The Sacrament

[mikbone]

     

[Jane_Doe]

Caveat here: some sins inflict deep wounds and have an involved healing process.  For those a person should also seek the help of their assigned spiritual doctor (aka their bishop).  

[CV75]

My take on this is that the sacrament renews the baptismal covenant, in which we covenant to keep all covenants; so yes, all are renewed. Our sins were remitted with baptism. But being human we sin again. So we need to properly repent to reclaim a remission of our sins, which will happen when we have His Spirit with us as a result of properly renewing our covenants with the sacrament.

[mikbone]

"The ordinance of the sacrament is a holy and repeated invitation to repent sincerely and to be renewed spiritually. The act of partaking of the sacrament, in and of itself, does not remit sins. But as we prepare conscientiously and participate in this holy ordinance with a broken heart and a contrite spirit, then the promise is that we may always have the Spirit of the Lord to be with us. And by the sanctifying power of the Holy Ghost as our constant companion, we can always retain a remission of our sins."

David A. Bednar  "Always Retain a Remission of Your Sins"  April 2016

 

The Sacrament, like all ordinances, is conditional. We ‘may’ have the Spirit if we partake of the emblems of the bread and water - remembering the body and blood of Jesus Christ with a broken heart and a contrite spirit. We must be willing to take upon us the name of Christ, with the determination and intent to keep the commandments.

 

Edited September 19, 2018 by mikbone

[Fether]

“According to our latter-day prophets and leaders, when you partake of the sacramentyou renew whatever covenants you have made with the Lord. For example, if you have been baptized only, that is the covenant you renew. If you have received the Melchizedek Priesthood, you also renew that part of the oath and covenant related to your having received that priesthood. If you have received your endowment, you also renew the covenants associated with it. Further, if you have been sealed, you also renew that covenant. In other words, when you partake of the sacrament, you renew all the covenants you have made with the Lord.“

- https://www.lds.org/ensign/1995/03/i-have-a-question/i-have-a-question?lang=eng

Edited September 19, 2018 by Fether

[mikbone]

1 hour ago, Fether said:

“According to our latter-day prophets and leaders, when you partake of the sacramentyou renew whatever covenants you have made with the Lord. For example, if you have been baptized only, that is the covenant you renew. If you have received the Melchizedek Priesthood, you also renew that part of the oath and covenant related to your having received that priesthood. If you have received your endowment, you also renew the covenants associated with it. Further, if you have been sealed, you also renew that covenant. In other words, when you partake of the sacrament, you renew all the covenants you have made with the Lord.“

- https://www.lds.org/ensign/1995/03/i-have-a-question/i-have-a-question?lang=eng

Thank you for the quote.

This is exactly why I posted this topic.  The individual who you quoted above with the absolute explanation of what the sacrament does, is not a GA.  He is quoting multiple prior GAs, but his interpretation is likely not what they intended...

Humans tend to have a sense of entitlement.  I'm not trying to make any accusations.  But many times we expect others to fix our problems.  I work as a bone doctor and I can't tell you all the times that I have been requested to prescribe a medication for someone to increase their bone density.  I never prescribe these medications, BTW.

The myriad of these medications make a huge amount of money for pharmaceutical companies (you probably see these medications advertised routinely on media commercials).  But at their best they only increase bone density 10% at the cost of side effects, and as soon as you go off the medications the benefits cease.  And the 10% increase of bone density is not the same quality of bone density that you would hope for.  We tried these medications on astronauts and after over a decade of testing we recognized that working out in space on treadmills with resistance is a much greater improvement then any medication.  Patients are way better off just starting a routine weight bearing activity, eating a healthy diet, and avoiding tobbaco, alcohol, etc.  But people would rather take a medication then change their routine.

The same thing happens for obesity.

I feel the same thing happens for ordinances.  The ordinance likely doesn't renew all covenants.  During the sacrament we should partake of the emblems and remember the body and blood of Christ and reflect upon our life, our shortcomings, weaknesses, and re-commit to baptismal covenants.  

I can assure you that God does not need to recommit to our covenants...

“I, the Lord, am bound when ye do what I say; but when ye to not what I say, ye have no promise”.  D&C 82:10

 

Edited September 19, 2018 by mikbone

[Fether]

2 hours ago, mikbone said:

This is exactly why I posted this topic.  The individual who you quoted above with the absolute explanation of what the sacrament does, is not a GA.  He is quoting multiple prior GAs, but his interpretation is likely not what they intended...

So you were fishing for this particular response?

I don’t obey General Authorities because they hold that particular title. I follow General Authorities because they speak on behalf of God and for his living church  upon the Earth. The Ensign is a monthly magazine given out by God’s church. Do you think anyone can make an article for the ensign and have it published without a doctrinal overlook? a general authority would only have to read the title and the first sentence of this article come across this statement and from their refute it prior to it being published of it were false. This is also found on LDS.org. If there was something doctrinally unsound with this article, why would they leave it up? Do the Leaders of our church just not read the Ensign? Do they not care what is on the official church website?

