Trump just won the election

[NeuroTypical]

8 hours ago, Phoenix_person said:

Elon for turning Twitter into a Nazi-infested cesspool

3 hours ago, Phoenix_person said:

Yes, there are some bad eggs on "my side" acting in poor faith in the name of freeing Palestine, but the dogwhistles on the right are getting increasingly louder.

I'm about 80% in agreement with your general gripes about social media being a dangerous place full of lowbrow evil.  It's like YouTube comment sections have always been bottom feeding poison, but now everyone can see it.  But even though I spend time on Twitter, I see hardly any nazi stuff, even though I follow the IDF and other pro-Israel and mil opiners and read their comments sections.  Where are you seeing it all?

"dogwhistles on the right" - I'm still hazy on what that means.  A dogwhistle is something that you blow into, and only the dogs can hear the noise.  So the claim is that people on the right are talking in ways that only others on the right can understand?  About what exactly?  I keep hearing about the 'alt-right nazi fascists' associated with the word, and I've been called such things more times than I can count on FB and X over the last 3 years. 

I guess I need a little help understanding you.  I'm on the right.  Do I send out dogwhistles?  What are they about?  Who on the right hears me, what messages to they receive, and how can you understand them if they're a dogwhistle?

[NeuroTypical]

2 hours ago, Phoenix_person said:

As much as I get frustrated by this place sometines, it's nice to have somewhere I can go to discuss things like the economy and health care reform without being called a Jewish pedo cuck.

lol same.  Except here are things that people have called me or said to me.  (If any of them sound tame, try adding the word 'f*ck*ng' in front of it, because it's usually there.)

- Nazi Bootlicker
- Brownshirt
- Actual Nazi
- Alt-right racist [beep]
- Transphobe who wants to genocide trans kids
- I've been invited to drink bleach and die in a hole. 
- I've been invited to unalive myself.
- A buddy of a left-leaning buddy on FB threatened to get me fired from my job and ruin my family. The shared buddy ended up apologizing for him, defending him with "he's had some hard times lately"

@Phoenix_person, I appreciate the crap out of how civil and polite you've been.  Mormons in general, and Thirdhour is no exception, are mostly on the right side of center, and you're in the minority here.  I'm grateful to have someone on the left with some brain cells to rub together, willing to engage me in civil debate.  Even as we run up to the election.  Especially as we run up to the election.

I had a leftie FB arguing buddy for years on FB.  Unfortunately, his PTSD got the worst of him during the George Floyd stuff when everything was on fire and gunshots were going off.  He became nastier and nastier, pursuing me as I tried to stop arguing with him.  I finally had to block him.   I'm glad to find another leftie with which to argue.

 

Edited October 18, 2024 by NeuroTypical

[LDSGator]

7 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

I'm about 80% in agreement with your general gripes about social media being a dangerous place full of lowbrow evil. 

I just don’t buy that. I’ve met so many great people on social media, including a friend whose wedding I was in as best man. I also joined the church largely due to social media. 

Social media is what you make of it. 

[LDSGator]

2 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

person, I appreciate the crap out of how civil and polite you've been.  Mormons in general, and Thirdhour is no exception, is mostly on the right side of center, and you're in the minority here.  I'm grateful to have someone on the left with some brain cells to rub together, willing to engage me in civil debate.  Even as we run up to the election.  Especially as we run up to the election

Perfectly said. 

[NeuroTypical]

14 minutes ago, LDSGator said:

Social media is what you make of it. 

I totally agree.  I used to use all of it as a place to argue religion and politics.  After FB gave me an account violation for sharing a New York Post article, I mostly gave up on using FB for that purpose.  Now this place, X and TikTok and some other places, where I can post anonymously, is where I do most of my arguing.  The anonymous stuff is sort of a requirement these days, with all the death threats and invitations to fight and doxxing and threats to contact my employer and all.

