anatess2 Posted July 25, 2019 Report Posted July 25, 2019 2 minutes ago, Mores said: I'd never read it nor seen the movie. But (just read the movie summary) that father made the same mistake that this father in PA (???) did. You've just got to work the law to your advantage. From what I gathered in the multiple news stories about the PA father, his was not a premeditated act but more of a heat-of-the-moment act. A Time To Kill was premeditated, planned, and carried out with full intent. The dad, in this case, was exonerated through a plea of insanity. The jury decided on the insanity even when there was not good evidence presented by the lawyer in the case for the plea, because of one simple question one of the jurors asked - "if it is our daughter, can we see ourselves doing the exact same thing?"... they all answered "Yes" so they moved to acquit. Quote
Guest MormonGator Posted July 25, 2019 Report Posted July 25, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Mores said: Intent is a hard thing to prove. Self-defense vs. assault? In some instances, even the one committing the violent act can have difficulty knowing what their intent was. Offensive or defensive? Who knows Remember that a lot of criminal defendants think they can beat the system. Like it or not, must judges and yes, even most juries, generally frown on people who take the law into their own hands. Even if you (generic) don't care about going to jail or think you (again, generic) can sweet talk or charm your way out of going to jail, shooting people carries it's own punishment. I'm fairly certain that police departments demand counseling and mental health care when an officer has to use deadly force. (am I right @mirkwood? Correct me if I'm wrong please.) And if they have to go through it, you will too. Even in the best case, it's not fun to resort to violence. Edited July 25, 2019 by MormonGator Quote
Guest Mores Posted July 25, 2019 Report Posted July 25, 2019 (edited) 19 minutes ago, MormonGator said: Remember that a lot of criminal defendants think they can beat the system. Like it or not, must judges and yes, even most juries, generally frown on people who take the law into their own hands. Even if you (generic) don't care about going to jail or think you (again, generic) can sweet talk or charm your way out of going to jail, shooting people carries it's own punishment. I'm fairly certain that police departments demand counseling and mental health care when an officer has to use deadly force. (am I right @mirkwood? Correct me if I'm wrong please.) And if they have to go through it, you will too. Even in the best case, it's not fun to resort to violence. And... what does that have to do with what I said? Edited July 25, 2019 by Mores Quote
mirkwood Posted July 25, 2019 Report Posted July 25, 2019 18 minutes ago, MormonGator said: when an officer has to use deadly force. (am I right @mirkwood? Correct me if I'm wrong please.) Yes. Quote And if they have to go through it, you will too. No. Quote Even in the best case, it's not fun to resort to violence. Yes. Midwest LDS 1 Quote
Guest MormonGator Posted July 25, 2019 Report Posted July 25, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, mirkwood said: No. I didn't mean they'd be forced to go to counseling. Meant "If cops, who are trained to use deadly force are required to go to counseling, it's a good idea for you to as well." I think a lot of the "I'm super tough I could kill anyone who messes with my family" attitude comes from a good place, but is deeply misguided. Everyone thinks they are tough until they get punched in the face. Edited July 25, 2019 by MormonGator Quote
Guest MormonGator Posted July 25, 2019 Report Posted July 25, 2019 (edited) @Mores- I know someone who had this happen to him. When he was about 16, a neighbor threatened "to kill" him (exact words) for driving fast in the neighborhood. The neighbor was a big, tough ex college football player and was quite intimidating. When the cops were called, because you know, that's like, a threat, this big, tough ex college football player apparently crumbled like a baby. The neighbor in this story is just like the dad in the news story. It's cool to intimidate people, it makes you feel tough and protective. But when you cross a line, your true colors out. Edited July 25, 2019 by MormonGator Quote
