Vort

Creeping mediocrity masquerading as virtue

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As a matter of information, when I was on my mission, it was told to us in the SLC mission center that 60% of us would go inactive. This was in 1967. I was shocked. 
 

But then one realizes that this is the overall church activity rate at that time. So not surprising in retrospect. 

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On 5/5/2020 at 4:37 PM, Gomezaddams51 said:

Hi again...  Perhaps the reason so many drop out is that they are forced to go on missions and have no choice in the matter.  I was forced to go by my mother who I think just wanted to play the part of the martyred mother who could brag that her son was a missionary.  I hated it, and I met quite a few missionaries that also hated it.  One of my companions confessed that he and his girlfriend had been "going at it like rabbits" hoping she would get pregnant so he would not be able to go.  His mother, like mine ordered him to go and to lie about the sex he had had.  

If I had not been forced to go, I might have at least stayed on the fringes of the church instead of completely running away from it.  It seems like from birth, boys are brainwashed into thinking they have to go on a mission or be a failure.  The herd mentality of the church puts a lot of pressure on a young boy. 

I think its all about culture now, not faith.

On 5/5/2020 at 4:42 PM, MormonGator said:

I've seen that a lot. 

When I first joined the church someone asked me where I went on a mission-I told her that I didn't go on one. She looked disappointed in me, like there was something wrong. My wife said "We're converts." and the lady seemed relieved. A good friend of mine (lifelong member) explained it to me. He said the same thing you did-that for years it was just expected you would go on one, and if you didn't go on one or complete it, you family was ashamed. 

 

Currently having a hard time with that. No young woman wants to relate to me simply because i didn't went on a mission. I really dont know if i'll make it to marry someone in the church.

Edited by Serviteur du seigneur

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1 minute ago, Serviteur du seigneur said:

Currently having a hard time with that. No young woman wants to relate to me simply because i didn't went on a mission. I really dont know if i'll make it to marry someone in the church.

Sorry bud.  Remember that sometimes she's the problem, not you. 

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20 hours ago, mrmarklin said:

As a matter of information, when I was on my mission, it was told to us in the SLC mission center that 60% of us would go inactive. This was in 1967. I was shocked. 
 

But then one realizes that this is the overall church activity rate at that time. So not surprising in retrospect. 

Ya know, 78% of all statistics are made up, right? ;) 

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38 minutes ago, Serviteur du seigneur said:

I think its all about culture now, not faith.

No. Culture certainly plays a part, but this is not primarily a matter of culture. It's a matter of finding a proxy to measure the fitness of a mate. You cannot look into a person's soul and determine who and what he is, just as you cannot look into a person's future and see how much money or how many children or what other attainments he might gain. Those things are invisible to the eye. So instead, you have to go with things that ARE visible to the eye. That is, you must use proxies.

What proxy should a woman use? Good looks? If a man is handsome, perhaps he has a healthy genetic makeup and will sire strong children. This is the traditional evolutionary explanation for being attracted to beauty and symmetry.

How about societal position? A social climber, like the president of a society or the mayor of a city, is powerful and in a good position to defend his wife. Women have often used power and position as a proxy to determine a fit mate.

Money is another common proxy. A great many women think that if a man has money, that means the woman will probably have a comfortable and secure life. Hey, who wouldn't want that? Hard to blame a young woman for hoping to fall in love with a man of good fortune.

Latter-day Saint women are susceptible to all of these proxies, though perhaps not quite so much as many other young women. But LDS women look for another measure: Commitment to the kingdom of God. Of all the proxies yet mentioned, this one seems the least objectionable. But, of course, such commitment is invisible and requires its own proxy to try to ascertain. What proxy shall we use for commitment to Christ's kingdom? Position of service in the Church is not a reliable proxy at all, and in any case young men of marrying age seldom have any great or high calling. The young woman could, I don't know, ask for ten years of tithing receipts or inquire about his virginity status, both of which would be awkward and intrusive. What's a girl to do?

