Recommended Posts

51 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

I think members also have incredibly intense spiritual experiences,

There is no dispute that members do have wonderful & super strong spiritual experiences.  My point revolved around the:

1 hour ago, NeedleinA said:

higher frequency

Having a higher frequency of spiritual experiences, on a regular basis = the more the spirit is working on you and molding you. Ask a busy missionary. Even ask a seminary teacher who teaches the gospel 5 days a week. :)
Are there members who have high frequent spiritual experiences, even more than leaders? Sure. But I would suggest that is more the exception than the rule. A calling typically forces that upon you. A Relief Society President is going to have way more opportunity to visit with and counsel with members in temporal need than the average sister. That frequency typically can lead to greater compassion than someone not exposed to that on a routine basis. 

51 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

of the person... who has the personality and compassion of our Savior, but because he isn't in leadership feels he isn't good enough.

I would suggest, the person who has 'actually' reached that level, similar to the Savior isn't in like turn sulking because they don't have a leadership calling at the moment.
Individuals with compassion/personality like the Savior would be happy to serve in any position and not allow themselves to wallow over such matters.

51 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

Also, while having a calling and giving it everything might change you, it might not.

Giving it all that you have, spirit, might, mind, etc. can't result in it not changing you. If you are the same afterwards, then you failed in some area to give it your all.

51 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

After all, you are who you are. 

Come on Gator, you know better than this.

Edited by NeedleinA

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Grunt said:

Interesting.  I think many Saints aren't hard enough on themselves when it comes to following the Prophet or keeping their covenants.

I rather agree with this assessment, but I'm not sure what to make of it. I have a hard time believing that the Latter-day Saints today are somehow spiritually weaker overall than our immediate ancestors. I guess you could make a strong argument for the pioneers being more spiritually inclined to righteous behavior, because they were a self-selected group. But even there, I'm not in a position to judge. But I have seen many Saints, sometimes including members of my own family, who seem willing to dismiss bad actions, even serious evils, with a wave of the hand. I have been known in my lifetime to do some of this self-justification, so I'm not saying I am untouched by it. But come on! The prophet says X, and immediately a sizeable minority contingent of purported Latter-day Saints scream bloody murder? What sort of faith in the kingdom of God is that?

I think if people held themselves to a higher standard and freely admitted when they fell short, we would be far more prepared to meet Christ, either at his coming or at our going.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, Vort said:

I rather agree with this assessment, but I'm not sure what to make of it. I have a hard time believing that the Latter-day Saints today are somehow spiritually weaker overall than our immediate ancestors. I guess you could make a strong argument for the pioneers being more spiritually inclined to righteous behavior, because they were a self-selected group. But even there, I'm not in a position to judge. But I have seen many Saints, sometimes including members of my own family, who seem willing to dismiss bad actions, even serious evils, with a wave of the hand. I have been known in my lifetime to do some of this self-justification, so I'm not saying I am untouched by it. But come on! The prophet says X, and immediately a sizeable minority contingent of purported Latter-day Saints scream bloody murder? What sort of faith in the kingdom of God is that?

I think if people held themselves to a higher standard and freely admitted when they fell short, we would be far more prepared to meet Christ, either at his coming or at our going.

Any time I get a notification that @Vort quoted me I get nervous.    

Related, I've seen a handful of people today claiming that people need to complain more because that's what forced this policy change.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, NeedleinA said:

Leaders 'often' = higher frequency of strong spiritual experiences, more repetitive gospel accurate training & the most important...the mantle/being set apart to that position.
There is a distinct difference between Gator the member and Bishop Gator. Gator is great, but Bishop Gator can do more, work harder, forgive easier, etc.
Most people, who honor their callings and have been set apart will tell you that they receive a extra heavy dose of compassion and love for those they serve.

Even semi-coarsened folks like myself can be softened.

I agree with both you and @MormonGator because I think you are - at least in part - talking about two different things.   Gator had asked why regular members are often harsher than leaders.  So answering that question, I agree with this:

Quote

Most people, who honor their callings and have been set apart will tell you that they receive a extra heavy dose of compassion and love for those they serve.

I do think God gives (or tries to give) people in leadership callings an extra dose of love and compassion for those they serve.  Perhaps they turn that key through their service.   

On the other hand, I agree with Gator about this:

1 hour ago, Grunt said:

I think members also have incredibly intense spiritual experiences, and for all we know, sometimes they are more powerful ones than those in leadership.

I think Bishop Gator will be able to receive inspiration for his ward that Bro. Gator won't.  But if Bro. Gator is living faithfully, he may receive an abundance of personal revelation for himself, his family and those he serves.  In a case where a Bishop receives more inspiration than a regular member, it's because he has put in more time on his knees, pondering and looking to the scriptures and words of our leaders for answers.   The frequency of inspiration is not about the calling, but about how much effort we put in.  
 

1 hour ago, MormonGator said:

I'm troubled by the thought of the person sitting in the front row who has the personality and compassion of our Savior, but because he isn't in leadership feels he isn't good enough.

LOL, I love that you said this because my husband sits on the front row, and he is one of the most spiritual people I know.   He is also that one that taught me that the Lord does not necessarily choose the most spiritual person in the ward*  to be the Bishop, but likely someone who is humble, spiritual and has leadership skills.  Bro. Brown could be more spiritual, but lack the leadership skills needed.  

*no he wasn't talking about himself, LOL.  We were just talking about general principles.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Grunt said:

Interesting.  I think many Saints aren't hard enough on themselves when it comes to following the Prophet or keeping their covenants.

