Technology Is Making Us Dumber

[Carborendum]

When I was a kid, I memorized everyone's phone number and address.  I memorized my SSN, DL, license plates, passwords, digits of pi... You get the picture.  Never had a problem.

Today we have phones. We keep everything on the phones.  I not only keep all my phone numbers there, but I keep my password hints on my phone.  They are, of course, hints that would make no sense to anyone else.  But I see the reminder and I get it.

But I don't memorize phone numbers anymore.  I still don't know the phone numbers of any of my kids.  Just mine and my wife's.  It took me 10 years to memorize my Texas DL# because there was never a need until last week.  Then it took me about 30 seconds to memorize it.  And I still remember a week later.  In fact, about two hours shy of exactly two weeks.

No one memorizes numbers anymore.  I understand that if we have 1000 contacts, it is beyond the ability of most people to do so for all of them.  But people don't memorize ANY.  

Now, a friend of mine just posted a thread about how schools now encourage students to do assignments with the help of AI.  I don't know how extensively such use is encouraged or to what degree the students are to make use of it and for what purpose.  But I fear that this is going to create an entire generation of people who simply don't know how to think.  On the other hand, it could also provide a great opportunity to learn more than we ever thought possible.

However, it is the nature of human beings to take the path of least resistance.  It seems reasonable to believe that this is going to become a limiting/degenerative factor in evolution.  If we put all our "mental work" into the hands of machines, will we ever know what it means to think anymore?  While we will always have the ability to project and intuit as any primate can do, mankind was meant to think deeper than that.  And that requires that we have a LOT of information stored in our brains.

[zil2]

52 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

But I fear that this is going to create an entire generation of people who simply don't know how to think.

I thought this had already been done, with the generation currently at universities... 

53 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

However, it is the nature of human beings to take the path of least resistance. 

Well, we are (ugly bags of) mostly water.

53 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

It seems reasonable to believe that this is going to become a limiting/degenerative factor in evolution.

This has been done too - on Aldea...

Can't wait to see what else the next generation comes up with...

[Carborendum]

Just now, zil2 said:

I thought this had already been done, with the generation currently at universities... 

True.  But it will be automated now.

Just now, zil2 said:

Well, we are (ugly bags of) mostly water.

Oooh!  I got that reference!  (of course, you knew I would).

Just now, zil2 said:

This has been done too - on Aldea...

Yes.  That would be a good example from fiction.

But I'm afraid that I've seen it happen in real life.  When we don't take the time to memorize, our hippocampus shrinks.  Without that, we may as well be vegetables.  Most of the country already has the memory of a cat (no offense to Klaw).

ADHD = Attention Deficit... Hey, donuts!

Just now, zil2 said:

Can't wait to see what else the next generation comes up with...

next generation: 

Well... That's kinda what I'm afraid of.

[NeuroTypical]

I don't know my wife or kids' phone numbers.  Or our DL#'s.  Or even our license plate #s.  I only know my wife's and my SSN.  My daily life consists of checking my phone to see what reminder popped up so I'll know what to do that hour.  There is also a growing number of my passwords that I don't know, because I have Chrome just pick a strong password and rely on it to remember.    I'll regularly say "Hey Siri get me home", because it picks the shortest route and takes traffic into account.  Last month, just for nostalgia's sake, I decided to get myself to a new address without "Hey Siri get me to [address].  First time in probably 2 years I did it the old fashioned way.   

That said, I don't believe I've become dumber or lost any ability to think.  There's still plenty of crap to remember and think about.  I use these tools as a performance aid, which frees up brain space for more important things.  (It is true that I have more leisure time these years than any other decade of my life.)

Something else I believe: There are astoundingly clueless and stupid people out there.  A million TikToks of random folks on the street being interviewed, and not knowing how many states in the US or other basic questions.  I've lost track of how often I've seen a variation on: "If your car is going 40 miles an hour, how long does it take you to go 40 miles?"  "Um.... 40 hours?  Oh wait - 40 minutes!"   However, I have distinct memories of people being equally clueless and stupid in the 1970's.  

What scares me more than the influence of technology aids, are the massive impact of closing schools for COVID.  Kids spent 2 years failing to learn to read/write/spell/speak/research/graduate/etc.  Everyone's numbers are lower.  Teachers are struggling, students have lower test scores and higher rates of mental illness and suicide attempts. 

[Carborendum]

19 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

That said, I don't believe I've become dumber or lost any ability to think.  There's still plenty of crap to remember and think about.  I use these tools as a performance aid, which frees up brain space for more important things.  (It is true that I have more leisure time these years than any other decade of my life.)

Something else I believe: There are astoundingly clueless and stupid people out there.  A million TikToks of random folks on the street being interviewed, and not knowing how many states in the US or other basic questions.  I've lost track of how often I've seen a variation on: "If your car is going 40 miles an hour, how long does it take you to go 40 miles?"  "Um.... 40 hours?  Oh wait - 40 minutes!"   However, I have distinct memories of people being equally clueless and stupid in the 1970's.  . 