Edited October 18, 2024 by NeuroTypical

[LDSGator]

1 hour ago, NeuroTypical said:

After FB gave me an account violation for sharing a New York Post

I got zinged for one too many dark memes and numerous drug references  

[LDSGator]

@NeuroTypical

[Phoenix_person]

2 hours ago, NeuroTypical said:

I'm about 80% in agreement with your general gripes about social media being a dangerous place full of lowbrow evil.  It's like YouTube comment sections have always been bottom feeding poison, but now everyone can see it.  But even though I spend time on Twitter, I see hardly any nazi stuff, even though I follow the IDF and other pro-Israel and mil opiners and read their comments sections.  Where are you seeing it all?

Mostly in the interactions of notable people and accounts that are deemed "woke". A lot of my Twitter use intersects with my organizing work, so I see the nastiness quite a bit. I also follow several members of sports media, and you see it there too,  especially with women/POC/WOC. Honestly, the fact that you're a conservative, straight white male might be the reason you're not seeing it as much. It happens IRL as well. As I said, I've been doing a lot of door-knocking to try to have real, offline conversations with people about the issues on next month's ballot. I live in a fairly liberal (small) city and our lists don't have known Republican voters on them. My door knock experiences have been overwhelmingly positive. Even the people who clearly have no interest in talking to me are polite about it. Always. The women in my organization aren't always so fortunate, especially the two black Muslim women who sometimes join us. As much as we'd love to send them out together, we've found that it's better to separate them and send them with a white man, otherwise they're likely to get the police called on them in some neighborhoods. I think it speaks a lot to their character that they keep coming out with us.

2 hours ago, NeuroTypical said:

"dogwhistles on the right" - I'm still hazy on what that means.  A dogwhistle is something that you blow into, and only the dogs can hear the noise.  So the claim is that people on the right are talking in ways that only others on the right can understand?  About what exactly?  I keep hearing about the 'alt-right nazi fascists' associated with the word, and I've been called such things more times than I can count on FB and X over the last 3 years. 

The general idea is that the dog-whistler uses terms (often numbers) that are meaningless in a vacuum, but have interpretations known to other dog-whistlers. Here's one of the more common examples:

2 hours ago, NeuroTypical said:

lol same.  Except here are things that people have called me or said to me.  (If any of them sound tame, try adding the word 'f*ck*ng' in front of it, because it's usually there.)

- Nazi Bootlicker
- Brownshirt
- Actual Nazi
- Alt-right racist [beep]
- Transphobe who wants to genocide trans kids
- I've been invited to drink bleach and die in a hole. 
- I've been invited to unalive myself.
- A buddy of a left-leaning buddy on FB threatened to get me fired from my job and ruin my family. The shared buddy ended up apologizing for him, defending him with "he's had some hard times lately"

I believe it, unfortunately. I think it speaks volumes to the toxic nature of internet discourse and the importance of examining your own side from time to time. And yes, I try my best to call out undue hostility on my side as best I can and fill my cyber circle with people who recognize the harm of such behavior.

2 hours ago, NeuroTypical said:

@Phoenix_person, I appreciate the crap out of how civil and polite you've been.  Mormons in general, and Thirdhour is no exception, are mostly on the right side of center, and you're in the minority here.  I'm grateful to have someone on the left with some brain cells to rub together, willing to engage me in civil debate.  Even as we run up to the election.  Especially as we run up to the election.

Likewise. I'm genuinely bummed that I wasn't able to meet you this past Spring. Probably would've been easier if half a day hadn't been needed for snow removal at my grandmother's house. 😅

2 hours ago, NeuroTypical said:

I had a leftie FB arguing buddy for years on FB.  Unfortunately, his PTSD got the worst of him during the George Floyd stuff when everything was on fire and gunshots were going off.  He became nastier and nastier, pursuing me as I tried to stop arguing with him.  I finally had to block him.  I'm glad to find another leftie with which to argue.

I'm very sorry to hear that. Things got a lot worse for me during the pandemic as well, and I lost my wife and 45% of my epidermal tissue because of it. More people than we realize are one disaster away from a complete mental collapse, and there's no shortage of disasters these days.

1 hour ago, LDSGator said:

@NeuroTypical

YUP. I have to remind myself of that constantly.