Yeah, I see it differently. I’ve seen LDS beat themselves up for the littlest thing. It breaks my heart because LDS are so incredible, so kind, so giving...yet they always think they aren’t good enough. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

Yeah, I see it differently. I’ve seen LDS beat themselves up for the littlest thing. It breaks my heart because LDS are so incredible, so kind, so giving...yet they always think they aren’t good enough. 

Good enough for what?  You're never "good enough".  That's the whole point.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Grunt said:

Good enough for what?  You're never "good enough".  That's the whole point.

Keep drilling away at that one. 

Ignore that people are trying their best, doing their best, and often times depressed/troubled about not being perfect. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

Keep drilling away at that one. 

Ignore that people are trying their best, doing their best, and often times depressed/troubled about not being perfect. 

No mortal is perfect.  That's why we strive to be better.  Most of us are trying their best.  It's called "growth" or "progression".    If someone thinks they're good enough then they aren't improving.  

Edited by Grunt

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, LiterateParakeet said:

I have seen this a lot actually.  Women, I think, are particularly susceptible.  

Agree. The last thing they (men and women) need is someone lecturing them about horrible they are. They know, that’s why depression is such a problem. 

 

Heartbreaking. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, NeedleinA said:

I wish more members, especially youth, would read the section above. Perhaps they might more readily talk with their parents or their Bishop without the fear of their world completely crashing down upon them. I have always sympathized with overly worried youth, especially those looking to set masturbation aside but not feeling like there is anyone to talk to. In my experience, parents and Bishops deserve more credit, than they usually get, for being understanding and sympathetic.

I imagine more would be more open about it if it was not regarded in seriousness next to MURDER. 

Pointing out you are almost as bad as these guys on death row probably is among the reasons anyone much less the youth are reluctant to confess to  masturbation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Gator presented an observation.

3 hours ago, MormonGator said:

I often wonder why the members of religions seem to be so much harsh, unforgiving and severe than the leaders are. 

I suppose we could ask, is that ^^^^ observation accurate? Are leaders less harsh, less severe and more forgiving than the members?
If so, as Gator wondered, why then are they this way?
I offered what I felt were plausible reasons in support of Gator's conclusion.

If the reasons I presented are found lacking, does anyone else have any alternative suggestions as to why the observation is true?
If no reasons can be produced, then 'perhaps' Gator's observation is inaccurate and there really are no differences between members & leaders.

I'm open to ideas @LiterateParakeet & @MormonGator😉

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, mrmarket said:

I imagine more would be more open about it if it was not regarded in seriousness next to MURDER. 

Pointing out you are almost as bad as these guys on death row probably is among the reasons anyone much less the youth are reluctant to confess to  masturbation.

Is it untrue that, as a class, sex sin is exceeded only by sins of wrongful killing?

I admit that I have never really understood what that means. But if it's true, shouldn't it be taught?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, mrmarket said:

I imagine more would be more open about it if it was not regarded in seriousness next to MURDER. 

Pointing out you are almost as bad as these guys on death row probably is among the reasons anyone much less the youth are reluctant to confess to  masturbation.

Well, now you clearly know the difference thanks to 32.6.4.1. Here is a 1 minute video that might shed some additional light on your concern. Enjoy

 

Edited by NeedleinA

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, NeedleinA said:

Gator presented an observation.

I suppose we could ask, is that ^^^^ observation accurate? Are leaders less harsh, less severe and more forgiving than the members?
If so, as Gator wondered, why then are they this way?
I offered what I felt were plausible reasons in support of Gator's conclusion.

If the reasons I presented are found lacking, does anyone else have any alternative suggestions as to why the observation is true?
If no reasons can be produced, then 'perhaps' Gator's observation is inaccurate and there really are no differences between members & leaders.

I'm open to ideas @LiterateParakeet & @MormonGator😉

I'm confused by this.  I already told you that I agreed with part of your post, so why would an alternative suggestion be needed?  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, NeedleinA said:

Well, now you clearly know the difference thanks to 32.6.4.1. Here is a 1 minute video that might shed some additional light on your concern. Enjoy

 

Im not concerned about it, just positing a theory. Thanks for the video though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, LiterateParakeet said:

I'm confused by this.  I already told you that I agreed with part of your post, so why would an alternative suggestion be needed?  

Perhaps I misunderstood then. What was the part of my post that you disagreed with then? Thanks LP. (long day here)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, Vort said:

Is it untrue that, as a class, sex sin is exceeded only by sins of wrongful killing?

I admit that I have never really understood what that means. But if it's true, shouldn't it be taught?

It is allegedly true and yes it is taught to be next to murder. At least in the past it was. I have not sat in a young mens quorum in over 20 years so I have no idea what is taught now. Since doctrine never ever changes I imagine it is still taught. Im pretty sure it really isnt that bad as  I can imagine many things worse, but that would be just an opinion and we know what value opinions hold.

Edited by mrmarket

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, NeedleinA said:

Perhaps I misunderstood then. What was the part of my post that you disagreed with then? Thanks LP. (long day here)

I agreed with you that leaders do seem to be given a gift of love for the people they serve.  Perhaps, in part due to their time spent serving.  Once when I was complaining to a friend about a comment from the pulpit that the "Stake President sends his love".  My friend was in the Relief Society Presidency, and she said that since her calling she really does feel a love for all the sisters.  

The part I disagreed with you about was that a Bishop or Relief Society President necessarily receives more inspiration than the average member.  Sure the Bishop will receive more revelation about the ward, but an average member who is faithfully seeking can receive just as much or maybe more inspiration about their stewardship.  And I mean brothers and sisters. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now