These are completely valid points.  And, yes, having internet data for traffic patterns certainly helps us route faster transportation.  No problem there.

I'll tell you what brought this on.  I was thinking about that lawyer that got into hot water by having AI do all of its legal research for precedents.  And I think that was stupid.  He didn't even go through the steps of verifying the findings?

Notice the slight but o-so-important difference between AI searches vs the old-fashioned google searches.

• AI searches: The result is essentially an essay on what the "answer" is.
• Google searches: Gives you a wide array of possible websites that have information you might want to read to help you figure it out.

The "figuring it out" is an exercise that the brain desperately needs everyday.  Just how much can we give to machines before that muscle in our brain atrophies?  Obviously, some stuff is extremely efficient. But we still need to make judgments.  With completely AI research, we don't draw conclusions.  We just take whatever conclusion AI spits out at us.

I remember on Star Trek when Dr. Crusher asks the Enterprise computer to theorize about what they're looking at. The computer spits out "life" (see @zil2's reference to "ugly bags of mostly water").  We're really going to surrender the theorizing about life to a computer?  We might as well have a computer declare whether there is really a God or not.

Where is the encouraging the human mind to theorize? To search for the answers that pure logic simply isn't sufficient to answer?  We must learn how to seek knowledge by our own intelligence and ability to reason.  But we must also allow the complement via our heat & soul.  But if we never went through the process of logic (either before or after) then is that really knowledge?

It is one thing to follow God without necessarily knowing all the details.  But to trust a machine to tell us really meaningful things rather than facts and figures?

 

[EH12NG]

I wouldn't say it was technology that was making us dumber, I think our unhealthy relationship with convenience is where its at. 

[mikbone]

“Never memorize what you can look up in books” is a quote often attributed to Einstein, though what he actually said was somewhat different. He was asked, but did not know the speed of sound as included in the Edison Test. When this was pointed out, he said, “[I do not] carry such information in my mind since it is readily available in books. He also said, “…The value of a college education is not the learning of many facts but the training of the mind to think.” 

Edited August 25, 2023 by mikbone

[Vort]

1 hour ago, mikbone said:

“Never memorize what you can look up in books” is a quote often attributed to Einstein, though what he actually said was somewhat different. He was asked, but did not know the speed of sound as included in the Edison Test. When this was pointed out, he said, “[I do not] carry such information in my mind since it is readily available in books. He also said, “…The value of a college education is not the learning of many facts but the training of the mind to think.” 

Reminds me of an anecdote from Surely You're Joking, Mister Feynman, which I may or may not get right. One summer while he was s a graduate student, Feynman decided to do some biology research. He found lots and lots of very interesting questions that were very obvious but that no one knew why things were like that. Preparing for his end-of-summer research report, he went to the library and asked for "a map of the cat", which he found out was actually called an "anatomical chart".

Later, he made his presentation, which he started out by displaying the anatomical chart and defining some terms and features shown on the chart. A faculty member interrupted him to say, "Yes, we already know all this, just get on with the presentation." Feynman's response was, "No wonder I can catch up to you and do valid research in just one summer. You spend all your time memorizing anatomical charts when you could just go to the library and look them up."

I mean, yes, that and having an IQ of 15,000.

[The Folk Prophet]

17 hours ago, NeuroTypical said:

What scares me more than the influence of technology aids, are the massive impact of closing schools for COVID.  Kids spent 2 years failing to learn to read/write/spell/speak/research/graduate/etc.  Everyone's numbers are lower.  Teachers are struggling, students have lower test scores and higher rates of mental illness and suicide attempts. 

This implies serious problems in home and family. Which is really the primary root of most of society's problems.

[The Folk Prophet]

Every time new tech comes along people make this sort of claim. I don't buy it at all.

[LDSGator]

1 hour ago, The Folk Prophet said:

Every time new tech comes along people make this sort of claim. I don't buy it at all.

Nor do I. You also have the innate silliness of whining about technology…from your smart phone. 
 

 

[LDSGator]

I’ll never understand why people like us who enjoy forums/chat rooms complain about technology. No, seriously. Why? It’s like a movie star complaining about being recognized in public or an ER nurse saying he doesn’t like the sight of blood. 

Edited August 25, 2023 by LDSGator

[Carborendum]

3 hours ago, mikbone said:

“Never memorize what you can look up in books” is a quote often attributed to Einstein, though what he actually said was somewhat different. He was asked, but did not know the speed of sound as included in the Edison Test. When this was pointed out, he said, “[I do not] carry such information in my mind since it is readily available in books. He also said, “…The value of a college education is not the learning of many facts but the training of the mind to think.” 

And I agree.  But I believe it is often misunderstood.

This does not say:

• Memorizing things provides no benefit to the human mind.
• College education should never include any teaching of facts.

It does say:

• Many facts can be looked up in books, so it is no big deal if you don't have everything memorized.
• Learning facts may be useful.  Learning what to do with them is even more important.

I have no idea if he knew that learning facts help us learn to think.

[Vort]

4 hours ago, LDSGator said:

It's just my job, five days a week.