[Vort]

2 hours ago, Phoenix_person said:

Mostly in the interactions of notable people and accounts that are deemed "woke". A lot of my Twitter use intersects with my organizing work, so I see the nastiness quite a bit. I also follow several members of sports media, and you see it there too,  especially with women/POC/WOC. Honestly, the fact that you're a conservative, straight white male might be the reason you're not seeing it as much. It happens IRL as well. As I said, I've been doing a lot of door-knocking to try to have real, offline conversations with people about the issues on next month's ballot. I live in a fairly liberal (small) city and our lists don't have known Republican voters on them. My door knock experiences have been overwhelmingly positive. Even the people who clearly have no interest in talking to me are polite about it. Always. The women in my organization aren't always so fortunate, especially the two black Muslim women who sometimes join us. As much as we'd love to send them out together, we've found that it's better to separate them and send them with a white man, otherwise they're likely to get the police called on them in some neighborhoods. I think it speaks a lot to their character that they keep coming out with us.

The general idea is that the dog-whistler uses terms (often numbers) that are meaningless in a vacuum, but have interpretations known to other dog-whistlers. Here's one of the more common examples:

I believe it, unfortunately. I think it speaks volumes to the toxic nature of internet discourse and the importance of examining your own side from time to time. And yes, I try my best to call out undue hostility on my side as best I can and fill my cyber circle with people who recognize the harm of such behavior.

Likewise. I'm genuinely bummed that I wasn't able to meet you this past Spring. Probably would've been easier if half a day hadn't been needed for snow removal at my grandmother's house. 😅

I'm very sorry to hear that. Things got a lot worse for me during the pandemic as well, and I lost my wife and 45% of my epidermal tissue because of it. More people than we realize are one disaster away from a complete mental collapse, and there's no shortage of disasters these days.

YUP. I have to remind myself of that constantly.

And people say those on the right are conspiracy theorists.

Pay close attention, people. What PP has shared above is exactly—EXACTLY—what liberals think of you. It's not just PP's delusion. It's SOP for the left. Believe it. They despise you more than words can convey.

[Phoenix_person]

2 hours ago, Vort said:

And people say those on the right are conspiracy theorists.

Your church warns of "secret combinations". But surely those secret combinations could never be conservative extremists, right? The ADL info is easier to verify than any "evidence" I've seen that Biden stole the 2020 election. 

One of the more confounding characteristics of dog whistles (since @NeuroTypical wants an education) is that a good dog whistle is subtle enough to be dismissed as conspiracy when challenged as such. The Lindell connection is just one example of the use of that particular dog whistle. Being openly Nazi isn't as taboo as it once was, but there are still a lot of sympathizers in hiding. They use dog whistles like 1488, Norse/viking symbolism*, and numerical references to the Holocaust to find each other. 

*This is a perfect example of a flawless dog whistle with lots of deniability. No, I don't believe that Amon Amarth, Minnesota NFL fans, and the entire MCU are Nazis. But there's a LOT of Nordic symbolism used in Nazi spaces. Some have been lost to the neo-Nazis completely, like the Sonnenrad and Othala rune. Others, like Mjolnir and the Valknut, are more ambiguous. My favorite jacket is an Ensiferum hoodie that has both symbols on it. I'm not ignorant of the problematic connotations, but I live in a part of the country with a lot of actual Viking roots, so I feel like I can get away with it. 😅 And at the end of the day, there's zero reason to suspect that the Finnish dudes in Ensiferum are Nazis, so there's that.

2 hours ago, Vort said:

They despise you more than words can convey.

Unless you're an actual Nazi, this statement is unequivocally false. I don't believe that the average Republican voter is a Nazi sympathizer. A majority of people on my side don't believe that, just as I trust that a majority of conservatives don't believe that people like me are pedophiles just because we vote for Democrats. That being said, if the political candidate I planned to vote for had the support of actual Nazis, I would want to know why. And if it got enough visibility, I would expect the candidate to disavow those supporters. (FWIW, I don't think anyone actually thought Richard Spencer was serious). It worries me that the dude that apparently has made some Nazis feel safe being openly Nazi (remember Charlottesville?) doesn't seem to want to lose the Nazi vote. It also worries me that the Nazi movement is growing at a time when misinformation is easy to spread and outrage is easy to provoke. 

I'm also an adult and realize that people have many reasons for voting the way they do. My only hope is that the people who vote make the most informed decisions they can. 

