Entered into their exaltation

[zil2]

14 minutes ago, Emmanuel Goldstein said:

Biology does not change; Women have a set number of eggs, it was no different for Adam and Eve. Therefore, it is very unlikely that they were still having kids after a hundred years or more. 

@mikbone has already said what I would say and more.

[zil2]

1 hour ago, mikbone said:

Yup, I agree.  Dust to dust.  Its all the same stuff.  If God can turn Hydrogen into Gold via nucleosynthesis, then He can clothe a spirit with any physical matter He chooses.  So many bodies lost at sea or cremated ashes thrown to the winds do not require God to hunt down each particle and piece them back together.

I have heard, though I don't know if it's true or as simple, that the cells in our body die off and regenerate on a roughly 7 year cycle so that in 7 years (or so), not one bit of you will be the same as it is today.

[mikbone]

10 minutes ago, zil2 said:

I have heard, though I don't know if it's true or as simple, that the cells in our body die off and regenerate on a roughly 7 year cycle so that in 7 years (or so), not one bit of you will be the same as it is today.

Most of it does turn over.  But not all.  And some toxins like lead dont.  And some the stuff that we are shoveling into our bodies were never meant to be there.

Medications, chemical and genetically modified foods.  

Its crazy.  Watch that video above…

[Crypto]

This seems like a define the words you are using carefully type of thing.
Exaltation is returning to dwell in Gods presence in the Celestial Kingdom. OR "Exaltation is eternal life, the kind of life God lives." (Which to be like God requires a Body)

When Christ was on Earth, he was not "exalted" in this sense, since it required resurrection at the least, and at the most returning to the Father after entering into mortality.
The test, trial, and attaining of perfection is not complete until it has happened, even if you are perfect.
Christ "grew in wisdom, and stature, and favor with the Lord" Luke 2:52
Christ also was baptized to "Fulfil all righteousness" Matt 3:15
"It is Finished" John 19:30

As a metaphor, Getting straight A's in 4th grade may mean they are getting perfect grades, but doesn't mean they are done with school.

Christ entered into exaltation upon his returning to his Father, shortly after his resurrection. (Note when Christ says he has not ascended to his Father)
 

[mikbone]

On 1/30/2024 at 2:13 PM, Crypto said:

Exaltation is eternal life, the kind of life God lives

Yup thats my point.  Jehovah was already God.  Thus he was exalted during our pre-mortal existence.

No doubt he condescended to become mortal.  But He was still God.

When He finished the Atonement and was resurrected, he became perfect in his charge to follow the Fathers plan.

It is my position that Jehovah in the pre-mortal existence and during his mortal ministry was already way advanced in relation to where Abraham, Issac, and Jacob now reside.

And way… way… more advanced then myself.

Edited February 1 by mikbone

[Carborendum]

Just to make a point about definitions.

• exaltation
• Exaltation

[askandanswer]

On 1/30/2024 at 1:01 PM, laronius said:

If we had to check all of the boxes of what it means to be exalted I would say resurrection was the final step.

More likely an Australian passport

[mikbone]

On 1/30/2024 at 2:13 PM, Crypto said:

(Which to be like God requires a Body)

Is the Holy Ghost a God?

[laronius]

6 hours ago, askandanswer said:

More likely an Australian passport

Exaltation down under. From penal colony to heavenly abode. You might have a point there. 😃

[mikbone]

D&C 138:50 For the dead had looked upon the long absence of their spirits from their bodies as a bondage.

How does this apply to the Holy Ghost?

[zil2]

40 minutes ago, mikbone said:

D&C 138:50 For the dead had looked upon the long absence of their spirits from their bodies as a bondage.

How does this apply to the Holy Ghost?

Presumably, he's never had a body and doesn't know what he's missing.   Or maybe he's just willing to make the sacrifice until his time.

[laronius]

4 hours ago, mikbone said:

D&C 138:50 For the dead had looked upon the long absence of their spirits from their bodies as a bondage.

How does this apply to the Holy Ghost?

I think that's an interesting question because we assume his present state as a spirit allows him to perform his responsibilities. But does that mean there are things he can do that God the Father can't because He has a body?

[person0]

2 hours ago, laronius said:

I think that's an interesting question because we assume his present state as a spirit allows him to perform his responsibilities. But does that mean there are things he can do that God the Father can't because He has a body?

That is exactly what it means.  The Father can neither dwell within us, nor lay down His own life, because He is already a perfected, immortal being.  The Son offered Himself to fulfill the Father's plan, and the Holy Spirit did the same relevant to His role.

The Godhead exists out of necessity.  The Father, being perfect in every way, would not have introduced roles and members of the Godhead that He was capable of filling on His own.  This is also another reason that it can be rightly said that the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are one God.  None of them possess the capacity to bring about the salvation and exhalation of man alone.  Hence, united, they operate as one God.

[Vort]

26 minutes ago, person0 said:

That is exactly what it means.  The Father can neither dwell within us, nor lay down His own life, because He is already a perfected, immortal being.  The Son offered Himself to fulfill the Father's plan, and the Holy Spirit did the same relevant to His role.