Ask about missions, that's what. Though missionary service is not any kind of perfectly reliable proxy, it's better than nothing. At the least, it shows that the young man tried to fulfill his duty to God. It doesn't tell whether he did it out of a sense of obligation, a love for his fellow man, or a promise his parents made him to buy him a car when he got home, but it's something. Statistically speaking, i expect that male return missionaries have a higher rate of commitment to the Church and the gospel than male members who never served a mission.

And if you don't think women can be very rational and even seemingly cold-blooded in such calculations, you do not understand the fair sex.

So the moral of this story is, until women learn ESP, they're going to rely on proxies to measure otherwise invisible qualities in a man. Missionary service is likely to remain one of those proxies, though not the only one.

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42 minutes ago, Vort said:

No. Culture certainly plays a part, but this is not primarily a matter of culture. It's a matter of finding a proxy to measure the fitness of a mate. You cannot look into a person's soul and determine who and what he is, just as you cannot look into a person's future and see how much money or how many children or what other attainments he might gain. Those things are invisible to the eye. So instead, you have to go with things that ARE visible to the eye. That is, you must use proxies.

What proxy should a woman use? Good looks? If a man is handsome, perhaps he has a healthy genetic makeup and will sire strong children. This is the traditional evolutionary explanation for being attracted to beauty and symmetry.

How about societal position? A social climber, like the president of a society or the mayor of a city, is powerful and in a good position to defend his wife. Women have often used power and position as a proxy to determine a fit mate.

Money is another common proxy. A great many women think that if a man has money, that means the woman will probably have a comfortable and secure life. Hey, who wouldn't want that? Hard to blame a young woman for hoping to fall in love with a man of good fortune.

Latter-day Saint women are susceptible to all of these proxies, though perhaps not quite so much as many other young women. But LDS women look for another measure: Commitment to the kingdom of God. Of all the proxies yet mentioned, this one seems the least objectionable. But, of course, such commitment is invisible and requires its own proxy to try to ascertain. What proxy shall we use for commitment to Christ's kingdom? Position of service in the Church is not a reliable proxy at all, and in any case young men of marrying age seldom have any great or high calling. The young woman could, I don't know, ask for ten years of tithing receipts or inquire about his virginity status, both of which would be awkward and intrusive. What's a girl to do?

Ask about missions, that's what. Though missionary service is not any kind of perfectly reliable proxy, it's better than nothing. At the least, it shows that the young man tried to fulfill his duty to God. It doesn't tell whether he did it out of a sense of obligation, a love for his fellow man, or a promise his parents made him to buy him a car when he got home, but it's something. Statistically speaking, i expect that male return missionaries have a higher rate of commitment to the Church and the gospel than male members who never served a mission.

And if you don't think women can be very rational and even seemingly cold-blooded in such calculations, you do not understand the fair sex.

So the moral of this story is, until women learn ESP, they're going to rely on proxies to measure otherwise invisible qualities in a man. Missionary service is likely to remain one of those proxies, though not the only one.

Might be a good measure, but a person is much more than where he or she served a mission. The lady could ask about my conversion story, she could ask about my callings. You just gotta really get to know someone before you turn him down because he lacks a mission in his resume.

Edited by Serviteur du seigneur

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4 minutes ago, Serviteur du seigneur said:

Might be a good measure, but a person is much more than where he or she served a mission. The lady could ask about my conversion story, she could ask about my callings. You just gotta really get to know someone before you turn him down because he lacks a mission in his resume.

As I suggested in the other thread, why don't you volunteer it instead of expecting her to pry it out of you?

Sometimes, it's not her.  It's you.

Edited by Carborendum

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2 minutes ago, Serviteur du seigneur said:

Might be a good measure, but a person is much more than where he or she served a mission. The lady could ask about my conversion story, she could ask about my callings. You just gotta really get to know someone before you turn him down because he lacks a mission in his resume.

Perhaps. But the point is, it's more than just culture. There is some real substance behind the action, however unfair it might seem.

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38 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

As I suggested in the other thread, why don't you volunteer it instead of expecting her to pry it out of you?

