Why I hate the words "I'm sorry"

[NeuroTypical]

Because those words by themselves just aren't enough to convey true meaning.

Definition 1: Empathy, caring.  Someone tried something and hurt the other one, and they regret what they did because the other one got hurt.   They are willing to make amends, if they know what might help.

Definition 2: Self interest.  Someone tried something and got hurt, and they regret what they did because it got them hurt.  They are concerned about themselves, not the other person.  They usually want distance while they regroup or heal.

Definition 3: Criticism, blame, self-justification, defensiveness.  When Justin Timberlake ripped off Janet Jackson's top during their Superbowl halftime show in 2004, his apologies were basically  "I'm sorry you prudes got offended and it got harder for me to attend the Grammys" apology.  It's a self-justifying bastardization of an apology, the opposite of one.   Often includes claims of victimization or blaming others.

 

[Guest]

I'm sorry you feel that way. 

[NeuroTypical]

Also, this:

[Vort]

1 minute ago, NeuroTypical said:

Also, this:

True.

When I was 16, I drove grain truck for a local grass seed and wheat farmer. The roads were almost all unpaved dirt roads. The county would dig the gutters out and pile the dug-out soil in the middle of the county road, so that you had to drive in the narrow lane on one side or the other, because there was a large pile of dirt running right down the middle of the road.

One day, driving the truck (and remember I was 16), I misjudged the width of the lane. To my dismay, my right wheels when down in the three-foot-deep gutter. Two seconds later, I was sideways on the side of the road, the entire grain load spilled and my truck 90 degrees off-kilter. Mr. Farmer was furious. Not a little mad, but spitting mad, when he came and saw what I had done. He righted the truck (no real damage done except a little scratched paint), and we spend the next five hours picking up the grain by hand, in buckets, and putting it back in the truck. It's a vast understatement to say I was humiliated. I finally did apologize to him, which made him even madder. What kind of an idiot was I, that I would say "I'm sorry" for turning the *@# truck over!

Not sure I've ever told anyone this story before. I'm probably about the age now that Mr. Farmer was when this happened, and I'm still humiliated by it (though not so humiliated that I won't tell it). So that's how I learned that some things are so incredibly stupid that you just don't bother to say "Sorry" for them, because you look even more idiotic that you otherwise would.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Vort said:

So that's how I learned that some things are so incredibly stupid that you just don't bother to say "Sorry" for them, because you look even more idiotic that you otherwise would.

I'm not so sure about that.  I believe that some circumstances are such that doing anything good or bad or doing nothing will change absolutely nothing.  The person wronged will simply be mad.

I went to pick up one of them up from a birthday party for a friend at some pizza parlor driving my sister and BIL's van.  It was a discontinued model of a Toyota that had an extremely tight turning radius.  While there, the only parking space left was for a compact vehicle.  I was told that the narrow profile of the van qualified.  So, I went for it.

I misjudged the turning radius and scraped the bumper of the neighboring car.  It barely scratched it.  But the van door had a nice groove in it.  Well, you can guess what happened.

I felt so bad that "sorry" just wasn't going to cut it.  And I knew it.  It was bad.  There was nothing I could do.  You know what my BIL's reaction was?  "Why didn't you at least say you were sorry?!?  Maybe you can fix it. Maybe you can't.  But you didn't even bother to say you were sorry?

See, it doesn't matter.  It was a pooch-screw and there's no way you can expect anything other than them getting pressure-cooker-off-the-top-of-a-steam-engine-mad-at-you.

[Sunday21]

I have heard that if a doctor says sorry, he/she is less likely to be sued!

[anatess2]

I grew up never hearing the words I Love You and I'm Sorry from my parents.  It wasn't until my brother married an American that we started saying those words because she says it a lot and so we felt obliged to say it back.  The way I was raised, Love and Sorry are not things to say but things to do.

Edited July 22, 2017 by anatess2

[Mike]

7 hours ago, Sunday21 said:

I have heard that if a doctor says sorry, he/she is less likely to be sued!

Hahaha, that reminds me of an old Bill Cosby standup routine about a dentist who says, "Oops"

[Mike]

18 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

I grew up never hearing the words I Love You and I'm Sorry from my parents.  It wasn't until my brother married an American that we started saying those words because she says it a lot and so we felt obliged to say it back.  The way I was raised, Love and Sorry are not things to say but things to do.

Trying to stay faithful to the OP, I feel obliged to respect the customs and traditions of others. And I have observed that one person's actions are another person's substitutes for words; and one person's words are another person's "all too easy way off the hook" not desiring to act. But personally I prefer words *and* actions. 

[NeuroTypical]

17 hours ago, Vort said:

I finally did apologize to him, which made him even madder. What kind of an idiot was I, that I would say "I'm sorry" for turning the *@# truck over!

And with his response, I bet you moved from definition 1 (regret for the grief you gave the farmer) to definition 2 (regret you said anything because it hurt) in a heartbeat.  Yeah?

