

I'm sorry that happened to you. The best explanation I can give you is that many on the left are deliberately refusing to discuss Trump rationally, instead clinging to the "This is not normal" mentality. Therefore, anyone who tries to defend Trump is trying to normalize his presidency, and they refuse to let that happen. To be clear, I absolutely don't condone such attitudes and behaviors. Not because I necessarily disagree with the "This is not normal" mentality, but because vitriol and immature rhetoric are counterproductive to constructive discourse, which is a necessary catalyst for positive change. I get that people are angry, but there are ways to channel that anger to help your cause rather than hurt it. Congress is ripe for a massive upheaval in 2018, but only if the left can grow up and stop burning bridges.  

Congress has been ripe for a massive upheaval for a long time now.  And so it got "upheaved"... in 2010, 2012, 2014... and with a gigantic blast in 2016.  State governments got "upheaved" too.  So, what you got here is a Democrat Party that just went extremely left as to make themselves irrelevant so that the classic liberals joined the Republicans and so now the Republicans are fighting among themselves - several splits:  1.) corrupt establishment versus idealists, 2.) liberals versus conservatives versus libertarians, 3.) policy wonks versus renegades, etc. etc... all within the Republican party .  So, the intense policy debates that were a natural and desired activity in the original design of the Constitution is now sardined inside just one party.  The other party is not engaging in policy debates.  They're just... mindless Resistance - which is stupid.

So, all this nastiness that is going on up in the Federal Government, these are the death throes of the old guard "establishment" and the legacy media.  When they realize they're dead or dying, they're going stop the death throes and they're either going to revamp themselves to join in on the policy debates or they're just going to become the crazy uncle in the corner.  Or maybe they're not as powerless as I think they are and they're going to succeed in wresting power back to themselves... and continue the decline of America until they become ancient Rome.

[Guest MormonGator]

On 5/17/2017 at 2:29 PM, Godless said:

 Congress is ripe for a massive upheaval in 2018, but only if the left can grow up and stop burning bridges.  

I think we already had massive upheavals with the tea party in 2010 and Trump in 2016

[Jamie123]

2 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

So, what you got here is a Democrat Party that just went extremely left as to make themselves irrelevant so that the classic liberals joined the Republicans

It's similar here sort-of. Labour (which is more-or-less Democrat give-or-take) was in government when they had a leader who was charismatic, dealt with realities (or what seemed at the time to be realities) rather than theoretical ideals and looked as though he had a clue what he was talking about. (He didn't as it turned out, but that's another story.) Now they have Jeremy Corbyn who seems to be a 70's/80's era socialist who's as dull as ditchwater to boot. The people who would have voted Labour had Tony Blair or someone like him still been in charge are going over to Theresa in droves. I'm tempted not to even bother voting this time, the result is a foregone conclusion. 

[anatess2]

There's a youtube video by Paul Joseph Watson titled "Idiots Respond to Man with Sign" that is a sad display of the state of Free Speech in the UK.  I won't link it because it has some foul language in it.

But basically, there's an Anti-fascist protest going on and this one guy was standing quietly and respectfully to the side holding up a sign that says "The Right to openly discuss ideas must be defended."  He got visciously - verbally and physically - attacked by a bunch of people calling him a... Nazi scum.  My favorite part of the video is a clip from the comedy show Mitchell and Webb where these 2 Nazi soldiers were talking and one guy asked... "Are we the baddies?"  LOL!

 

[NeuroTypical]

18 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

There's a youtube video by Paul Joseph Watson titled "Idiots Respond to Man with Sign" that is a sad display of the state of Free Speech in the UK.  I won't link it because it has some foul language in it.

Ok, I found the video.  What's the rest of the story here?  Who is the guy with the sign?  What's the rest of the context here?  Yes, all the stuff you described happened, but I'd like a little context.  

[anatess2]

40 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

Ok, I found the video.  What's the rest of the story here?  Who is the guy with the sign?  What's the rest of the context here?  Yes, all the stuff you described happened, but I'd like a little context.  

The antifa protest was held in Kingsland Road in Dalton against LD50 art gallery. If you don't know the background of the LD50 controversy, here's a write-up from The Guardian (leftist newspaper) that explains the antifa sentiment:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/feb/22/art-gallery-criticised-over-neo-nazi-artwork-and-hosting-racist-speakers

So, a call was made to do a counter-protest (Brexit supporters, et. al.) but they cancelled at the last minute due to concerns of violence erupting.  I'm not sure if this one guy did not get the memo or if he just went ahead and showed up anyway.  So, there were several people who are not sympathetic to the antifas just milling around on the sidelines out of curiousity.  So, this guy held up his sign and he got harassed, so these people on the sidelines surrounded him and pulled him to the side and away from the scene before he got hurt.

Here's a local newspaper article on the event:

http://www.hackneygazette.co.uk/news/politics/ld50-gallery-anti-fascist-protesters-march-through-dalston-1-4907083

 

Edited May 19, 2017 by anatess2