Sometimes, it's not her.  It's you.

Dude, the conversation stops at that. The second i mention i didn't serve, girls usually just want to get away, they would ran if it wasn't considered too weird. For them its like hanging around with a dangerous sinful man, because not serving turns you automatically into that type.

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17 minutes ago, Serviteur du seigneur said:

Dude, the conversation stops at that. The second i mention i didn't serve, girls usually just want to get away, they would ran if it wasn't considered too weird. For them its like hanging around with a dangerous sinful man, because not serving turns you automatically into that type.

What do you mean "at that"?  Here's what I'm hearing:

Quote

Girl: So, where did you serve your mission?

SDS: Actually, I didn't serve a mission.

Girl: UGH!  Bye-bye.

Is that it?

Here's a suggestion:

Quote

Girl: So, where did you serve your mission?

SDS: Actually, I'm a convert.  And I absolutely loved my missionaries.  I really wish I could have served one myself.  But I was too old.  I really hope to teach my children to go on the mission I never could.

Girl: Oh, really?  Tell me about your conversion.

Better?

I need to explain something.  When I said "sometimes it's not her, it's you" I was not putting you down.  I was somewhat tongue-in-cheek, but somewhat serious as well.  But I was not being malicious.

When I was younger, I was COMPLETELY bad with women.  I absolutely did not know how to talk with them.  Mind you, I was a pretty good catch. 

  • I was from a good family. 
  • I was pretty smart. 
  • I had tremendous earning potential. 
  • I was a returned missionary. 
  • I was active and fulfilled my calling. 
  • I was raised to be a gentleman and treated women with respect.

So, it was not just the stuff on my resume.  It was the way I WAS.  Women just didn't really want to be around me.  At some point, ONE girl flat out told me it was because I was Korean.  I did not see her again.  But I didn't use that as an excuse to say that ALL girls rejected me for that.

I just had to learn how to "sell myself."  The difference between those two conversations I just put in the quote boxes above shows a MOUNTAIN of difference in how you answer a simple question.  Do you kind of see that even if you have a wonderful "husband resume" that no one cares until you're able to sell it?

In a real resume, you can have all the requirements for a position and then some.  But if you don't' format it the right way, it will never get past the screener in the HR department.  I applied to the same job three times over the course of several years.  It was one of those companies that everyone wanted to work for.

  • The first time, I was outright rejected.  Good qualifications.  Bad resume.
  • The second time, I was called in for an interview.  Good qualifications.  Decent resume.  Bad interview.
  • The third time, I was hired.  Godd quals. Good resume.  Good interview.

If you keep blaming others for what you're not doing on your end, you'll never find success.  Do everything on your end.  And pray for a wife who you can take to the temple.  I assure you that the Lord will answer your prayers.

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2 hours ago, Carborendum said:

What do you mean "at that"?  Here's what I'm hearing:

Is that it?

Here's a suggestion:

Better?

I need to explain something.  When I said "sometimes it's not her, it's you" I was not putting you down.  I was somewhat tongue-in-cheek, but somewhat serious as well.  But I was not being malicious.

When I was younger, I was COMPLETELY bad with women.  I absolutely did not know how to talk with them.  Mind you, I was a pretty good catch. 

  • I was from a good family. 
  • I was pretty smart. 
  • I had tremendous earning potential. 
  • I was a returned missionary. 
  • I was active and fulfilled my calling. 
  • I was raised to be a gentleman and treated women with respect.

So, it was not just the stuff on my resume.  It was the way I WAS.  Women just didn't really want to be around me.  At some point, ONE girl flat out told me it was because I was Korean.  I did not see her again.  But I didn't use that as an excuse to say that ALL girls rejected me for that.

I just had to learn how to "sell myself."  The difference between those two conversations I just put in the quote boxes above shows a MOUNTAIN of difference in how you answer a simple question.  Do you kind of see that even if you have a wonderful "husband resume" that no one cares until you're able to sell it?