Let us be slow to affirm that God is unable to do something. There is nothing (meaningful) that God cannot do. Nothing. God cannot sin, but we understand this to mean that God is infinitely far beyond any desire to sin, that the very idea of a "sinful God" is an oxymoron, and not that God is completely unable to choose to act as he sees fit.

The Holy Spirit is God entering into us. God the Father, God the Son. It is a literal thing. If we don't understand it, it's because the mechanisms and definitions involved have not been publicly revealed.

[mikbone]

4 hours ago, laronius said:

I think that's an interesting question because we assume his present state as a spirit allows him to perform his responsibilities. But does that mean there are things he can do that God the Father can't because He has a body?

I’m pretty sure that the Father wouldn’t ask anyone to do anything that He Himself couldn’t do. John 5:19

He would obviously give opportunities to his children to become more like him.

Interestingly, during Christ’s mortal ministry, the Holy Ghost was able to take some time off.  Perhaps Christ was doing double duty during (alliteration intended) those years.  Perhaps, Jehovah had trained as a ‘holy ghost’ prior to becoming our Savior.

“For some reason not fully explained in the scriptures, the Holy Ghost did not operate in the fulness among the Jews during the years of Jesus’ mortal sojourn (John 7:39; 16:7). “  Bible Dictionary - under the heading Holy Ghost.

The reflexive property of the following statement would give the possibility some credibility.

“Joseph also said that the Holy Ghost is now in a state of Probation which if he should perform in righteousness he may pass through the same or a similar course of things that the Son has.“ Joseph Smith Jr., Nauvoo Illinois August 27, 1843, as recorded by Franklin D. Richards in Scriptural Items.

It’s like a missionary.  First you are a trainee.  Then a junior companion.  Then a trainer.  Then a district leader.  Then a zone leader.  Maybe even an assistant to the president.  

Edited February 5 by mikbone

[person0]

33 minutes ago, Vort said:

Let us be slow to affirm that God is unable to do something. There is nothing (meaningful) that God cannot do. Nothing. God cannot sin, but we understand this to mean that God is infinitely far beyond any desire to sin, that the very idea of a "sinful God" is an oxymoron, and not that God is completely unable to choose to act as he sees fit.

The Holy Spirit is God entering into us. God the Father, God the Son. It is a literal thing. If we don't understand it, it's because the mechanisms and definitions involved have not been publicly revealed.

I get what you are saying and I believe this is mostly a lexical disagreement.  I will also argue that, in my view, what you are saying here is meaningfully equivalent to what I said.  I will add the clarifying note that, if there is anything the Father cannot Himself do alone, it is only because the capacity to do so is not something that exists within reality.

If anyone needs them, I am happy to provide relevant passages from the scriptures that relate to this discussion, my position, and why I am willing to be more explicit in the way I said what I did (I know Vort already knows them).

[Vort]

19 minutes ago, person0 said:

I get what you are saying and I believe this is mostly a lexical disagreement.  I will also argue that, in my view, what you are saying here is meaningfully equivalent to what I said.  I will add the clarifying note that, if there is anything the Father cannot Himself do alone, it is only because the capacity to do so is not something that exists within reality.

If anyone needs them, I am happy to provide relevant passages from the scriptures that relate to this discussion, my position, and why I am willing to be more explicit in the way I said what I did (I know Vort already knows them).

Needless to say, everything that we have been taught in scripture about the Holy Ghost is completely true. But we have not explicitly been told the nature or identity of the Holy Ghost. If we understood that, I feel quite confident that we would understand what it means for the Holy Ghost to enter into our hearts and person, and we would find no conflict at all between our doctrinal teachings and actual reality.

That said, I think that speculating on the nature or identity of the Holy Ghost is an unwise and potentially dangerous activity. (Speaking generally, and not pointing my words toward anyone on this or any other forum.) My opinion is that we would do better to live the gospel to the best of our ability and not worry about such specifics, things that some call "deep doctrine" but that are really just mechanical explanations that, in the end, are of much less importance than things like faith, repentance, baptism, and reception of the Holy Ghost.

[laronius]

2 hours ago, person0 said:

That is exactly what it means.  The Father can neither dwell within us, nor lay down His own life, because He is already a perfected, immortal being.  The Son offered Himself to fulfill the Father's plan, and the Holy Spirit did the same relevant to His role.

The Godhead exists out of necessity.  The Father, being perfect in every way, would not have introduced roles and members of the Godhead that He was capable of filling on His own.  This is also another reason that it can be rightly said that the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are one God.  None of them possess the capacity to bring about the salvation and exhalation of man alone.  Hence, united, they operate as one God.

Jehovah had to gain a body in order to become our Savior. It wasn't a glorified body but it was a body nonetheless.

As for the Holy Ghost being able to do things, relative to our salvation, that the Father can't do, the jury is still out for me. Like @Vort I'm not ready to definitively put limitations on God's abilities but at the same time why have such a "position" in the Godhood if our Father in Heaven can already do that. 

And my question, while interested in the actual answer to it, was partly rhetorical as a consideration to the relationship between bondage and a lack of a body, as @mikboneasked.