Parental Consent to Baptize

[CP1113]

My husband's ex-wife contacted him today stating that she needed him to give his written consent for my step-son to be baptized tonight. My husband told her no, he was not comfortable with this yet and felt that their son should be a bit older (he just turned 8 in March) and more mature so that he can make an educated decision. We are not Mormon, I am Episcopalian and my husband was raised Baptist. My husband is the sole managing conservator legally and his ex-wife has limited visitation and pretty much no decision making authority unless it's an emergency. Anyways, she got angry and told him that she didn't really NEED his permission and it was just a technicality. She then told us a few hours later that he was baptized without my husband's consent. A friend of mine told me tonight that this should not have been done since the church requires both parents' consent and when I looked it up, I found out that since they are divorced, the church would need the consent of the custodial parent which is my husband. What can we do about this? We have no idea how his ex got the Bishop to agree to this since he did not consent. Who do we contact? What can be done to rectify this? It's not that we are against him being baptized later on, but we want him to be old enough to understand the implications of what being baptized truly means. He is only 8 years old, he is only a part of the Mormon church when he visits his mother and that is only about 65 days out of the entire year. Plus, she has only been a member of the Mormon church for about 2 years now so it's not like this is something he's been exposed to his entire life. He's had very limited exposure to this church and we want him to have a full understanding of any religion he is baptized into prior to becoming a full member. 

[pam]

https://askgramps.org/is-it-legal-mormon-church-for-minor-be-baptized-without/

Last paragraph should answer this.

[CP1113]

Thank you! Should we contact the Bishop in her ward? How would we get a hold of them? 

[pam]

This is just my opinion mind you but if your husband feels that strongly about it I would say yes to contacting.  At least to letting him inform her Bishop how he feels about it.  If you know the ex-wife's address you could pm me and I could look up the ward and Bishop for you.

 

[CP1113]

Thank you! I just PMed you.

[pam]

4 minutes ago, CP1113 said:

Thank you! I just PMed you.

Just responded to you.

[Vort]

If the Gramps column Pam referenced is correct, you can have your stepson's baptism revoked. Latter-day Saints certainly believe in going in the front door, not sneaking around back. If your husband's ex-wife is a non-custodial parent and had her son baptized on the sly, then her actions were wrong (if understandable) and the child should not have been baptized. The Church depends on its members being honest in such cases, which it appears didn't happen this time.

That said, I don't understand your strong objection to the baptism. If you don't believe in Mormonism, then the baptism is (in your view) of no effect anyway. You believe that your stepson didn't really make any covenant with God; the baptism can be considered no more than a formalized bath. So wrong though the performance of the baptismal ordinance was, I'm struggling to see the problem with it.

[MarginOfError]

Your ex-wife may also be in violation of your custody agreement. You may have legal options your lawyer can discuss with you. (But not knowing the details of the custody agreement, I can't be sure).

Also, I would recommend that you request documentation that the ordinance has been revoked from Church headquarters. Please hold her and her leaders accountable to the violation of your trust and privilege as the custodial parent.

 

EDIT:

I will note here that church policy does not require that written consent be given by the custodial parent. The bishop is advised that he may ask for written consent if there is a question. So the local bishop you talk to may be clueless about the deception. I hope that is the case.

Edited June 22, 2017 by MarginOfError

[MarginOfError]

3 hours ago, Vort said:

If the Gramps column Pam referenced is correct, you can have your stepson's baptism revoked. Latter-day Saints certainly believe in going in the front door, not sneaking around back. If your husband's ex-wife is a non-custodial parent and had her son baptized on the sly, then her actions were wrong (if understandable) and the child should not have been baptized. The Church depends on its members being honest in such cases, which it appears didn't happen this time.

That said, I don't understand your strong objection to the baptism. If you don't believe in Mormonism, then the baptism is (in your view) of no effect anyway. You believe that your stepson didn't really make any covenant with God; the baptism can be considered no more than a formalized bath. So wrong though the performance of the baptismal ordinance was, I'm struggling to see the problem with it.

I imagine this is partially about the baptism, but largely about the violation of custodial rights. To demonstrate, imagine how you would feel if one of your children went to a public school (I never said this would be realistic, bear with me) and came home announcing that she had joined Christian Science at the behest of her teacher.

The religious insensitivity is only part ofcwhat is offensive here.

[Sunday21]

I agree that the noncustodial parent did not behave as she should but...what about the small person who was baptized and is about to have the baptism revoked? Why do this? Yes the custodial parent is entitled to revoke the baptism but is this a situation that one wishes to impose on an 8 year old? 

I wish parents would  occasionally consider whether or not, they want to have a relationship with their child when that child becomes an adult. If you want to continue that relationship, treat that child with respect and kindness. I visit my hometown from time to time and hear endless stories of adults who refuse to have a close relationship with their parents, told of course by the elderly relatives. Well I went to school with that kid and I know why the adult child stays away. Children have memories. Mistreat them and you may have a very lonely old age. 

