Is it a sin to go against the cousel of the Prophet?

[unixknight]

12 hours ago, Fether said:

Don’t get me wrong, I absolutely love soda!

Im trying to quit drinking it right now cause I know there are immense health benefits. I think that is where the counsel comes in at. 

The phrase “Mormons don’t do ‘x’” is somewhat misleading. In the 60 minutes video president Hinckley was hit with “Mormons live by a law of health, you can’t...” and listed off all the things Latter-day Saints cant partake of, on which caffeinated drinks was mentioned. 

We as a society of saints we only list temple worthy related actions as things we “have” to do. But how many temple worthy members are there that don’t take care of their bodies, are kind to their neighbor, actively fulfill their ministering duties.

From what I see, the “commandments” are  required for activity in the church here in earth where has the “counsel” will undoubtedly be connected to our eventual salvation.

Yeah I'm in the same boat, in trying to cut down the soda to take better care of myself. 

I think we may see things from opposite views.  I see counsel as good advice temporally that supports and facilitates a more spiritual lifestyle.  It promotes health, focus and removes spirotual distractions.  So in that way I would describe 'counsel' as temporal with 'commandments' being things that have eternal implications.

Either way, not bad things to do, of course, but I don't feel right using the word 'sin' to describe something that doesn't have spititual consequences.

[unixknight]

4 hours ago, Grunt said:

I'm currently in D.C. on business.  I'm fairly confident my limited recommend would have been revoked if the Bishop had been in the car with me after my plane landed.

Welcome to DC.  Now you know why I refuse to work in the city or cross into VA anymore.  (I actually live in MD and work in Baltimore.)

[Fether]

1 hour ago, unixknight said:

Either way, not bad things to do, of course, but I don't feel right using the word 'sin' to describe something that doesn't have spititual consequences.

I would argue there are spiritual consequences.

If I play rated M video games or watch inappropriate PG-13 movies, I’m not breaking “commandments” but the content is harming me spiritually.

I make the same arguement for not taking care of my body through exercise and healthy foods. Throughout my life I hav experiences regimented diets and exercise as well as over eating, laziness and junk food. I had a much higher spiritual awareness when I take care of my body. I believe how well I take care of my body here will reflect on my ultimate reward in heaven.

Off hand I can’t think of references from prophets backing this, but I know they are there. I just don’t have time to look for them.

It ultimately comes down to this: all things are spiritual and at no time has God given us a commandment that is purely temporal (D&C 29:34-35). It all comes down to D&C 82:3 “For of him unto whom much is given much is required; and he who sins against the greater light shall receive the greater condemnation.”

I know a man that refuses to watch any movie because even the slightest sense of immorality drives the spirit away and he won’t risk running into that in the theaters. This includes marvel movies and StarWars. I fully believe he is living a higher law than I am and will receive a greater reward than me if we were both to face God in judgment today. We may both receive enterance into the Celestial Kingdom, but he will reach exaltation long before I do.

[Just_A_Guy]

44 minutes ago, Fether said:

I would argue there are spiritual consequences.

If I play rated M video games or watch inappropriate PG-13 movies, I’m not breaking “commandments” but the content is harming me spiritually.

I make the same arguement for not taking care of my body through exercise and healthy foods. Throughout my life I hav experiences regimented diets and exercise as well as over eating, laziness and junk food. I had a much higher spiritual awareness when I take care of my body. I believe how well I take care of my body here will reflect on my ultimate reward in heaven.

Off hand I can’t think of references from prophets backing this, but I know they are there. I just don’t have time to look for them.

It ultimately comes down to this: all things are spiritual and at no time has God given us a commandment that is purely temporal (D&C 29:34-35). It all comes down to D&C 82:3 “For of him unto whom much is given much is required; and he who sins against the greater light shall receive the greater condemnation.”

I know a man that refuses to watch any movie because even the slightest sense of immorality drives the spirit away and he won’t risk running into that in the theaters. This includes marvel movies and StarWars. I fully believe he is living a higher law than I am and will receive a greater reward than me if we were both to face God in judgment today. We may both receive enterance into the Celestial Kingdom, but he will reach exaltation long before I do.

I agree with this; but I’d also agree with @unixknight in that I’m not sure how useful the term “sin” really is anymore in modern discourse—not because there’s no such thing; but because in modern times the term has so much social baggage attached to it.  The core issue really is whether an activity facilitates, or distracts from, our individual quests for exaltation.

[Vort]

1 hour ago, Fether said:

If I play rated M video games or watch inappropriate PG-13 movies, I’m not breaking “commandments” but the content is harming me spiritually.

Pretty sure Elder Christofferson said that it's okay to play M-rated video games and watch inappropriate PG-13 movies.

[Fether]

27 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

The core issue really is whether an activity facilitates, or distracts from, our individual quests for exaltation.