In a real resume, you can have all the requirements for a position and then some.  But if you don't' format it the right way, it will never get past the screener in the HR department.  I applied to the same job three times over the course of several years.  It was one of those companies that everyone wanted to work for.

  • The first time, I was outright rejected.  Good qualifications.  Bad resume.
  • The second time, I was called in for an interview.  Good qualifications.  Decent resume.  Bad interview.
  • The third time, I was hired.  Godd quals. Good resume.  Good interview.

If you keep blaming others for what you're not doing on your end, you'll never find success.  Do everything on your end.  And pray for a wife who you can take to the temple.  I assure you that the Lord will answer your prayers.

Girl : where did you serve ?

Me : I'm a convert. I joined the church when i was 16 but my parents didn't allow me to go on one when the time came. Now i'm too old for that and i'm more into marriage.

Girl: Cool ! Well Serviteur, i think it's getting late and i need to go...

 

And thats that. My conversation with almost every girl around my age ends up like this. I don't know why you're having trouble believing that, its so common to me, to this day i have to go through the embarassment and the weird looks when the teacher asks me where did i serve my mission during a crowded sunday school lesson and i have to tell everyone the story again. It's really tiring to have to go through those shames over and over, but i have had experiences and all the answers i have received indicates that this is the most correct place to be.

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5 hours ago, Serviteur du seigneur said:

Girl : where did you serve ?

Me : I'm a convert. I joined the church when i was 16 but my parents didn't allow me to go on one when the time came. Now i'm too old for that and i'm more into marriage.

Girl: Cool ! Well Serviteur, i think it's getting late and i need to go...

 

And thats that. My conversation with almost every girl around my age ends up like this. I don't know why you're having trouble believing that, its so common to me, to this day i have to go through the embarassment and the weird looks when the teacher asks me where did i serve my mission during a crowded sunday school lesson and i have to tell everyone the story again. It's really tiring to have to go through those shames over and over, but i have had experiences and all the answers i have received indicates that this is the most correct place to be.

I think it may be more the type of girl you are after rather than the fact that you haven't served a mission.  Have you ever thought to look at converts and those who are older?  I've known many women that will date an individual that has not served a mission.  I know for a fact that there are those in South America that will marry individuals who did not serve a mission, going so far as to meet members online and travel to the US to get married in the temple!

If you are in your mid-twenties, are you asking girls who are also in their mid-twenties?  Are you asking other converts to the church?  Most of them will not have been raised that they need to marry a returned missionary. 

In other nations I've gone to, the expectations of marrying a returned missionary tend to be lower than when I've visited in Utah or other areas of where there is a large number of members. 

On the otherhand, in some parts of Utah, in the singles scene, from what I understand it currently, there are three active women for every active man.  Further more, the older one gets, the greater the ratio of difference.  This means that by the time one is near thirty, the ration of women to men is even greater (BYU on the otherhand is more to a 50/50 ratio in undergraduate degrees, from what I hear).  At some point, if they want to marry someone who is temple worthy, they probably are looking for a worthy individual more than specifics such as if they served a mission or not. 

I understand the same dynamic is happening in most nations around the world as well.  It could be just as much as the type of person you are dating as it is whether you went on a mission or not. 

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8 hours ago, Serviteur du seigneur said:

Girl : where did you serve ?

Me : I'm a convert. I joined the church when i was 16 but my parents didn't allow me to go on one when the time came. Now i'm too old for that and i'm more into marriage.

Girl: Cool ! Well Serviteur, i think it's getting late and i need to go...

You really bring up the "M" word in your first conversation with a girl?  Smooth move.  Stop that. 

*******************************

Do you see the problem with how you're doing it vs. the way I said to do it?  You're BLAMING someone else for your inabilities.

What I said to do was to tout the inspiring story -- your conversion story.  But instead, you're simply talking about the sad stuff and how you're a victim.  No wonder women don't want to be around you.  You're making yourself out to be a victim of your own weakness -- that's the impression that such a statement would give.