Guest Mores Posted July 25, 2019 Report Posted July 25, 2019 16 minutes ago, MormonGator said: @Mores- I know someone who had this happen to him. When he was about 16, a neighbor threatened "to kill" him (exact words) for driving fast in the neighborhood. The neighbor was a big, tough ex college football player and was quite intimidating. When the cops were called, because you know, that's like, a threat, this big, tough ex college football player apparently crumbled like a baby. The neighbor in this story is just like the dad in the news story. It's cool to intimidate people, it makes you feel tough and protective. But when you cross a line, your true colors out. You're talking like you know exactly what I'm suggesting. Based on your comments so far, I assure you, you don't. Quote
Guest MormonGator Posted July 25, 2019 Report Posted July 25, 2019 2 minutes ago, Mores said: Based on your comments so far, I assure you, you don't. Good. That makes me feel better. Quote
unixknight Posted July 25, 2019 Report Posted July 25, 2019 On 7/24/2019 at 1:18 PM, Just_A_Guy said: NBC says it wasn’t just weed; it was cocaine, too. Does that change anything? Heck no. Murder is murder. That said, I wouldn't want to be the deciding vote on a jury if it had been something like meth. I mean, cocaine is bad, but the horror of meth addiction cannot be overstated. Just_A_Guy and Midwest LDS 2 Quote
Just_A_Guy Posted July 25, 2019 Report Posted July 25, 2019 (edited) 6 hours ago, Mores said: Intent is a hard thing to prove. Self-defense vs. assault? In some instances, even the one committing the violent act can have difficulty knowing what their intent was. Offensive or defensive? Who knows? But if we’re taking about doing it in a 100% legal way, that would mean doing it without even getting hit for manslaughter. And IIRC the intent standard for manslaughter can include negligence and/or recklessness. Unless we have completely evolved into a culture of utter pantywaists, I think it’s reasonably foreseeable that a verbal altercation initiated by an outraged papa with the snot who’s corrupting his daughter, may well come to fisticuffs; and in that context, having a firearm on you from the get-go knowing you’re about to start a fight and knowing the fight may require you to use the firearm in “self-defense”, looks pretty darned reckless. Edited July 25, 2019 by Just_A_Guy Quote
Guest MormonGator Posted July 25, 2019 Report Posted July 25, 2019 (edited) I wonder how we'd feel if it was a son getting hooked on drugs rather than a daughter. You always hear a dad say "If any boy breaks your heart, I'll get him!" to a daughter. I've never, ever heard a man say to his son "If any girl breaks your heart, I'll get her" . I only hear "Toughen up boy, don't show emotion." Fascinating. Edited July 25, 2019 by MormonGator Quote
Just_A_Guy Posted July 25, 2019 Report Posted July 25, 2019 13 minutes ago, MormonGator said: I wonder how we'd feel if it was a son getting hooked on drugs rather than a daughter. You always hear a dad say "If any boy breaks your heart, I'll get him!" to a daughter. I've never, ever heard a man say to his son "If any girl breaks your heart, I'll get her" . I only hear "Toughen up boy, don't show emotion." Fascinating. Don’t you cry, boy, or I’ll give you something to CRY ABOUT!!! Quote
Junior Posted July 25, 2019 Report Posted July 25, 2019 I wish firearms could just be banned already Quote
Junior Posted July 25, 2019 Report Posted July 25, 2019 17 minutes ago, MormonGator said: I wonder how we'd feel if it was a son getting hooked on drugs rather than a daughter. You always hear a dad say "If any boy breaks your heart, I'll get him!" to a daughter. I've never, ever heard a man say to his son "If any girl breaks your heart, I'll get her" . I only hear "Toughen up boy, don't show emotion." Fascinating. Yeah but you would hear a mom say (or at least you would hear my mom say) "If she breaks your heart I will go after her" Quote
JGarcia Posted July 25, 2019 Report Posted July 25, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, unixknight said: I mean, cocaine is bad, but the horror of meth addiction cannot be overstated. Agreed praise be to God I overcame my drug addiction but the meth addicts when I was in rehab and the one's I knew from street were in the worse states. IMO cannabis shouldn't be legal in USA Edited July 25, 2019 by JGarcia scottyg 1 Quote