Which in simpler terms is “sin”. gospel topics definition of “sin” includes failing to do what we know we ought to.

but you are right, todays meaning carries baggage making it difficult to use in its true sense. 

This frustrates me to no end x)

[Vort]

3 hours ago, zil said:

My primary goal in life is to ensure that at the resurrection, everyone will celebrate when they learn I've been cast into outer darkness.

We'll have quite the reunion. All those people who suck so very, very much, together in one place! It will be like a raging black hole of decency and spirituality, voraciously sucking all righteousness into its insatiable maw! As I recall, the party will explicitly include you, me, Carb, Needle, TFP, NT, JAG, Fether, pam, anatess, and several other of this list's nefarious regulars. A real who's who of sin and debauchery.

[Fether]

15 minutes ago, Vort said:

Pretty sure Elder Christofferson said that it's okay to play M-rated video games and watch inappropriate PG-13 movies.

That was only counsel, we don’t need to listen to that.

[zil]

3 minutes ago, Vort said:

We'll have quite the reunion. All those people who suck so very, very much, together in one place! It will be like a raging black hole of decency and spirituality, voraciously sucking all righteousness into its insatiable maw! As I recall, the party will explicitly include you, me, Carb, Needle, TFP, NT, JAG, Fether, pam, anatess, and several other of this list's nefarious regulars. A real who's who of sin and debauchery. 

Dang!  I was looking forward to some alone time.  But I guess if I have to get sucked into an insatiable maw with someone, that's a pretty good crowd to be with.

[zil]

3 minutes ago, Fether said:

That was only counsel, we don’t need to listen to that.

That was nicely done.

[Fether]

2 minutes ago, zil said:

Dang!  I was looking forward to some alone time.  But I guess if I have to get sucked into an insatiable maw with someone, that's a pretty good crowd to be with.

Last I heard... Outer Darkness was sponsored BiC pens

[unixknight]

17 minutes ago, Fether said:

That was only counsel, we don’t need to listen to that.

Well played, good sir.

[Fether]

@unixknight

here is a quote that somewhat explains the idea I was trying to convey above. It is quite long but fill of good gems.

”There are even many members of the church who are lax and careless and who continually procrastinate. They live the gospel casually but not devoutly. They have complied with some requirements but are not a valiant. They do no major crime by merely fail to do the things required. Things like paying tithing, living the word of wisdom, having family prayers, fasting, attending meetings, serving. Perhaps they do not consider such omissions to be sins, yet these for the kinds of things which the five foolish virgins of Jesus parable we’re probably guilty. The 10 virgins being launch it to the kingdom and had every right to the blessings. Except at five we’re not Valliant and we’re not ready when the great day came. They were unprepared through not living all the commandments. They were barely disappointed at being shut out from the marriage. As likewise there modern counterparts will be… it is true that many latter day saints, having been baptized and confirmed members of the church, and some even having received their endowments and having been married and sealed in the holy temple, I felt that they were the scare and teed the blessings of exaltation and eternal life. But this is not so there are two basic requirements every so much for sale or he can obtain to that great blessing offered. He must receive the ordinances and he must be faithful, overcoming his weaknesses. Hence not all who claim to be latter-day Saints will be exalted.”

- Spencer W Kimball

A friend of mine once suggested “I don’t think as many of us who believe we will be in the Celestial Kingdom will actually be there.” Not doctrinal, but just something to think about.

 

as an unrelated side note. When I read your name in my mind, I read it “unisex-knight”.

Edited September 7, 2018 by Fether

[Just_A_Guy]

23 minutes ago, Vort said:

We'll have quite the reunion. All those people who suck so very, very much, together in one place! It will be like a raging black hole of decency and spirituality, voraciously sucking all righteousness into its insatiable maw! As I recall, the party will explicitly include you, me, Carb, Needle, TFP, NT, JAG, Fether, pam, anatess, and several other of this list's nefarious regulars. A real who's who of sin and debauchery.

Well, as they say, you go to Heaven for the weather; but to Hell for the company.  

[Guest MormonGator]

2 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

Well, as they say, you go to Heaven for the weather; but to Hell for the company.  

"I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints."-Philosopher William Joel. 

[Fether]

1 minute ago, MormonGator said:

"I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints."-Philosopher William Joel. 

It was actually Billy Joel, not William Joel (  )

Edited September 7, 2018 by Fether

[Guest MormonGator]

Just now, Fether said:

It was actually Billy Joel, not William Joel

I heard he wasn't a philosopher either. 

[mordorbund]

36 minutes ago, zil said:

an insatiable maw

capacitor

[zil]

16 minutes ago, Fether said:

as an unrelated side note. When I read your name in my mind, I read it “unisex-knight”.

Clearly you've been using Windows (or Apple) too long and need to brush up on your *nix.

[unixknight]

32 minutes ago, Fether said:

@unixknight

here is a quote that somewhat explains the idea I was trying to convey above. It is quite long but fill of good gems.