Be strong.  Be inspiring.  Be happy.  Be visionary.  Look to the adventures in the future.  That's what women want in a man.  Not someone who blames others for their woes.  They want someone to come up through the difficulties and triumph over them.  You've done that.  Why not hint at those rather than blaming others.

It's important to be able to sell without being a high pressured salesman.  Be confident but not prideful. But NEVER make yourself out to be a victim.

Quote

I don't know why you're having trouble believing that.

I'm having trouble believing it because I've been in the Church a LOT longer than you have and been to a LOT more places than you have, and I've NEVER heard this attitude was a result of people thinking a convert should have gone on a mission or else he is simply not worth it.  NEVER.  Instead I see a WHOLE lot of people eager to hear the conversion story.  But before she can even ask about it, you've gone and blamed people for a sob story and shocked her with the "M" word. SMH.

All the conversations that talk about young men going on missions have ALWAYS stated that

  • Girls are exempt.
  • Converts are exempt.

Sometimes there is a footnote on the convert where it depends on circumstance.  But there is ALWAYS some allowance for converts.  That is why I'm having a problem believing everything is as you believe.

Edited by Carborendum

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7 hours ago, JohnsonJones said:

I think it may be more the type of girl you are after rather than the fact that you haven't served a mission.  Have you ever thought to look at converts and those who are older?  I've known many women that will date an individual that has not served a mission.  I know for a fact that there are those in South America that will marry individuals who did not serve a mission, going so far as to meet members online and travel to the US to get married in the temple!

If you are in your mid-twenties, are you asking girls who are also in their mid-twenties?  Are you asking other converts to the church?  Most of them will not have been raised that they need to marry a returned missionary. 

In other nations I've gone to, the expectations of marrying a returned missionary tend to be lower than when I've visited in Utah or other areas of where there is a large number of members. 

On the otherhand, in some parts of Utah, in the singles scene, from what I understand it currently, there are three active women for every active man.  Further more, the older one gets, the greater the ratio of difference.  This means that by the time one is near thirty, the ration of women to men is even greater (BYU on the otherhand is more to a 50/50 ratio in undergraduate degrees, from what I hear).  At some point, if they want to marry someone who is temple worthy, they probably are looking for a worthy individual more than specifics such as if they served a mission or not. 

I understand the same dynamic is happening in most nations around the world as well.  It could be just as much as the type of person you are dating as it is whether you went on a mission or not. 

I have Brazilian citizenship and can assure you that most girls there might be even more requiring of details such as if someone served a mission or not, than those in utah. In fact, there are almost no converts nowadays in that country. 

So most of the girls i met there were also born in the church. Look, I dont know if you have been knowing but, the church is not really growing overall ( i can guess reasons for that!!! ), it's been a long time since i saw any converts of my age, most are much older.

Some of the reasons for that is though we know the church is true, we are excluded from the dating scene because we are inferior to those born in the covenant, and i'm really starting to think they believe they are more worthy spirits because they were born in the church, i will look it up sometime. Another  possible reason though, is that most people of my age are not interested in religion. But i really think it's because we are having a hard time getting in the lds man made culture, they don't let us converts marry their holiest covenant born daughters. Idk, it's hard.

5 hours ago, Carborendum said:

You really bring up the "M" word in your first conversation with a girl?  Smooth move.  Stop that. 

*******************************

Do you see the problem with how you're doing it vs. the way I said to do it?  You're BLAMING someone else for your inabilities.

What I said to do was to tout the inspiring story -- your conversion story.  But instead, you're simply talking about the sad stuff and how you're a victim.  No wonder women don't want to be around you.  You're making yourself out to be a victim of your own weakness -- that's the impression that such a statement would give.

Be strong.  Be inspiring.  Be happy.  Be visionary.  Look to the adventures in the future.  That's what women want in a man.  Not someone who blames others for their woes.  They want someone to come up through the difficulties and triumph over them.  You've done that.  Why not hint at those rather than blaming others.

It's important to be able to sell without being a high pressured salesman.  Be confident but not prideful. But NEVER make yourself out to be a victim.