Guest MormonGator Posted July 26, 2019 Report Posted July 26, 2019 4 hours ago, Just_A_Guy said: Don’t you cry, boy, or I’ll give you something to CRY ABOUT!!! Both fascinating and a little sad. Quote
anatess2 Posted July 26, 2019 Report Posted July 26, 2019 (edited) 18 hours ago, MormonGator said: I wonder how we'd feel if it was a son getting hooked on drugs rather than a daughter. You always hear a dad say "If any boy breaks your heart, I'll get him!" to a daughter. I've never, ever heard a man say to his son "If any girl breaks your heart, I'll get her" . I only hear "Toughen up boy, don't show emotion." Fascinating. False Equivalence. This is 3rd Wave Feminist Garbage that refuses to acknowledge that the Male Species are the ones to step up to the defense of the Female Species simply by virtue of the difference in size of their muscles and the density of their bones. Therefore, when a girl hurts a boy, a boy is more than well equipped to beat up the girl himself so nobody else has to "get her". If he isn't, then he's a pantywaist of a boy and needs to step up to his potential to be able to defend his own loved ones from the physical power of other boys. Now, what boys DO hear is mothers protecting their boy cubs from the emotional abuse of girls through healing comfort. This is not something you can fix by just "sending out the cavalry". Edited July 26, 2019 by anatess2 Quote
Vort Posted July 26, 2019 Report Posted July 26, 2019 17 hours ago, Junior said: I wish firearms could just be banned already Plus free speech. I hate that. Causes all sorts of misery. We should just ban stupid free speech. anatess2, Just_A_Guy, SilentOne and 2 others 5 Quote
Junior Posted July 26, 2019 Report Posted July 26, 2019 5 hours ago, Vort said: Plus free speech. I hate that. Causes all sorts of misery. We should just ban stupid free speech. I believe in free speech, but I don't believe owning a firearm helps you defend your right to free speech. Quote
Vort Posted July 26, 2019 Report Posted July 26, 2019 43 minutes ago, Junior said: I don't believe owning a firearm helps you defend your right to free speech. I don't even know how to respond to such a statement. I suppose my response would be: We would not have the exercise of our First Amendment rights today without the historical exercise of our Second Amendment rights. SilentOne 1 Quote
Junior Posted July 26, 2019 Report Posted July 26, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Vort said: I don't even know how to respond to such a statement. I suppose my response would be: We would not have the exercise of our First Amendment rights today without the historical exercise of our Second Amendment rights. History is history. Lots of present day countries have freedom of speech without having the right to own a firearm Clearly you're pro gun and I'm anti gun Edited July 26, 2019 by Junior Quote
Vort Posted July 26, 2019 Report Posted July 26, 2019 2 minutes ago, Junior said: History is history. Lots of present day countries have freedom of speech without having the right to own a firearm So ten thousand years of history is undone by one generation of experience? 2 minutes ago, Junior said: Clearly you're pro gun and I'm anti gun You are mistaken. I am not "pro gun". I am "pro God-given rights". mirkwood and SilentOne 2 Quote
Junior Posted July 26, 2019 Report Posted July 26, 2019 1 minute ago, Vort said: So ten thousand years of history is undone by one generation of experience? 4 minutes ago, Junior said: How old is the USA ? 1 minute ago, Vort said: You are mistaken. I am not "pro gun". I am "pro God-given rights". You think it is a God given right to own a gun ? Quote
Junior Posted July 26, 2019 Report Posted July 26, 2019 @Vort here is your history of America and guns https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGYFRzf2Xww&frags=pl%2Cwn Quote
Vort Posted July 26, 2019 Report Posted July 26, 2019 4 minutes ago, Junior said: How old is the USA ? Two hundred and forty-three years, by my count. But history actually extends far back beyond the birth of the United States of America. 6 minutes ago, Junior said: You think it is a God given right to own a gun ? Of course. To be clear: I think it is a right to own a gun. The "God-given" part is redundant, added only for emphasis. Quote
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