[Vort]

18 hours ago, NeuroTypical said:

And with his response, I bet you moved from definition 1 (regret for the grief you gave the farmer) to definition 2 (regret you said anything because it hurt) in a heartbeat.  Yeah?

Probably, to some extent.

[NeuroTypical]

Well, I'm sorry that happened.  Making mistakes and feeling guilt is part of growing up.  Having it turned into humiliation and shame can leave marks.

[zil]

1 hour ago, NeuroTypical said:

Well, I'm sorry

[unixknight]

I think an apology is always warranted.  You can't control how the other person will take it, but it should always be offered.  Sometimes it might be wise  to wait until they've calmed down a bit, but never just let it go without being said.

What I really, really get irritated about is what I like to call "the conditional apology" which is basically like #3 in the OP.  "I'm sorry if I offended you."

Why would you ever phrase an apology like that?  Ether you're sorry or you aren't.  There's no reason to put the "if" in there unless you are using a backdoor method to show that you don't really feel remorse because maybe you don't want to admit you messed up in the first place.  If I say to someone "I'm sorry if I hurt you" that sounds a lot like I'm refusing to acknowledge that I actually did, in fact, hurt them.  Sure, if I really did hurt them I'd feel sorry about it, but maybe I'm not willing to admit that I did.  and out comes the conditional.  (This is also sometimes known as a fauxpology.) 

If you're apologizing, say you're sorry that you did it.  None of this "if" garbage.  and if you don't feel you did anything wrong in the first place, then don't even say anything. 

/rant

[Jamie123]

British people are always apologizing - especially for things that are not our fault. When someone bumps into us we fume inwardly, but at the same time we say "I'm sorry" almost by reflex.

The oddest kind of apology has got to be the "I'm sorry, but..." apology.

• "I'm sorry, but you should really think twice before betting all the housekeeping money on  a 20-to-one 'cert' at Aintree,"
• "I'm sorry, but if you will stuff yourself with cream cake all afternoon you can expect to feel a little queezy."
• "I'm sorry, but I could have told you that policeman wouldn't appreciate you knocking his helmet off 'for a joke'."
• "I'm sorry, but you should really have asked me before deciding to store piranha in the kiddies' paddling pool." 

Edited July 24, 2017 by Jamie123

[Backroads]

I suspect this is one of those culture things. I'm from a sorry culture. I use it to express empathy, regret, comisseration, those being sufficient meanings under the definition of "sorry". And I know people of this culture who would be offended if "sorry" wasn't used.

I understand the OP perspective where sorry is just of useless, but I don't think that way.

[NeuroTypical]

Oh, don't get me wrong, I'm a huge fan of what I called definition 1 (empathy and caring) and definition 2 (self-maintenance).  Both are good things, appropriate as circumstances dictate.  It's the ambiguity (sometimes intentional) that gives me grief.  When folks say "I'm sorry" as a way to appear empathetic, while in reality they're just saying "well that sure came back to bite me", or some such.

Of all the humans, English-speaking humans seem to frustrate me the most.  Darn you, unspecific vague culturally-driven language!  

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Jamie123 said:

British people are always apologizing - especially for things that are not our fault. When someone bumps into us we fume inwardly, but at the same time we say "I'm sorry" almost by reflex.

The oddest kind of apology has got to be the "I'm sorry, but..." apology.

• "I'm sorry, but you should really think twice before betting all the housekeeping money on  a 20-to-one 'cert' at Aintree,"
• "I'm sorry, but if you will stuff yourself with cream cake all afternoon you can expect to feel a little queezy."
• "I'm sorry, but I could have told you that policeman wouldn't appreciate you knocking his helmet off 'for a joke'."
• "I'm sorry, but you should really have asked me before deciding to store piranha in the kiddies' paddling pool." 

Quote

You only killed the bride's father.

Oh, sorry.  Didn't mean to.

Didn't mean to?  You put your sword right through his head.

Oh, dear.  Is he alright?

 

[anatess2]

On 7/22/2017 at 3:00 PM, Mike said:

Trying to stay faithful to the OP, I feel obliged to respect the customs and traditions of others. And I have observed that one person's actions are another person's substitutes for words; and one person's words are another person's "all too easy way off the hook" not desiring to act. But personally I prefer words *and* actions. 

There's no word for "Hi" in my language.  Saying "Hi" is superfluous - we make eye contact... that's a Hi.  Maybe a nod if we know each other.  A smile.  Or we just start talking about what we want to talk about.  Or we just don't bother to make eye contact or nod or smile... doesn't mean we're ignoring people.  How do you know?  Walk while crying... you won't last 10 yards without somebody trying to find out what's wrong and how to make you feel better.  But yes, many Bisaya-speaking people say Hi... it's an indication of the western influence in our society.

Yes, words becomes meaningless without actions to support it.  Actions without words is sufficient.