Edited October 19, 2024 by Phoenix_person

[JohnsonJones]

15 hours ago, Phoenix_person said:

Thanks, I'm well aware that my mental faculties leave much to be desired. I have permanent physical reminders of it, in fact, and I receive substantial VA benefits due to the link between my mental health decline and head trauma I received 20 years ago in Iraq.

 

You had probably said it in the past and I probably have been told this already, but when reading this I did not realize you were a veteran until just now.

Thank you for your service and sacrifice.  I hope the VA is able to help you as much as you deserve.  I've heard terrible things about how good they are over the past decades, but I hope that they can at least help in some way to aid you in dealing with the difficulties that it sounds that you deal with from your service. 

[Phoenix_person]

28 minutes ago, JohnsonJones said:

You had probably said it in the past and I probably have been told this already, but when reading this I did not realize you were a veteran until just now.

Thank you for your service and sacrifice.  I hope the VA is able to help you as much as you deserve.  I've heard terrible things about how good they are over the past decades, but I hope that they can at least help in some way to aid you in dealing with the difficulties that it sounds that you deal with from your service. 

Thanks. I heard horror stories about the VA as well, which is why I didn't give them the time of day until 8 years after I got out. I've had some headaches with prior authorization and other insurance/billing issues, but I've never had a hard time being seen. 

[LDSGator]

17 hours ago, NeuroTypical said:

Nazi Bootlicker
- Brownshirt
- Actual Nazi
- Alt-right racist [beep]
- Transphobe who wants to genocide trans kids
- I've been invited to drink bleach and die in a hole. 
- I've been invited to unalive myself.
- A buddy of a left-leaning buddy on FB threatened to get me fired from my job and ruin my family. The shared buddy ended up apologizing for him, defending him with "he's had some hard times lately"

The best thing to do is to change the narrative. Embrace being called those names and make jokes about them with friends. I’ve been called “sheer evil” and I liked it so much I use it as part of my Facebook bio. 

[NeuroTypical]

13 hours ago, Phoenix_person said:

The general idea is that the dog-whistler uses terms (often numbers) that are meaningless in a vacuum, but have interpretations known to other dog-whistlers. Here's one of the more common examples:

I appreciate the education.  Almost all of this is new information to me, but it gives me a place to start doing some research.  When arguing online in the cesspool, I'm occasionally told that I'm showing up with racist or fascist or genocidal dogwhistles.  But I know nothing about those numbers, or the My Pillow guy (other than I know he weirds out folks on the left).

On it's surface, a lot of this really sounds like the left-wing version of stuff like Qanon beliefs about how Hillary Clinton and John Podesta run a secret global pedophile ring, and the proof is their use of the term "cheeze pizza".   I've seen stuff like this since my childhood.  The '70's were full of commie plots to fluoridate our drinking water.  The '80's were full of commie plots to fake the fall of the USSR, but now they were working behind the scenes in the UN and Greenpeace.  In the '90's I encountered actual humans who were sharing stories about being abducted by mormon leaders who were reptilian lizard people.  And as far as I could tell, they weren't joking or lying.  Then folks of this mindset got scared about Y2k, which apparently had been engineered by either the Rockefellers or the Japanese to get a virus into every computer system in America.  In 2010 the worry was about 2012,    4chan is full of kids who want to see the world burn, and relish in their ability to get earworms into our grandparents.  They've contributed to qanon, tidepods, birds aren't real, the bronies, and the incel movement.

 

9 hours ago, Phoenix_person said:

a good dog whistle is subtle enough to be dismissed as conspiracy when challenged as such.

Ooof.  I'm trying hard to give that statement respect, but I'm really struggling.  It's just that I've always heard stuff like "You can tell a commie because they always have a reasonable explanation about how they're not a commie".  Variations of "You can tell she's a witch, because of how innocent her actions look."   That said: I guess we all dismiss things, and accept other things.   You mentioned secret combinations.  I think/read/think much about Ezra Taft Benson and other church leader's writings on that stuff, and modern-day Gadianton Robbers.   Also, I'm weirded out about the timing of Russian twitter bots infecting American notions about vaccinations, happening a year and a half before COVID showed up.  Such things are hard to dismiss.  And my church revamping it's curriculum to "home-centered, church-supported" just ONE FREAKING YEAR before we all went into government-enforced quarantine lockdown isn't helping me see coincidences as just coincidences. 