I don’t know why people go against specific statement that come from the church? If a later statement refutes this than great, but no such statement has been made so what reason do we have to believe other wise.

Edited September 19, 2018 by Fether

[mikbone]

8 minutes ago, Fether said:

So you were fishing for this particular response?

I don’t obey General Authorities because they hold that particular title. I follow General Authorities because they speak on behalf of God and for his living church  upon the Earth. The Ensign is a monthly magazine given out by God’s church. Do you think anyone can make an article for the ensign and have it published without a doctrinal overlook? a general authority would only have to read the title and the first sentence of this article come across this statement and from their refute it prior to it being published of it were false. This is also found on LDS.org. If there was something doctrinally unsound with this article, why would they leave it up? Do the Leaders of our church just not read the Ensign? Do they not care what is on the official church website?

I don’t know why people go against specific statement that come from the church? If a later statement refutes this than great, but no such statement has been made so what reason do we have to believe other wise.

My mother has an article in the Ensign... Yes articles get published without doctrinal overlook.

 

Quote

 

Elder Dallin H. Oaks has explained that in renewing our baptismal covenants by partaking of the emblems of the sacrament, “we do not witness that we take upon us the name of Jesus Christ. [Rather], we witness that we are willing to do so. (See D&C 20:77.) The fact that we only witness to our willingness suggests that something else must happen before we actually take that sacred name upon us in the [ultimate and] most important sense” (“Taking upon Us the Name of Jesus Christ,” Ensign, May 1985, 81). The baptismal covenant clearly contemplates a future event or events and looks forward to the temple.

In modern revelations the Lord refers to temples as houses “built unto my name” (D&C 105:33; see also D&C 109:2–5; 124:39). In the dedicatory prayer of the Kirtland Temple, the Prophet Joseph Smith petitioned the Father “that thy servants may go forth from this house armed with thy power, and that thy name may be upon them” (D&C 109:22). He also asked for a blessing “over thy people upon whom thy name shall be put in this house” (v. 26). And as the Lord appeared in and accepted the Kirtland Temple as His house, He declared, “For behold, I have accepted this house, and my name shall be here; and I will manifest myself to my people in mercy in this house” (D&C 110:7).

These scriptures help us understand that the process of taking upon ourselves the name of Jesus Christ that is commenced in the waters of baptism is continued and enlarged in the house of the Lord. As we stand in the waters of baptism, we look to the temple. As we partake of the sacrament, we look to the temple. We pledge to always remember the Savior and to keep His commandments as preparation to participate in the sacred ordinances of the temple and receive the highest blessings available through the name and by the authority of the Lord Jesus Christ. Thus, in the ordinances of the holy temple we more completely and fully take upon us the name of Jesus Christ.

 

David A Bednar, Honorably Hold a Name and Standing, April 2009

[Fether]

Just now, mikbone said:

My mother has an article in the Ensign... Yes articles get published without doctrinal overlook.

So if I wanted to make an ensign article talking about my battle with smoking and it ending with me choosing to use vape instead of smoking there wouldn’t be any problem with it getting published?

clearly this isn’t the case, there is some reviewing and doctrinal editing prior to publishing. The church isnt blindly publishing articles from random LDS sources.

That quote you are posting is an article specifically about renewing the baptismal Covenants at baptism. This is equivalent to me saying a plane can fly and you sending me an article about how the wheels on the plane work as it is taxing on the runway.

[Fether]

@mikbone

oh... and there is this

https://www.lds.org/media-library/video/2010-07-025-renewing-all-covenants-through-the-sacrament?lang=eng

[mikbone]

Sorry if I have offended Fether.  I'm not into controversy or contention.

And it is likely that one could recommit to all his or her temple covenants during the Sacrament.  

Personally, I have to go back to the temple to review and recommit to those covenants...

 

[Vort]

What does it mean "to renew a covenant"?

Under what circumstances do we "renew" our covenants?

Does such renewal require a covenant act?

Does partaking of the sacrament renew our baptismal covenant? If so, is there any reason to suppose that it does not also renew the other sacred covenants we have made?

[mikbone]

11 minutes ago, Vort said:

What does it mean "to renew a covenant"?

Under what circumstances do we "renew" our covenants?

Does such renewal require a covenant act?

Does partaking of the sacrament renew our baptismal covenant? If so, is there any reason to suppose that it does not also renew the other sacred covenants we have made?

My impressions?

Well, when we commit to baptism we covenant to keep the commandments

We don't keep the commandments...

I don't think the sacrament renews the covenants.  The sacrament gives us an excellent opportunity to renew our covenants.

Before the meridian of time.  Man was required to offer sacrifice in order to obtain similar results.  