”There are even many members of the church who are lax and careless and who continually procrastinate. They live the gospel casually but not devoutly. They have complied with some requirements but are not a valiant. They do no major crime by merely fail to do the things required. Things like paying tithing, living the word of wisdom, having family prayers, fasting, attending meetings, serving. Perhaps they do not consider such omissions to be sins, yet these for the kinds of things which the five foolish virgins of Jesus parable we’re probably guilty. The 10 virgins being launch it to the kingdom and had every right to the blessings. Except at five we’re not Valliant and we’re not ready when the great day came. They were unprepared through not living all the commandments. They were barely disappointed at being shut out from the marriage. As likewise there modern counterparts will be… it is true that many latter day saints, having been baptized and confirmed members of the church, and some even having received their endowments and having been married and sealed in the holy temple, I felt that they were the scare and teed the blessings of exaltation and eternal life. But this is not so there are two basic requirements every so much for sale or he can obtain to that great blessing offered. He must receive the ordinances and he must be faithful, overcoming his weaknesses. Hence not all who claim to be latter-day Saints will be exalted.”

- Spencer W Kimball

A friend of mine once suggested “I don’t think as many of us who believe we will be in the Celestial Kingdom will actually be there.” Not doctrinal, but just something to think about.

 

as an unrelated side note. When I read your name in my mind, I read it “unisex-knight”.

All makes sense.

Here's the bottom line (for me, at least): A sin is disobedience to God.  If a "rule" comes from God, it is a commandment.  Counsel comes from mortal leaders.  It is not the same thing.  To call it a sin to not follow counsel is to suggest that it is sin to disobey a mortal.  

There are organizations that teach that it is a sin to disobey the instructions of mortal leaders.  We have a word word that.  "Cult."  We are not a cult because our leaders are careful to differentiate between their own counsel and actual commandments from God.  We know what those are.  To disregard them is to make ourselves unworthy to go to the Temple at least, or face disciplinary action in more serious cases.  There's a pretty clear line, and that's important.

Oh, and yeah like @zil noted, it's a reference to the UNIX operating system and its variants. (for anyone who didn't realize that)

Edited September 7, 2018 by unixknight

[Vort]

17 minutes ago, mordorbund said:

capacitor

 

[Guest MormonGator]

Just now, Vort said:

 

Greatest. Episode. Ever. 

[Rob Osborn]

40 minutes ago, Fether said:

A friend of mine once suggested “I don’t think as many of us who believe we will be in the Celestial Kingdom will actually be there.” Not doctrinal, but just something to think about.

I think it kind of the opposite. I think I t will surprise us at just how many do make it to the celestial kingdom. That said I think it almost unfathomable the great and mighty change we still all have to go through to get there.

[JohnsonJones]

5 hours ago, Fether said:

@JohnsonJones thanks for the replies! The purpose of my listing off those commandments was to show that there was a multitude of commands andcounsels that we don’t follow, and it is not wise to alienate those that ignore the caffeine counsel but not acknowledge those that Ignore one of the other commandments/counsels

And I agree (though for some, ironically, even drinking coffee may not be as big a sin as we sometimes make it out to be, though for me, I'm not going to touch the stuff [unless the prophet comes out in General Conference and says we can] as it's a sin for me).

I am among those who are hypocritical in many instances and still have a great ways to go. 

However, I have my faith in the Lord and the Atonement.  I have faith that the Lord can and will save me as long as I repent.  I do not plan on being in Outer Darkness, but to glorify my Lord, repent, be cleansed, and enter into his presence.  It is my hope to be worthy.

I know they were joking, but I also hope to see all of you there and if you are not, that I might be able to give you a hand up instead of a pull down.

[BJ64]

18 hours ago, Fether said:

Don’t get me wrong, I absolutely love soda!

Im trying to quit drinking it right now cause I know there are immense health benefits. I think that is where the counsel comes in at. 

The phrase “Mormons don’t do ‘x’” is somewhat misleading. In the 60 minutes video president Hinckley was hit with “Mormons live by a law of health, you can’t...” and listed off all the things Latter-day Saints cant partake of, on which caffeinated drinks was mentioned. 

We as a society of saints we only list temple worthy related actions as things we “have” to do. But how many temple worthy members are there that don’t take care of their bodies, are kind to their neighbor, actively fulfill their ministering duties.

From what I see, the “commandments” are  required for activity in the church here in earth where has the “counsel” will undoubtedly be connected to our eventual salvation.

I am a fitness enthusiast and it is my opinion that being overweight and out of shape are contrary to the spirit of the word of wisdom if not the law itself. However you pretty much never hear anything spoken about this. Perhaps doing so would implicate too many people in church leadership. 

I remember hearing President Hinckley say “I don’t exercise, I get my exercise going to the funerals of men who do.”

I think that not caring for our bodies is showing disrespect for one of the greatest gifts God has given us in mortality.