So yeah, um, I guess I'm ok resisting 1488 and the people who like what it means.  My dad did it in WWII as he participated in the Battle of the Bulge, when they were all in one place and easy to find and defeat.   If I ever see one, I'll try to figure out what they think about principles of constitutional conservatism.  I'm guessing they don't think much about them, which means they're nowhere close to my side of the political fence.   That said, Imma google up "1488 4chan" before I come to any conclusions about Mike Lindell. 

 

14 hours ago, Phoenix_person said:

I try my best to call out undue hostility on my side as best I can and fill my cyber circle with people who recognize the harm of such behavior.

Me too.  I'm a fan of cleaning up your own back yard. 

 

[NeuroTypical]

12 minutes ago, LDSGator said:

The best thing to do is to change the narrative. Embrace being called those names and make jokes about them with friends. I’ve been called “sheer evil” and I liked it so much I use it as part of my Facebook bio. 

bro self-effacing humor is my middle name!   The term "Mormon" is the dictionary definition of a reclaimed slur! 

Fun story: We use Microsoft Teams at my work, and last year they added functionality to allow people to add their pronouns.  It's a text field, not a drop-down list.   So meetings be like:

Bob (he/him)
Mary (she/her)
Tynniffyr (she/her)
Matt (he/him)
Neurotypical (all edge/no point)

 

[LDSGator]

5 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

Neurotypical (all edge/no point)

Lol!! That’s awesome. 

[Ironhold]

23 hours ago, NeuroTypical said:

"dogwhistles on the right" - I'm still hazy on what that means.  A dogwhistle is something that you blow into, and only the dogs can hear the noise.  So the claim is that people on the right are talking in ways that only others on the right can understand?  About what exactly?  I keep hearing about the 'alt-right nazi fascists' associated with the word, and I've been called such things more times than I can count on FB and X over the last 3 years. 

For several decades now, various left-wing groups have claimed that various words, phrases, and slogans used by right-wing politicians were code-words meant to incite various hate groups and violent actors that the left believed were somehow lurking in the shadows waiting to pounce. 

Even when the left couldn't actually say *what* those words and slogans were, they were *certain* such code-words were in use and that we had to fear anyone who wasn't overtly left-wing because it must surely mean the person was up to something sinister. 

In extreme instances, the left would fabricate new definitions of words that nobody on the right was actually using. For example, after Trump won in 2016 several hardcore leftists were falsely claiming that "snowflake" was a reference to the ashes from the crematoriums in Germany during the Nazi era, and so if anyone called a person a "snowflake" it meant that they were wanting to kill them. In reality, the term had been in use as a pejorative since the late 1990s, having first appeared in the film "Fight Club" and most likely being a response to the overuse of the "special snowflake" metaphor in "character-building" educational material that had been introduced in the public school system earlier in the decade; most people who used that term thus used it to mean that they felt a person was too emotionally fragile, physically soft, and ego-driven to be of value to society. 

Ultimately, this nonsense is all just evidence that quite a few people on the left see the right as a collective bogeyman and fear those who hold views opposite theirs.

[Ironhold]

23 hours ago, NeuroTypical said:

lol same.  Except here are things that people have called me or said to me.  (If any of them sound tame, try adding the word 'f*ck*ng' in front of it, because it's usually there.)

Scenario - You and someone else are having a polite conversation about school lunch reform proposals. You feel that a recent federal revision to the school lunch guidelines was woefully misguided because it overlooked the needs of student athletes, individuals from lower-income families, and other kids who need the extra calories delivered in a healthy fashion. The person you're speaking with is more optimistic about how well the program is going and believes that this series of oversights will soon be corrected. Then a third party barges in to the conversation to declare that such-and-such group of people are all "Nazis" and anyone who doesn't immediately denounce them then and there is likewise a "Nazi". 