I'm having trouble believing it because I've been in the Church a LOT longer than you have and been to a LOT more places than you have, and I've NEVER heard this attitude was a result of people thinking a convert should have gone on a mission or else he is simply not worth it.  NEVER.  Instead I see a WHOLE lot of people eager to hear the conversion story.  But before she can even ask about it, you've gone and blamed people for a sob story and shocked her with the "M" word. SMH.

All the conversations that talk about young men going on missions have ALWAYS stated that

  • Girls are exempt.
  • Converts are exempt.

Sometimes there is a footnote on the convert where it depends on circumstance.  But there is ALWAYS some allowance for converts.  That is why I'm having a problem believing everything is as you believe.

Look, i'll try to practice and make my social skills even better, but you might have been getting the wrong idea about me. I'm a fine gentleman and am considered good husband material until i say i didn't went on a mission. I could go on searching and trying to date converts around my age, but things have changed pal, i'm a young lds convert, go out in the streets, people of my age don't believe in God anymore.

From time to time, i still meet faithfull converts, but they are already married and usually in their 40's.

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7 minutes ago, Serviteur du seigneur said:

Some of the reasons for that is though we know the church is true, we are excluded from the dating scene because we are inferior to those born in the covenant

I admit I am BIC, but I never saw anything approaching this attitude, ever, in any setting, among any of the young women I ever dated or associated with. I'm thinking this is just you, SDS.

 

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18 minutes ago, Serviteur du seigneur said:

I have Brazilian citizenship and can assure you that most girls there might be even more requiring of details such as if someone served a mission or not, than those in utah. In fact, there are almost no converts nowadays in that country. 

So most of the girls i met there were also born in the church. Look, I dont know if you have been knowing but, the church is not really growing overall ( i can guess reasons for that!!! ), it's been a long time since i saw any converts of my age, most are much older.

Some of the reasons for that is though we know the church is true, we are excluded from the dating scene because we are inferior to those born in the covenant, and i'm really starting to think they believe they are more worthy spirits because they were born in the church, i will look it up sometime. Another  possible reason though, is that most people of my age are not interested in religion. But i really think it's because we are having a hard time getting in the lds man made culture, they don't let us converts marry their holiest covenant born daughters. Idk, it's hard.

Look, i'll try to practice and make my social skills even better, but you might have been getting the wrong idea about me. I'm a fine gentleman and am considered good husband material until i say i didn't went on a mission. I could go on searching and trying to date converts around my age, but things have changed pal, i'm a young lds convert, go out in the streets, people of my age don't believe in God anymore.

From time to time, i still meet faithfull converts, but they are already married and usually in their 40's.

I admit, my time as a youth was many years ago.

I do deal with young adults commonly today.   Most of the dating from the LDS come from Institute...not necessarily their ward, though at times the Student Ward and Institute overlap quite a bit. 

Young Adult dances are also places many of them meet along with other various Young Adult activities.  Many of them outside of Utah are Stake or Regional activities and dances (though not so much in the past few weeks I imagine).

If you've prayed and felt you should go to BYU, I'd say go to BYU.  If you've prayed and not received that answer, I'm not so sure of your ideas.  I think you have a stereotype of BYU in your mind that is not necessarily absolutely correct of reality at BYU.  It is true, many get married, but NOT as many as some think there are.  There are also plenty there who are focused just as much on their studies as they would at any other University.  UVU down the road is much more of a marriage arena than BYU, as probably even Provo College. 

However, if the spirit is directing you or prompting you in the direction of BYU, perhaps there is a reason for it.

Whatever your choice is, good luck.

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46 minutes ago, Vort said:

I admit I am BIC, but I never saw anything approaching this attitude, ever, in any setting, among any of the young women I ever dated or associated with. I'm thinking this is just you, SDS.

 

Its possible. I'll take a better watch on myself

31 minutes ago, JohnsonJones said:

I admit, my time as a youth was many years ago.