There's this movie - Arrival - that hits the nail on the head when it comes to language.  Learning a language is more than just learning words.  Learning a language is learning how to act in the same way the people who speak that language do.  Filipinos grow up learning to speak English - it affected their culture.  It used to be that what we say is not taken seriously unless what we do supports it.  So, a Filipino mom disciplining her kids would say things like - "I'm gonna sell you to that man on the street.  He will drain your blood and pour it over the bridge!".  The kid is not hearing the words, he's hearing the tone of that voice... and maybe the flipflop on one hand ready to swing... so, yes.  He knows his mom will never sell him to the man on the street.  But, he also knows he's in big trouble.

So, for the Bisaya people, saying I'm sorry means nothing.  What you do is what means something.

Edited July 24, 2017 by anatess2

[Mike]

On 7/24/2017 at 9:40 AM, anatess2 said:

There's no word for "Hi" in my language.  Saying "Hi" is superfluous - we make eye contact... that's a Hi.  Maybe a nod if we know each other.  A smile.  Or we just start talking about what we want to talk about.  Or we just don't bother to make eye contact or nod or smile... doesn't mean we're ignoring people.  How do you know?  Walk while crying... you won't last 10 yards without somebody trying to find out what's wrong and how to make you feel better.  But yes, many Bisaya-speaking people say Hi... it's an indication of the western influence in our society.

Yes, words becomes meaningless without actions to support it.  Actions without words is sufficient.

There's this movie - Arrival - that hits the nail on the head when it comes to language.  Learning a language is more than just learning words.  Learning a language is learning how to act in the same way the people who speak that language do.  Filipinos grow up learning to speak English - it affected their culture.  It used to be that what we say is not taken seriously unless what we do supports it.  So, a Filipino mom disciplining her kids would say things like - "I'm gonna sell you to that man on the street.  He will drain your blood and pour it over the bridge!".  The kid is not hearing the words, he's hearing the tone of that voice... and maybe the flipflop on one hand ready to swing... so, yes.  He knows his mom will never sell him to the man on the street.  But, he also knows he's in big trouble.

So, for the Bisaya people, saying I'm sorry means nothing.  What you do is what means something.

Remembering the movie Arrival I agree that learning a language is more than just words. And I remember that it wasn't just the humans that were compelled to expand their "world view" of what language is. It's important to remember that the "aliens" were also compelled to have expanded their view (although they probably had enjoyed a much longer learning curve than the humans had to work through). 

With eye contact, and a smile, and a nod to the Bisaya People I just want to put it out there that to my people saying "sorry, I'm sorry, I'm so sorry" means a great deal. My people believe it's just a minuscule example of why God gave us lips and a voice box to begin with. My people don't find "hi"  to be superfluous at all. We find it endearing or hypocritical or anywhere else along a spectrum of meanings depending upon circumstances. There's more, but I won't belabor it. We love eye contact although we've learned that with some other people any eye contact at all has occasionally been grounds for killing--again depending upon who we made eye contact with. I think the trick in any event and with any people, group, individual, etc. is to pay attention to the other person just as much as, and perhaps more than, we pay to ourselves.  

 

Edited July 30, 2017 by Mike

[anatess2]

1 hour ago, Mike said:

Remembering the movie Arrival I agree that learning a a language is more than just words. And I remember that it wasn't just the humans that were compelled to expand their "world view" of what language is. It's important to remember that the "aliens" were also compelled to have expanded their view (although they probably had enjoyed a much longer learning curve than the humans had to work through). 

With eye contact, and a smile, and a nod to the Bisaya People I just want to put it out there that to my people saying "sorry, I'm sorry, I'm so sorry" means a great deal. My people believe it's just a minuscule example of why God gave us lips and a voice box to begin with. My people don't find "hi"  to be superfluous at all. We find it endearing or hypocritical or anywhere else along a spectrum of meanings depending upon circumstances. There's more, but I won't belabor it. We love eye contact although we've learned that with some other people any eye contact at all has occasionally been grounds for killing--again depending upon who we made eye contact with. I think the trick in any event and with any people, group, individual, etc. is to pay attention to the other person just as much as, and perhaps more than, we pay to ourselves.  

 

For the Bisaya, God gave us a voice box for karaoke.

 

[Mike]

1 minute ago, anatess2 said:

For the Bisaya, God gave us a voice box for karaoke.

 

Hahaha, for "my people" thank Heavens for karaoke!

[Jamie123]

17 hours ago, Carborendum said:

You only killed the bride's father.

Oh, sorry.  Didn't mean to.

Didn't mean to?  You put your sword right through his head.

Oh, dear.  Is he alright?

He's getting better!

[Guest]

5 hours ago, Jamie123 said:

He's getting better!

Before I even put together that you were a Brit and Askandanswer was an Aussie, for some reason I kept getting the two of you mixed up.  So, I found it strange whenever you would mention something about your church