Yeah, that happened in early 2017. Someone who couldn't get over Trump winning kept disrupting every last ongoing conversation on a news & politics group I was in to demand that we all declare whoever his political foe of the day a "Nazi" or else it meant that we were just as evil. He eventually had to be shown the door. 

[NeuroTypical]

Oh yeah - I also forgot the whole "ok" hand sign.   

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/15/us/ok-sign-white-power.html

The talk seemed to dry up after all the pictures of Oprah and Obama and other black folk using it like normal people.

 

[Ironhold]

52 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

Oh yeah - I also forgot the whole "ok" hand sign.   

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/15/us/ok-sign-white-power.html

The talk seemed to dry up after all the pictures of Oprah and Obama and other black folk using it like normal people.

 

The whole OK sign bit started when a controversial niche left-wing media outlet known as The Root first published an article claiming that it was actually a white power symbol.

Not long after the whole frenzy started, a poster on a certain infamous internet forum claimed credit, saying that they fabricated the story and fed it to a series of niche media outlets as a test to see who would or wouldn't go for it. If this person was telling the truth, then it means that The Root never fact-checked the story before running it. 

[JohnsonJones]

There are terms that have been used to signal to others about secret societies and  organizations.  What @Phoenix_person said regarding 1488 and some of the other signalling is actually true.  People waving Nazi flags, though it may be a mystery to you, are generally pretty racist. 

It also is not a mystery that currently (it has changed from side to side and left to right, they haven't always been in support of the Republican candidate and at times, were very much in support of the Democrats a few decades ago) Neo-Nazi's, KKK members, Arian nations, and other racists groups are mostly supporting Donald Trump in his campaign for presidency.  With Joe Biden being forced out an Kamala Harris taking on the candidacy for the Democrat Party, they probably are even more in support of Donald Trump these days. 

I don't know why someone would be ignorant of this.  It is not a secret in general, and for the most part has even been pointed out via conservative groups that try to distance them from such people.

And that is probably the important thing for the discussion.  It is not that certain groups are gravitating towards Donald Trump, but that not everyone who supports Donald Trump as president is part of those groups or thinks in that manner. 

There are groups that actively discriminate against Asians and Native Americans that are supporting President Harris.  That's probably a more hidden facet of the situation surrounding the current election than the racist groups supporting Donald Trump.  Most Democrats and others do not agree with those groups that discriminate in that manner either. 

Trying to dissuade each side that there are not secret organizations which seek to do others harm hiding in their mists probably is a task in futility.  Neither side wants to admit the horrible people that they garner to try to improve their chances at winning.  This election is not going to be pretty or nice. 

On a connected but different note

There are many things that Donald Trump has said that probably should alarm people and that have been brought up.  I have made no secret that I think he is an Anti-Christ if not The Anti-Christ.  He's a pretty wicked man and not someone I would trust.

In the same breath, there are many things that alarm me about Kamala Harris.  To me, it appeared that there was basically a coup in the Democrat party which forced Harris out.  It was a media tsunami of those trying to push him out, and that same storm of media has been trying to force us to believe Kamala Harris is the chosen one.  They ignore scandals which she has been part of or participated in along with questionable items regarding her husband.  

Some people will vote for Harris, not because they like her, but because they probably feel that to choose Trump will actually cause them harm (and it may, depending on who they are.  If they are legal immigrants, or even legal citizens who were born in the United States, but have parents that are illegal...I'd probably be very alarmed at some of Donald Trumps statements and be voting for Harris simply so my family can survive, even if I hated her).  The media seems to take it in stride that people will vote for Harris simply because they fear what Trump may do to them if he wins.

However, many people don't like being pushed.  Many people don't like the media trying to tell them how to think.  Many people are upset at how the media just supposes they are sheep to be herded whatever way the media likes.  On top of that there are those that have valid concerns about the economy and how they are going to survive if things persist in the same manner as they have over the past four years.  It doesn't matter how good the government says the economy is doing if you are struggling to keep a roof over your head and facing hunger because you don't have enough money to buy food.  These people have valid concerns and many do not feel Harris is giving adequate answers on how to solve the issue (the worst way, though it may work, would be a recession or depression with massive deflation occurring...which would be a very hard and harsh way for things to get cheaper).