I'm sure many believers offered burnt offerings without ever thinking about the promised messiah.  

 

[Fether]

1 hour ago, mikbone said:

Sorry if I have offended Fether.  I'm not into controversy or contention.

 

Triggered is a more accurate word to explain what happened 

This is my reasoning why.

I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

I am NOT a member of the Church of RussellMNelsonEyringOaksBallardHollandUchtdorfBednarCookChristoffersonAndersonRasbandStevensonRenlundGongSoaresof Latter-day Saints.

I hold the words, published with the official church logo, of a gospel doctrine teacher from Edmonton Canada to a higher importance than the words of Elder Christofferson published by Deseret Book. It’s the church I follow, and if the church makes a statement via the words of someone other than an ordained apostle, it is still the words of the church.

I don’t say this to discredit Apostles for speaking outside official churchgoers settings. I would still read that book of Christofferson and learn amazing things from it. My intention is to raise the value of ANY sword coming from an official church source (like the ensign).

1 hour ago, mikbone said:

And it is likely that one could recommit to all his or her temple covenants during the Sacrament.  

Personally, I have to go back to the temple to review and recommit to those covenants...

What you are talking about is synonymous of someone being baptized at 8 but not being spiritually born again till years later. The sacrament is the ordinance that renews ALL Covenants we have made, but we ourselves may not experience that “renewal” until we attend the temple, read scriptures, or whatever it is that pushes us to renew our Covenants. 

But the sacrament is the ordinance that we need to participate in to renew all our Covenants, from there it is up to us to react to that ordinance.

[mikbone]

3 minutes ago, Fether said:

I hold the words, published with the official church logo, of a gospel doctrine teacher from Edmonton Canada to a higher importance than the words of Elder Christofferson published by Deseret Book. It’s the church I follow, and if the church makes a statement via the words of someone other than an ordained apostle, it is still the words of the church.

This is a level of evidence list that I use to evaluate doctrine.

 

Level I: Scripture (the Standard Works), and Modern-Day Revelation as recorded in the Ensign from the most recent General Conference talks.

Level II: Official Proclamations, Statements, and Doctrinal Expositions from the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve, prior General Conference talks, and the Church Hymnal

Level III: Church Manuals written and published by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints

Level IV: Commentary by General Authorities not published by the Church, e.g. Mormon Doctrine

Level V: Commentary by non-general authority members in good standing

Level VI: Research and commentary by scholars / non-LDS members

Level VII: Online discussion groups like LDSBlogs.org - Mormon Archipelago: Gateway to the Bloggernacle

Level VIII: Research or commentary by apostate or disillusioned members

 

But to each his own.  We can pick and choose to believe what doctrine tickles our fancy.

I personally hold Joseph Smith Jr. in very high regard.  And although many of his words did not make it into our standard works, I give them particular weight.

Quote

The Prophet Joseph Smith taught: “You might as well baptize a bag of sand as a man, if not done in view of the remission of sins and getting of the Holy Ghost. Baptism by water is but half a baptism, and is good for nothing without the other half—that is, the baptism of the Holy Ghost” (History of the Church, 5:499). We were baptized by immersion in water for the remission of sins. We must also be baptized by and immersed in the Spirit of the Lord, “and then cometh a remission of your sins by fire and by the Holy Ghost (2 Ne. 31:17).

  -  David A Bednar "That We May Always Have His Spirit to Be with Us"  April 2006 conference address

[Traveler]

The sacrament must be taken by covenant and sealed by the power of the Holy Ghost to renew covenants and remit sins.  To partake is not enough.  I believe this is why many of the general authorities have recommended greater sacred attention during this ordinance.

 

The Traveler

[Pakesi]

Church leaders have also taught that when we take the sacrament, we renew not only our baptismal covenants but “all covenants entered into with the Lord.”⁴   

Straight from the church website.  Its all over the place, conference talks "By partaking of the sacrament we renew all covenants entered into with the lord L Tom Perry April 2006", church website and even the new edition of the church handbook states in section 28.0 that "while performing proxy ordinances, they are able to reflect on their own covenants and their commitment to keep those covenants" (nothing about renewing).  Partaking the sacrament renews ALL of our covenants that we have made the our Heavenly Father (Temple ones too).

MY 2 pennies: Covenant is a 2 way promise, he promises us things if we do our part.  We fall short and are imperfect.  It is my understanding that we cannot just say "okay I messed up, now I am going recommit myself to that covenant".   We need a way to repent and be forgiven and renew those covenants.  That is where the repentance process and the sacrament comes into play.  When we go to the temple and do proxy work, we are only doing the work for the dead, and not renewing our temple covenants.  Although it is good to learn and relearn and understand what those promises and blessing are that we have made.  But they are renewed at sacrament.

Edited November 21, 2022 by Pakesi
typos