[CP1113]

Our biggest issue isn't the baptism itself but the fact that when she asked for my husband's consent and he stated his opinion that this was not the time to do this and he would like to speak to my step-son about it beforehand and make sure he is well educated on the situation, she threw a fit, told my husband that her asking was merely a technicality and that she would just have him baptized anyway. So, rather than trying to co-parent with my husband and rather than talking this through with him weeks or months in advance as she should have, she threw a fit when he would not consent 3 hours before the baptism that he was unaware of before that time.

[Jane_Doe]

44 minutes ago, CP1113 said:

Our biggest issue isn't the baptism itself but the fact that when she asked for my husband's consent and he stated his opinion that this was not the time to do this and he would like to speak to my step-son about it beforehand and make sure he is well educated on the situation, she threw a fit, told my husband that her asking was merely a technicality and that she would just have him baptized anyway. So, rather than trying to co-parent with my husband and rather than talking this through with him weeks or months in advance as she should have, she threw a fit when he would not consent 3 hours before the baptism that he was unaware of before that time.

That is a VERY valid reason to be upset.  The mom acted VERY immaturely here.  The proper way to do things would have been to discuss it with your husband (her co-parent) and the son months beforehand, allowing everyone time to chat and understand each other.  Baptism should have been done with dad's precise consent as well.  Also it's just basic courtesy to invite you both to the baptism proper as well (with adequate forwarding to get the time off, etc).  You two could have also taken part in supporting son during the baptism itself too (both the act itself and in general).

Edited June 22, 2017 by Jane_Doe

[Maureen]

On 2017-6-22 at 7:15 AM, Sunday21 said:

...Yes the custodial parent is entitled to revoke the baptism but is this a situation that one wishes to impose on an 8 year old? 

...Mistreat them and you may have a very lonely old age. 

How is revoking a baptism on an 8 year old mistreating him?

M.

[MarginOfError]

2 hours ago, Maureen said:

How is revoking a baptism on an 8 year old mistreating him?

M.

Especially in the case of a baptism performed in violation of Church policy and potentially contrary to legal agreements. I think an 8 year old can understand, "we found out the preparations for your baptism weren't properly arranged. So you will get to be baptized again after we talk about it a little more."

[NightSG]

On 6/22/2017 at 8:15 AM, Sunday21 said:

I agree that the noncustodial parent did not behave as she should but...what about the small person who was baptized and is about to have the baptism revoked?

I seriously doubt the kid understands anyway, since the father didn't know this was coming until a few hours before the baptism.

OP says the mother only has him 65 days a year and she's only been a member for two years.  Even if those 65 days include all Sundays, that's nowhere near the amount of instruction that a child raised in the Church would have by 8.  Unless the father specifically avoids talking to the boy about religion at all, or the mother has told him not to tell his father, I can't imagine that the level of instruction appropriate to prepare a child for baptism wouldn't have had the boy asking his dad some questions.  

I have about the same number of days with my kids each year, my oldest is 8, and I'm sure I could coach her on the right answers, and she would go along with it.  What I couldn't do is give her enough information to make an informed decision and keep her mother from knowing unless I specifically told her to keep it secret from her mother.

There's also the question of the child deciding to become a member of another church later; what is the process for name removal for a minor?  Would it require the consent of both parents?  Some churches won't baptize a person again if they've ever been baptized in any Christian faith, so that could be an issue when he doesn't get to participate in the bigger part of the baptism-and-confirmation ceremony with his friends at 11-13 or whatever age.  While I've never heard of it being enforced on even an inactive member, joining another church is listed as grounds for excommunication, so it has to be considered as a possible consequence.  Obviously, if the boy remains a happy whatever for the rest of his life, an LDS excommunication would be nothing more than an amusing footnote, but if he decides to rejoin at some point, then it becomes an issue.

[Blueskye2]

On 6/21/2017 at 11:39 PM, CP1113 said:

My husband's ex-wife contacted him today stating that she needed him to give his written consent for my step-son to be baptized tonight. My husband told her no, he was not comfortable with this yet and felt that their son should be a bit older (he just turned 8 in March) and more mature so that he can make an educated decision. We are not Mormon, I am Episcopalian and my husband was raised Baptist. My husband is the sole managing conservator legally and his ex-wife has limited visitation and pretty much no decision making authority unless it's an emergency. Anyways, she got angry and told him that she didn't really NEED his permission and it was just a technicality. She then told us a few hours later that he was baptized without my husband's consent. A friend of mine told me tonight that this should not have been done since the church requires both parents' consent and when I looked it up, I found out that since they are divorced, the church would need the consent of the custodial parent which is my husband. What can we do about this? We have no idea how his ex got the Bishop to agree to this since he did not consent. Who do we contact? What can be done to rectify this? It's not that we are against him being baptized later on, but we want him to be old enough to understand the implications of what being baptized truly means. He is only 8 years old, he is only a part of the Mormon church when he visits his mother and that is only about 65 days out of the entire year. Plus, she has only been a member of the Mormon church for about 2 years now so it's not like this is something he's been exposed to his entire life. He's had very limited exposure to this church and we want him to have a full understanding of any religion he is baptized into prior to becoming a full member. 

 

She most likely has been taking him to church for two years.

Mormonism requires very limited exposure before being baptized. Two years is an extremely long time, in that context.