It doesn't matter if the Media says everything is sunshine and roses if your personal experience is showing that this is absolutely not true.  The Media can only mask things so far before people don't believe them and instead trust their own experiences in this economy. 

So, this election is far closer than anyone probably felt it would be or should be...at least in the polls currently.  I think the media has taken their power for granted, pushed too hard against what people want, and ignored the true problems that are happening in the US currently.  That spells problems for the Democrats. 

They are running out of time to correct their course because right now, I don't see them having a large enough margin to guarantee a win, and that should scare the wits out of the Democrat Party.  That doesn't mean a guaranteed win for the Republican party by far.  They probably should be seeing if they can skirt by the skin of their teeth if possible, because it could very easily be that the Democrats pull it off and may even get an electoral landslide if the Republicans aren't careful. 

I still think Trump is going to win, either fairly or by cheating...but we will see. 

Just like the Beast, people thought he was dead (politically) and gone.  But, if he wins he will be like a resurrected creature that has risen from the dead, and with how people seem to worship him...well...it sure seems like it could be a fulfillment of prophecy.   There is a reason we are warned in the scriptures how even the elect will be deceived.  If not him, I expect something or someone like him will be an echo of this, as the one who is slain and rises afterwards will need to be someone religious people (who you would expect would know better) will be enthusiastic about and try to claim is the righteous choice no matter how wicked the individual really is. 

 

PS:  And yes, I know that the historically astute may also point out to Teddy Roosevelt...but he never was worshiped by the Religious in way that he could do no wrong...and never had a golden idol built of himself for them to wander their gaze at. 

Edited October 20, 2024 by JohnsonJones

[LDSGator]

1 hour ago, JohnsonJones said:

Democrats pull it off and may even get an electoral landslide if the Republicans aren't careful. 

I don’t think it’ll be an electoral landslide, but I think Harris will soundly win. I don’t see Trump winning PA, MI, and Wisconsin this year. 

[Phoenix_person]

6 hours ago, JohnsonJones said:

There are groups that actively discriminate against Asians and Native Americans that are supporting President Harris.  That's probably a more hidden facet of the situation surrounding the current election than the racist groups supporting Donald Trump.  Most Democrats and others do not agree with those groups that discriminate in that manner either. 

Dick Cheney and a slew of old guard Republicans are supporting Harris. The old guard Democrats suddenly don't seem to care about associations. And if they don't shut up about Project 2025, they may get a rude awakening about the stance of their newfound supporters on it. It actually really irks me that Harris has made P2025 such a central talking point of her campaign. The contents of that plan are supported my most conservatives, MAGA and Harris-voting "RINOs" alike. The Heritage Foundation just consolidated it into a single policy document and gave it a name. Those policies aren't leaving the GOP platform any time soon. 

[Ironhold]

6 hours ago, LDSGator said:

I don’t think it’ll be an electoral landslide, but I think Harris will soundly win. I don’t see Trump winning PA, MI, and Wisconsin this year. 

It's my understanding that several key labor unions are seeing their members split instead of being solidly Democratic-supporting, which is why the Teamsters failed to officially endorse anyone this time around. 

The simple truth of the matter is that Harris is coming off as dangerously out of touch with what the working class is dealing with, and there is evidence that the youngest generation of eligible voters is just as concerned about this as their parents and grandparents. We could see a proverbial horse race provided that nothing untoward happens. 

[NeuroTypical]

5 hours ago, Phoenix_person said:

Dick Cheney and a slew of old guard Republicans are supporting Harris. 

It sounds like such a reasonable thing.  It's hard to judge someone from a distance, so you rely on people who have known a person best.  Who better to know Trump, than people who were actually in his administration but now support (and sometimes actively campaign for) Harris?

Trump has a pretty good answer.  "Yes, and I fired most of those people".  I remember his 4 years, and how it seemed a week didn't go by without him firing some senior person and making a big public stink about it.  

His promise was to go drain the swamp.  When I look for reasonable things, I'd be more surprised if establishment leaders from both parties didn't fight back so hard.  Occams razor and all that.  Of course the Cheneys and Bushes hate him, for the same reason any ruling dynasty hates a fresh new disruptor coming to kick 'em out of power.