I do deal with young adults commonly today.   Most of the dating from the LDS come from Institute...not necessarily their ward, though at times the Student Ward and Institute overlap quite a bit. 

Young Adult dances are also places many of them meet along with other various Young Adult activities.  Many of them outside of Utah are Stake or Regional activities and dances (though not so much in the past few weeks I imagine).

If you've prayed and felt you should go to BYU, I'd say go to BYU.  If you've prayed and not received that answer, I'm not so sure of your ideas.  I think you have a stereotype of BYU in your mind that is not necessarily absolutely correct of reality at BYU.  It is true, many get married, but NOT as many as some think there are.  There are also plenty there who are focused just as much on their studies as they would at any other University.  UVU down the road is much more of a marriage arena than BYU, as probably even Provo College. 

However, if the spirit is directing you or prompting you in the direction of BYU, perhaps there is a reason for it.

Whatever your choice is, good luck.

When i pray about it, sometimes there's  a feeling like i need to go there, you know ? I could just go to a better institution and forget about marriage 

And stuff. But i dont really know if its coming from the lord or it's just my own feelings. I have 6 years as a member, so i'm still learning.

And thank you for your counsels sir, you seem to be a very good man.

 

Edited by Serviteur du seigneur

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3 minutes ago, Serviteur du seigneur said:

I have 6 years as a member, so i'm still learning.

Get used to it. I have almost 50 years as a baptized member, and I often feel like I'm only just beginning to learn.

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1 hour ago, Serviteur du seigneur said:

Look, i'll try to practice and make my social skills even better, but you might have been getting the wrong idea about me.

What wrong impression did I get about you?  Let me know and I'll change my advice. 

Remember, I'm trying to help you because you seemed to be asking for help with a problem.  I'm not trying to put you down.  I'm sure you've got a lot going for you.  But it seems you don't know how to display it or sell it.  That's really all I've said.  And you keep saying things that confirm that suspicion.

1 hour ago, Serviteur du seigneur said:

I'm a fine gentleman and am considered good husband material

Yes, I got that.  And I'm not doubting it.  I even said that I assumed you were good husband material.  But because I'm giving advice on some of you deficiencies on the social skills, you think I'm putting you down?  No.  You seem to have had the same difficulties I did.  I worked on it and got better.

You can either work on that (as you have now stated that you will) or you can hide behind your sob story (that is in no way appealing to females).

1 hour ago, Serviteur du seigneur said:

until i say i didn't went on a mission.

I'm not sure if it is because you're using translator software or if there is a language problem here.  But are you talking about Brazilian women?  I'll admit that in all my travels, I've never been to Brazil.  So, maybe... maybe... maybe the women in Brazil for some reason have some funny ideas that I've never heard before.  So, where are you looking?

1 hour ago, Serviteur du seigneur said:

I could go on searching and trying to date converts around my age,

No one said you need to limit yourself to converts.  I don't know why you brought this up.  But at the same time, don't exclude them or else you'd become a hypocrite.

1 hour ago, Serviteur du seigneur said:

but things have changed pal, i'm a young lds convert, go out in the streets, people of my age don't believe in God anymore.

Yes, I'm aware.  But there are plenty that do believe in God.  And there are plenty of faithful LDS girls out there looking for a husband.  Again, look at the excuses, and you'll fail.  Look for the opportunities and you'll succeed.

1 hour ago, Serviteur du seigneur said:

From time to time, i still meet faithfull converts, but they are already married and usually in their 40's.

My best friend from college got married when he was in his late 30s to a girl only a couple years younger than he.  And they're happy.

Again, you're giving the story of the victim.  What are you doing to make sure you're not a victim?  What are you doing to present that strong, vibrant, capable, exciting, visionary gentleman that you seem to be?  How do others see that?  What do you do to make sure that light shines?

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26 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

What wrong impression did I get about you?  Let me know and I'll change my advice. 

Remember, I'm trying to help you because you seemed to be asking for help with a problem.  I'm not trying to put you down.  I'm sure you've got a lot going for you.  But it seems you don't know how to display it or sell it.  That's really all I've said.  And you keep saying things that confirm that suspicion.

