Should we 'out' fellow church goers?

[askandanswer]

5 hours ago, Carborendum said:

to

 

[Suzie]

If the person is committing a grievous criminal act such as abuse I would contact the police immediately and the local Church authorities. In that order.

[Suzie]

3 hours ago, Fether said:

I saw my neighbor eat cheerios on fast Sunday during the sacrament. You bet I told the stake president!

I knew it. You sound like those who eat bran cereal with no added sugar.

[Fether]

19 minutes ago, Suzie said:

I knew it. You sound like those who eat bran cereal with no added sugar.

It is what makes me better than everyone else

[Suzie]

3 hours ago, Fether said:

It is what makes me better than everyone else

You are vegan? Wow...

[Sunday21]

6 hours ago, Carborendum said:

You must be an extremely attractive woman.  

Don't let their behavior change who you are.  You're a wonderful and faithful woman.  Stay that way.

I think we can discount that assertion! I think that I live a long way fron Utah!

[askandanswer]

I suspect that LDS approaches to this situations are influenced by perhaps too much weight being given to some doctrines, and not enough weight given to others. The doctrines that are perhaps given too much weight are that every man is responsible for their own salvation, to judge not that ye be not judged, and a great reliance on the capacity of Bishops to receive inspiration about their members. The doctrines that are perhaps not being given enough weight are to love one another and to love our neighbours as ourselves and that we are indeed our brother’s keeper. I suspect that an incorrect notion that the idea of “telling on someone” is a bad thing also influences our behaviour in these kinds of situations. In reality, the truth is that any action which could lead an individual to repentance is likely to be a good action, and when we see a brother or sister fall, we should not pass them by, but help them to stand up again and encourage them to seek assistance from someone who can aid with healing any injuries they may have suffered from their fall.

I believe that the most recent word of the Lord on how we should respond to situations like this was given by Elder Christofferson in the Sunday afternoon session of General Conference when he said

While the duty to warn is felt especially keenly by prophets, it is a duty shared by others as well. In fact, “it becometh every man who hath been warned to warn his neighbor.”¹¹ We who have received a knowledge of the great plan of happiness—and its implementing commandments—should feel a desire to share that knowledge since it makes all the difference here and in eternity. And if we ask, “Who is my neighbor that I should warn?” surely the answer will be found in a parable that begins, “A certain man went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among thieves,”¹² and so forth.

https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2017/04/the-voice-of-warning?lang=eng

[askandanswer]

7 hours ago, Sunday21 said:

Dear Hubbers,

I was thinking of community values for lds and other church goers. Should we out those who misbehave? I was sexually harassed on a couple of occasions at church. Guy rubbed up against me as I tried to wrap myself around a neighbour to get away. This guy has a history of sexual harassment going back many decades according to his wife. I told the bishop. Shortly after he got a position in the Elder's Quorum and he now gives the sacrament prayer. I figure that I did my bit and I have no more obligations. Maybe, Mr. Rubber has turned over a new leaf.

I was also thinking of the young missionary who behaved very badly with a young investigator as described yesterday. In some communities this would be something that should be reported.

I have noticed that lds people don't tend to report. I had guys behave very badly on dates and when I told the Single Adult co-coordinator, I was clearly the only person who said anything.

So is this a lds/church community value? We don't squeal? We let people repent? I am thinking that this is the case.

In the area where I first joined the church, sexual harassment of young women by church leaders was a problem. How do I know? I went for counselling to LDS family services and a counselor gave me the gruesome details.

Anyway, what are your thoughts?

if the behaviour was committed by a single sister from southern Ontario, you bet I would out it. I would tell the bishop. I would tell his counsellors. I would tell the previous bishop, and the local newspaper, the Relief Society President, the prophet, the Stake President, the assistant nursery leader, the Dean of the local university, prospective dating partners, the local police, the president of the P&C and everyone else I could think of. And you know what? None of them would be surprised. Problem is, if I did this everytime there was some misbehaviour from this person I'd never have time to do anything else, even if I had ten assistants! 

[Sunday21]

41 minutes ago, askandanswer said:

if the behaviour was committed by a single sister from southern Ontario, you bet I would out it. I would tell the bishop. I would tell his counsellors. I would tell the previous bishop, and the local newspaper, the Relief Society President, the prophet, the Stake President, the assistant nursery leader, the Dean of the local university, prospective dating partners, the local police, the president of the P&C and everyone else I could think of. And you know what? None of them would be surprised. Problem is, if I did this everytime there was some misbehaviour from this person I'd never have time to do anything else, even if I had ten assistants! 

Dear @askandanswer Nice to know I have a friend in you! Yes if you outed everyone who crossed you, then you would have no time to do anything else.

[Backroads]

I once found a coffee cup in the building on Fast Sunday. I think I shared the photo here, but I never mentioned I also sent the photo to the First Presidency.

[NightSG]

9 hours ago, Snigmorder said:

84 And if a man or woman shall rob, he or she shall be delivered up unto the law of the land.

85 And if he or she shall steal, he or she shall be delivered up unto the law of the land.

I note it says nothing of how he should be packaged for delivery.  My personal preference is hog tying, with force applied as necessary to achieve that goal.

[Suzie]

23 hours ago, Sunday21 said:

Dear Hubbers,

I was thinking of community values for lds and other church goers. Should we out those who misbehave? I was sexually harassed on a couple of occasions at church. Guy rubbed up against me as I tried to wrap myself around a neighbour to get away. This guy has a history of sexual harassment going back many decades according to his wife. I told the bishop. Shortly after he got a position in the Elder's Quorum and he now gives the sacrament prayer. I figure that I did my bit and I have no more obligations. Maybe, Mr. Rubber has turned over a new leaf.

I was also thinking of the young missionary who behaved very badly with a young investigator as described yesterday. In some communities this would be something that should be reported.

I have noticed that lds people don't tend to report. I had guys behave very badly on dates and when I told the Single Adult co-coordinator, I was clearly the only person who said anything.

So is this a lds/church community value? We don't squeal? We let people repent? I am thinking that this is the case.

In the area where I first joined the church, sexual harassment of young women by church leaders was a problem. How do I know? I went for counselling to LDS family services and a counselor gave me the gruesome details.

Anyway, what are your thoughts?

I believe it is a combination of things. First, regardless of whether it is Church or not people are afraid to report others. If the issue is someone smoking or drinking, most of the time there aren't any issues and because we all are imperfect, we rationalize it in a way and believe the person is probably going through a hard time and needs our support and not our judgment.

However, in serious situations like you described above the take is a little different. Sometimes it is embarrassment because the victim think they have done something wrong, sometimes it is fear to retaliation or if the person is a respected member of society or Church in this case, they are afraid no one would believe them after all "Brother X is incapable of such thing, he is a great father and husband..." and "Sister Y is one of the sweetest sisters in RS..."

I am a firm believer in keeping our eyes wide open in ALL places, including Church. In these last days, we need to be vigilant and not put anyone in a pedestal or believe a particular person is not capable of doing "x". We simply do not know. I believe each one of us has the potential for doing great things  but also the natural man has the potential to do great harm.

It doesn't mean we need to be paranoid but wise and observant.

Reporting a member to law enforcement who is sexually harassing you (generally "you")  or someone else is the right thing to do. For you and for other possible victims. It does not take away our ability to feel compassion for the perpetrator but we should never confuse compassion with condoning.