Yes, I got that.  And I'm not doubting it.  I even said that I assumed you were good husband material.  But because I'm giving advice on some of you deficiencies on the social skills, you think I'm putting you down?  No.  You seem to have had the same difficulties I did.  I worked on it and got better.

You can either work on that (as you have now stated that you will) or you can hide behind your sob story (that is in no way appealing to females).

I'm not sure if it is because you're using translator software or if there is a language problem here.  But are you talking about Brazilian women?  I'll admit that in all my travels, I've never been to Brazil.  So, maybe... maybe... maybe the women in Brazil for some reason have some funny ideas that I've never heard before.  So, where are you looking?

No one said you need to limit yourself to converts.  I don't know why you brought this up.  But at the same time, don't exclude them or else you'd become a hypocrite.

Yes, I'm aware.  But there are plenty that do believe in God.  And there are plenty of faithful LDS girls out there looking for a husband.  Again, look at the excuses, and you'll fail.  Look for the opportunities and you'll succeed.

My best friend from college got married when he was in his late 30s to a girl only a couple years younger than he.  And they're happy.

Again, you're giving the story of the victim.  What are you doing to make sure you're not a victim?  What are you doing to present that strong, vibrant, capable, exciting, visionary gentleman that you seem to be?  How do others see that?  What do you do to make sure that light shines?

I will surely remember your tips in my next date.

I don't like to tell personal stuff on the internet more than is needed. But here's some of my background, i have a bachelor's in CS and in accounting, i worked on both at the same time, while working on it i have been learning languages, and today i speak 4 fluently. I am specialized in accounting automatization and due to my skills i have acquired canadian permanent residency because they have a points based immigration system. No, im not using translator software and i have international dating experience in the US, CA and BR.

The church feels the same wherever it is.

Edited by Serviteur du seigneur

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A woman's perspective:

 
 
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10
18 hours ago, Serviteur du seigneur said:

Girl: Where did you serve?

Me: I'm a convert. I joined the church when I was 16 but my parents didn't allow me to go on one when the time came. Now I'm too old for that and I'm more into marriage.

Girl: Cool! Well, Serviteur, I think it's getting late and I need to go...

The lack of a mission isn't the big red flag here. It's that you didn't go because your parents didn't allow you to. How old is old enough to do things without your parents permission? If I get involved with you, will my input matter or will everything come down to what your parents want? If, as you indicate, there's more to the story, say something like family circumstances prevented you from going. Then give the details after you've had a chance to show your devotion to Christ in other ways.

9 hours ago, Carborendum said:

You really bring up the "M" word in your first conversation with a girl?  Smooth move.  Stop that. 

This. Very much.

 
 
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18 hours ago, Serviteur du seigneur said:

Girl: Where did you serve?

Me: I'm a convert. I joined the church when I was 16 but my parents didn't allow me to go on one when the time came. Now I'm too old for that and I'm more into marriage.

Girl: Cool! Well, Serviteur, I think it's getting late and I need to go...

3 hours ago, Serviteur du seigneur said:

I have 6 years as a member, so i'm still learning.

So you're about 22? That's not too old. I am genuinely confused here.

General Handbook: Serving in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

Quote

Worthy single men ages 18–25 who are physically, mentally, and emotionally able are encouraged to serve missions.

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Just now, Carborendum said:

@SilentOne,

I'm afraid I can't see the links you posted from grammarly.

Is anyone else having trouble with the links?

I did not intend to post any links from grammarly. I've been trying and failing to edit that post since it posted, so sorry about that.

Also, I wanted to add that possibly even better than saying, "Family circumstances prevented me from serving," would be to leave it at, "I'm a convert and was unable to serve a mission."

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7 minutes ago, Serviteur du seigneur said:

Thank you all ! I think i have gathered enough very good tips from the brethren. Now i'll just ponder and pray about what would be the best decision.

Hope things work out for you bro. 

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